Equality in Islam?

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van
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Equality in Islam?

Post #1

Post by van »

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091215/ap_ ... harassment

Harassment across Arab world drives women inside

By SARAH EL DEEB, Associated Press Writer Sarah El Deeb, Associated Press Writer – Tue Dec 15, 8:43 am ET
CAIRO – The sexual harassment of women in the streets, schools and work places of the Arab world is driving them to cover up and confine themselves to their homes, said activists at the first-ever regional conference addressing the once taboo topic.

Activists from 17 countries across the region met in Cairo for a two-day conference ending Monday and concluded that harassment was unchecked across the region because laws don't punish it, women don't report it and the authorities ignore it.

The harassment, including groping and verbal abuse, is a daily experience women in the region face and makes them wary of going into public spaces, whether it's the streets or jobs, the participants said. It happens regardless of what women are wearing.

With more and more women in schools, the workplace and politics, roles have changed but often traditional attitudes have not. Experts said in some places, like Egypt, harassment appears sometimes to be out of vengeance, from men blaming women for denied work opportunities.

Amal Madbouli, who wears the conservative face veil or niqab, told The Associated Press that despite her dress, she is harassed and described how a man came after her in the streets of her neighborhood.

"He hissed at me and kept asking me if I wanted to go with him to a quieter area, and to give him my phone number," said Madbouli, a mother of two. "This is a national security issue. I am a mother, and I want to be reassured when my daughters go out on the streets."

Statistics on harassment in the region have until recently been nonexistent, but a series of studies presented at the conference hinted at the widespread nature of the problem.

As many as 90 percent of Yemeni women say they have been harassed, while in Egypt, out of a sample of 1,000, 83 percent reported being verbally or physically abused.

A study in Lebanon reported that more than 30 percent of women said they had been harassed there.

"We are facing a phenomena that is limiting women's right to move ... and is threatening women's participation in all walks of life," said Nehad Abul Komsan, an Egyptian activist who organized the event with funding from the U.N. and the Swedish development agency.

Harassment has long been a problem in Mideast nations. But it was little discussed until three years ago, when blogs gave posted amateur videos showing a crowd of men assaulting women in downtown Cairo during a major Muslim holiday in one of the most shocking harassment incidents in the region.

The public outcry sparked an unprecedented public acknowledgment of the problem in Egypt and elsewhere in the region, and drove the Egyptian government to consider two draft bills addressing sexual harassment.

Sexual harassment, including verbal and physical assault, has been specifically criminalized in only half a dozen Arab countries over the past five years. Most of the 22 Arab states outlaw overtly violent acts like rape or lewd acts in public areas, according to a study by Abul Komsan.

Participants at the conference said men are threatened by an increasingly active female labor force, with conservatives laying the blame for harassment on women's dress and behavior.

In Syria, men from traditional homes go shopping in the market place instead of female family members to spare them harassment, said Sherifa Zuhur, a Lebanese-American academic at the conference.

Abul Komsan described how one of the victims of harassment she interviewed told her she had taken on the full-face veil to stave off the hassle.

"She told me 'I have put on the niqab. By God, what more can I do so they leave me alone,'" she said, quoting the woman. Some even said they were reconsidering going to work or school because of the constant harassment in the streets and on public transpiration.

Where segregation between the sexes is the norm and women are sheltered by religious or tribal customs, cases of sexual harassment are still common at homes and in the times when women must venture out, whether to markets, hospitals or government offices.

In Yemen, where nearly all women are covered from head to toe, activist Amal Basha said 90 percent of women in a published study reported harassment, specifically pinching.

"The religious leaders are always blaming the women, making them live in a constant state of fear because out there, someone is following them," she said.

If a harassment case is reported in Yemen, Basha added, traditional leaders interfere to cover it up, remove the evidence or terrorize the victim.

In Saudi Arabia, another country where women cover themselves completely and are nearly totally segregated from men in public life, women report harassment as well, according to Saudi activist Majid al-Eissa.

His organization, the National Family Safety Program, has been helping draft a law criminalizing violence against women in the conservative kingdom, where flirting can often cross the line into outright assault. Discussion of the law begins Tuesday.

"It will take time especially in this part of the world to absorb the gender mixture and the role each gender can play in society," he said. "We are coping with changes (of modern life), except in our minds."

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Re: Equality in Islam?

Post #2

Post by TrueReligion »

van wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091215/ap_ ... harassment

Harassment across Arab world drives women inside

By SARAH EL DEEB, Associated Press Writer Sarah El Deeb, Associated Press Writer – Tue Dec 15, 8:43 am ET
CAIRO – The sexual harassment of women in the streets, schools and work places of the Arab world is driving them to cover up and confine themselves to their homes, said activists at the first-ever regional conference addressing the once taboo topic.

Activists from 17 countries across the region met in Cairo for a two-day conference ending Monday and concluded that harassment was unchecked across the region because laws don't punish it, women don't report it and the authorities ignore it.

The harassment, including groping and verbal abuse, is a daily experience women in the region face and makes them wary of going into public spaces, whether it's the streets or jobs, the participants said. It happens regardless of what women are wearing.

With more and more women in schools, the workplace and politics, roles have changed but often traditional attitudes have not. Experts said in some places, like Egypt, harassment appears sometimes to be out of vengeance, from men blaming women for denied work opportunities.

Amal Madbouli, who wears the conservative face veil or niqab, told The Associated Press that despite her dress, she is harassed and described how a man came after her in the streets of her neighborhood.

"He hissed at me and kept asking me if I wanted to go with him to a quieter area, and to give him my phone number," said Madbouli, a mother of two. "This is a national security issue. I am a mother, and I want to be reassured when my daughters go out on the streets."

Statistics on harassment in the region have until recently been nonexistent, but a series of studies presented at the conference hinted at the widespread nature of the problem.

As many as 90 percent of Yemeni women say they have been harassed, while in Egypt, out of a sample of 1,000, 83 percent reported being verbally or physically abused.

A study in Lebanon reported that more than 30 percent of women said they had been harassed there.

"We are facing a phenomena that is limiting women's right to move ... and is threatening women's participation in all walks of life," said Nehad Abul Komsan, an Egyptian activist who organized the event with funding from the U.N. and the Swedish development agency.

Harassment has long been a problem in Mideast nations. But it was little discussed until three years ago, when blogs gave posted amateur videos showing a crowd of men assaulting women in downtown Cairo during a major Muslim holiday in one of the most shocking harassment incidents in the region.

The public outcry sparked an unprecedented public acknowledgment of the problem in Egypt and elsewhere in the region, and drove the Egyptian government to consider two draft bills addressing sexual harassment.

Sexual harassment, including verbal and physical assault, has been specifically criminalized in only half a dozen Arab countries over the past five years. Most of the 22 Arab states outlaw overtly violent acts like rape or lewd acts in public areas, according to a study by Abul Komsan.

Participants at the conference said men are threatened by an increasingly active female labor force, with conservatives laying the blame for harassment on women's dress and behavior.

In Syria, men from traditional homes go shopping in the market place instead of female family members to spare them harassment, said Sherifa Zuhur, a Lebanese-American academic at the conference.

Abul Komsan described how one of the victims of harassment she interviewed told her she had taken on the full-face veil to stave off the hassle.

"She told me 'I have put on the niqab. By God, what more can I do so they leave me alone,'" she said, quoting the woman. Some even said they were reconsidering going to work or school because of the constant harassment in the streets and on public transpiration.

Where segregation between the sexes is the norm and women are sheltered by religious or tribal customs, cases of sexual harassment are still common at homes and in the times when women must venture out, whether to markets, hospitals or government offices.

In Yemen, where nearly all women are covered from head to toe, activist Amal Basha said 90 percent of women in a published study reported harassment, specifically pinching.

"The religious leaders are always blaming the women, making them live in a constant state of fear because out there, someone is following them," she said.

If a harassment case is reported in Yemen, Basha added, traditional leaders interfere to cover it up, remove the evidence or terrorize the victim.

In Saudi Arabia, another country where women cover themselves completely and are nearly totally segregated from men in public life, women report harassment as well, according to Saudi activist Majid al-Eissa.

His organization, the National Family Safety Program, has been helping draft a law criminalizing violence against women in the conservative kingdom, where flirting can often cross the line into outright assault. Discussion of the law begins Tuesday.

"It will take time especially in this part of the world to absorb the gender mixture and the role each gender can play in society," he said. "We are coping with changes (of modern life), except in our minds."
Christianity vs. Non-Christianity: violence, discrimination, and hatred.
Discrimination against non-Christians is predominant in today’s society. Surf the net, and you will find article upon article on the issue, especially in the United States. The separation of church and state seems to be something that is very difficult for the modern Christian to understand.

What I find incredibly frightening is that Wiccans, along with other non-Christian religious persons, are having to pretend to be Christian so as not to be abused in any way while shopping for their weekly groceries. (I am noticing that as I type this out, the word Wiccans has a red line under it, while Christians does not… more prejudice?) We live in a society now that is exceedingly Christian, and any other point of view is considered “not real�. We witnessed it during 9/11 when the Muslim religion was labeled as “Evil�, but since it was not our own religion that was being condemned we did not get upset about it. I for one, became distraught at the thought that anyone who is Muslim was suffering for the acts of extremists. Constantly hearing about the hatred towards Muslims, I countered with pointing out the Christian cults that condone group suicide while waiting for the aliens to come take them home (google it).

Anyone who is not like the social norm is condemned for their “insane ideals�, I deal with it on a daily basis, not only on a religious level, but I am looked down upon because I am a European. In Arkansas, which is mostly baptist, I am asked constantly what I’m “mixed with�. Snot nosed people, judging a book by its cover because of what they are told by the collective of what is right and wrong, assume that I am unclean because I do not look white. That is to say if they do not notice my non-Christian symbols around my neck, or that I dress in mostly black… or anything else I might have with me at the time. Within the United States, there is plenty of discrimination, here is an article that I came across which prompted this blog.

In England, a friend of mine, who is a Gothic and a Slavic Pagan, was at a grocery store with a baby on her hip and a preteen at her side. While reaching for an item on the shelf, a man runs up to her and screams that she is going to hell and that he ought to kill her right then and there. In the same country, a woman was battered on her wedding day for being Gothic (click here to read the article).

Today’s parents are frightened to death about their teens being drawn to Wicca, and I do not blame them due to the misinformation that is out there. On a daily basis, we as parents are being told that our kids are being seduced by the devil. So then when our kids come home talking about Harry Potter or Charmed, we proceed to their room to burn the works of Satan. When in fact we should be questioning our resources. Why not be open minded on the issue? Yes, I know it works both ways, but this time I am speaking on behalf of those condemned by the Church. The misinformation that is out there is destroying our very psyche and not letting us find it out for ourselves. So I am pointing out the prejudice that I see on a daily basis.

I am all for religion as a personal choice. When a religion, any religion, promotes itself through the media or any other way by putting down all the others I become a little upset. Religious Tolerance is a wonderful website that will help you in your decision, whether it is for your own use or as a parenting tool.

http://drusdungeon.wordpress.com/2009/1 ... istianity/
"Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish." [Qur''''an 17:81)

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Post #3

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Christian University Complaints - Sexual Harassment

Our son was in his second year at Colorado Christian University when last December (2008), he was sexually molested in his dormitory by a former student, then sexually harassed by the resident life director, Ryan Hartwig. He was lied to, threatened, and falsely accused of sexual misconduct by Ryan Hartwig. He was then forced to withdraw from classes, under duress. He was not given the opportunity to see the charges against him, or speak on his own behalf answering these accusations, as this whole process took place in the space of a few hours.


When our son arrived home for Christmas break, he told us what happened. I immediately phoned Ryan Hartwig, who told his version of the event, claiming that our son withdrew of his own accord. This of course, was not true. Ryan Hartwig coerced him into withdrawing. Ryan Hartwig then told me that he'd have to speak to his superior at Colorado Christian University, Vice President of Student life, Jim McCormick before he could say anything else. I said that I'd speak with Jim McCormick myself.


The next day, I received a call from Sharon Felker, who handles student discipline at Colorado Christian University, and she asked if my son felt he was coerced into withdrawing from school. I answered in the affirmative, and we agreed to have a meeting with Jim McCormick on January 5th.


My son and I, along with Jim McCormick and Sharon Felker, met in McCormicks office on January 5, 2009. Ryan Hartwig had falsely accused my son of sexual misconduct, and had provided verifiably false documentation which was the basis for forcing my son to withdraw from classes. At that meeting, Jim McCormick condoned Ryan Hartwig's behavior, despite my bringing to his attention the absurd nature of the accusations against my son. I caught them in a bold faced lie by providing a signed notarized statement from a witness named in his documentation, refuting Ryan Hartwigs accusations.


Following that meeting, the false accusations of sexual misconduct against my son were dropped, presumably because of the documentation that I had provided. Our son was allowed to return to classes the next semester, pending a hearing. However, they made up new accusations that same afternoon, thereby further stacking the deck against my son. Again, he was forced to withdraw from classes for the spring semester because by now we were running up against the class drop deadline if they decided he was guilty. By all indications they had already decided as such, and it would have been a very subjective hearing.


After we indicated that in light of further accusations, he would not be returning to classes that semester, we were told that he would be cleared of all accusations by May, and he'd be allowed to return to school in the fall with a clean slate.


I brought my concerns to the president of Colorado Christian University, Bill Armstrong. After several phone conversations with Bill Armstrong, he promised to look into the matter. He did not, however, do an investigation of any substance, and finally lost his temper with me saying, and I quote "Look, you're just a voice on the phone. You're not a student here, and neither is your son." Further, he said "I suggest you drop this matter, or it will not go well for your son." Then, he had the audacity to pray for me, and hung up the phone. Not the behavior I expect from the president of a Christian College.


By the time I got through with Bill Armstrong, he was so angry with me that he told me my son would never be allowed attend Colorado Christian University again.


I then wrote to the Board of Trustees. I included a very detailed description (60 plus pages) of the events, including documentation of how this incident was mishandled, and how Ryan Harwig lied in his accusations against my son. Further documentation was presented on how the procedures outlined in the Student Handbook were not followed.


Bill White, Head of the Board, condoned Ryan Hartwig's behavior, as well as Jim McCormick and Bill Armstrongs behavior. He wished us well, however, and said that they would pray for my son.


I've concluded that integrity among the staff and the board at Colorado Christian University is nowhere to be found, at any level. A college operating under the guise of a Christian mandate, as set forth in their literature, should honor truth. During the process of working with these people, truth is not something they are even remotely interested in.


Lies told by the instructors should not be condoned by the president, vice president and board of trustees. A parents concerns should not be dismissed in such a cavalier manner. Sexual harassment should not be acceptable behavior for the instructors at Colorado Christian University, and when brought the attention of the Vice President of Student Life, the response "I do not apologize, " as was told to us in the meeting with Jim McCormick, is unacceptable.


Now, my son will not be attending Colorado Christian University, obviously, but I would strongly caution any young person considering an education there, as well as any parent seeking a Christian based education for their child. They clearly do not follow the procedures set forth in their own student handbook with respect to student discipline. This parents concerns were dismissed at every level.


Ryan Hartwig is a graduate of Colorado Christian University, and is a leadership professor, astonishingly enough. Jim McCormick is also a leadership professor. Through out this process, they repeatedly told my son and myself that they would hold him accountable for their accusations against him. When those accusations proved to be false, there was no one who would take responsibility and be held accountable at Colorado Christian University.


Colorado Christian University needs a lawsuit to correct this behavior. While we have considered following through with one, I have concluded that with children in college, it is not the best use of resources. Further, the outcome of such an action is questionable. If a Christian college can't behave according to guidelines set forth in their own literature, and offer no apology when caught sexually harassing students, and lying to students and parents, a lawsuit may or may not be the best course of action.


We contacted an accreditation board, and were told that nothing short of a lawsuit would curb their behavior. Still, there is nothing the accreditation board can do, which makes one wonder about the validity of such a board.


The bottom line: There is no accountability for small private colleges, regardless of how much they preach about holding students accountable. It matters not how flowery their literature is, or the sugary language contained in the bios on their website. Accountability is a one way street.


Further, students and parents of students at such institutions are often hard pressed to come up with the money to attend Christian colleges, and normally will have a difficult time pre suing legal avenues to get the administrators to behave. It's expensive, and not cost effective. Parents have the expectation that the instructors will be good to students. It is difficult for parents or students to fund lawsuits when the institution treats them as badly as we've been handled by Colorado Christian University. The board of trustees knows this, and this is why it continues.


As previously mentioned, I have been to every level at Colorado Christian University, presenting our complaint in great detail, and have been dismissed by all of them.


Recently, I have sent letters to all levels at Colorado Christian University expressing my disappointment in their handling of this situation. Jim McCormick sent the letters back to me, twice, with no response. Hardly the behavior I expect from a leader, much less a leadership professor.


At a state institution this probably wouldn't happen. Accusations against students would have to be substantive, rather than subjective, and the state would hopefully do a better job of holding their people accountable. But then, we wouldn't have the expectations of a biblical standard of behavior, so it's quite possible the situation would have never come up.


Parents and students, be very careful, more careful than we were, in choosing a college. Colorado Christian University is a place that does not practice what they teach.
"Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish." [Qur''''an 17:81)

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Post #4

Post by TrueReligion »

Key point. In a survey conducted by Christian Ministry Resources in 1993, 8 percent of church secretaries claimed they had suffered sexual harassment on the job. In 29 percent of these cases the alleged offender was a minister; in 16 percent of the cases the alleged offender was another staff member; and in 55 percent of the cases the alleged offender was a church member
"Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish." [Qur''''an 17:81)

van
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Post #5

Post by van »

Again missing the point-your Islam condones it

2.223 Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will; but do some good act for your souls beforehand; and fear Allah. And know that ye are to meet Him (in the Hereafter), and give (these) good tidings to those who believe.

Remember:
In a sermon during Ramadan Sheikh Taj Aldin al-Hilali, Australia's most prominent Muslim cleric, said that women invite rape by not covering themselves head to toe:

"If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside ... and the cats come to eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats' or the uncovered meat's?"

"The uncovered meat is the problem. If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred" …

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1727547/posts

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Post #6

Post by T-mash »

It is hilarious how the only defence a follower of one religion has in order to 'defend' that his religion is based on primitive morals is to try and point out how the other religion does bad stuff too :roll:

Of course equality in Islam does not exist, it's not really a debate. Islam carries on the age-old tradition that women are property.

Truereligion. Read the articles please. Well don't worry I'll just quote what is important:

'Harassment across Arab world drives women inside '
" The sexual harassment of women in the streets, schools and work places of the Arab world is driving them to cover up and confine themselves to their homes, said activists at the first-ever regional conference addressing the once taboo topic."
"harassment was unchecked across the region because laws don't punish it, women don't report it and the authorities ignore it. "
"The harassment, including groping and verbal abuse, is a daily experience women in the region face. It happens regardless of what women are wearing. "
"This is a national security issue. I am a mother, and I want to be reassured when my daughters go out on the streets"
"As many as 90 percent of Yemeni women say they have been harassed, while in Egypt, out of a sample of 1,000, 83 percent reported being verbally or physically abused. "
"A study in Lebanon reported that more than 30 percent of women said they had been harassed there. "
"We are facing a phenomena that is limiting women's right to move ... and is threatening women's participation in all walks of life"

etc etc etc..

Your response:
Christian University Complaints - Sexual Harassment

"Our son [One guy] was in his second year at Colorado Christian University when last December (2008), he was sexually molested in his dormitory by a former student, then sexually harassed by the resident life director, Ryan Hartwig."


Are you kidding us?
Isn’t this enough? Just this world?
Just this beautiful, complex, wonderfully unfathomable natural world?
How does it so fail to hold our attention
That we have to diminish it with the invention
Of cheap, man-made Myths and Monsters?
- Tim Minchin

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Post #7

Post by Scotracer »

I agree with T-Mash. TrueReligion, all you ever do when confronted with something that is negative about either Islam or an Eastern Society is to try and find an example of it in a different country. That is not justification. For crying out loud, that article, as Ms Mash highlighted reports in some cases 90 PERCENT of a society's women being abused and you report of an 8% issue in some parts of the US. Are you joking?

Islamic countries subjugate women and it's time for you to just accept that fact rather than trying to show someone else is in the wrong as well - that isn't the point. That's like committing a crime, such as say, theft and justifying it by showing others who do the same thing. That ain't on - it's a childish tactic and does not help your cause at all.
Why Evolution is True
Universe from nothing

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Post #8

Post by TrueReligion »

Scotracer wrote:I agree with T-Mash. TrueReligion, all you ever do when confronted with something that is negative about either Islam or an Eastern Society is to try and find an example of it in a different country. That is not justification. For crying out loud, that article, as Ms Mash highlighted reports in some cases 90 PERCENT of a society's women being abused and you report of an 8% issue in some parts of the US. Are you joking?

Islamic countries subjugate women and it's time for you to just accept that fact rather than trying to show someone else is in the wrong as well - that isn't the point. That's like committing a crime, such as say, theft and justifying it by showing others who do the same thing. That ain't on - it's a childish tactic and does not help your cause at all.
Scotracer, the point of posting the articles is not that im accepting what VAN is posting about Islam, its the views and intention of van . that is making me reply in his own way.
We all agreed that good and bad people are everywhere in every society and religion, in Islam, Christianity, West, Asia, Judaism etc etc.
But what van is doing, is intentionaly targeting Islam, and proving christianity is crystal clear, this is wrong, and not a kind of debate.
If he do arguments and discussion, I wil be happy to do, but the intentions showing is different, so the only way to counter , is same in this way.

Now if you ask me in a neutral way, I will answer ofcourse, but the answer should also have to be listen with open heart and hands, if you make up your mind that whatever I say, you wil oppose it, ofcourse its not a civil debate than, its called intentional attacking.

So decision is yours, ask politely and reason out, I will justify with proof.
"Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish." [Qur''''an 17:81)

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Post #9

Post by TrueReligion »

van wrote:Again missing the point-your Islam condones it

2.223 Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will; but do some good act for your souls beforehand; and fear Allah. And know that ye are to meet Him (in the Hereafter), and give (these) good tidings to those who believe.

Remember:
In a sermon during Ramadan Sheikh Taj Aldin al-Hilali, Australia's most prominent Muslim cleric, said that women invite rape by not covering themselves head to toe:

"If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside ... and the cats come to eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats' or the uncovered meat's?"

"The uncovered meat is the problem. If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred" …

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1727547/posts
So you dont like covering of ladies? you like them without cover in short dresses, so they can be targeted and molested easily.

Here is some stats of rapes and molestations, which clearly shows that the most targeted women are of west, who dont like to cover themselves.

1st read this.

Myth: Women incite men to rape.

Fact: Research has found that the vast majority of rapes are planned. Rape is the responsibility of the rapist alone. Women, children and men of every age, physical type and demeanor are raped. Opportunity is the most important factor determining when a given rapist will rape

http://www.d.umn.edu/cla/faculty/jhamli ... myths.html

Now read this.

Most Rape Cases per Country.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_r ... per-capita


As per Bible, women who dont cover, should shave her head.

The veil is not a uniquely Islamic convention; the practice has a long history in the Judeo-Christian tradition. Catholic nuns engage in the practice, of course, and there are several references to the practice in both the Old and New Testaments (King James Version). Ironically, the representation of veiling in the Bible is much more problematic than those in the Qur'an or the Hadith, because the Judeo-Christian sources imply that women should be covered because of their inherent inferiority. I Corinthians 11 (3-10) offers one example:

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying having his head covered, dishonoreth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoreth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn or shaven; but if it be a hame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

Now if your argument is that Islam is not giving equal rights to women, I can give you realy good example for that, and the fact is tht its only Islam, which gives equal right to women, specially at the time of Arab pagans, who used to burry their daughters alive.

http://www.muslimtents.com/shaufi/b2index.htm

Beside this, if you have any other concern, discuss it rather than posting useless material, and for that I also can post more than that.

Dont forget its a debating site, not attacking site, discuss what you have arguments, you wil get answers for that.

hope you understand it now
"Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish." [Qur''''an 17:81)

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Post #10

Post by TrueReligion »

T-mash wrote:It is hilarious how the only defence a follower of one religion has in order to 'defend' that his religion is based on primitive morals is to try and point out how the other religion does bad stuff too :roll:

Of course equality in Islam does not exist, it's not really a debate. Islam carries on the age-old tradition that women are property.

Truereligion. Read the articles please. Well don't worry I'll just quote what is important:

'Harassment across Arab world drives women inside '
" The sexual harassment of women in the streets, schools and work places of the Arab world is driving them to cover up and confine themselves to their homes, said activists at the first-ever regional conference addressing the once taboo topic."
"harassment was unchecked across the region because laws don't punish it, women don't report it and the authorities ignore it. "
"The harassment, including groping and verbal abuse, is a daily experience women in the region face. It happens regardless of what women are wearing. "
"This is a national security issue. I am a mother, and I want to be reassured when my daughters go out on the streets"
"As many as 90 percent of Yemeni women say they have been harassed, while in Egypt, out of a sample of 1,000, 83 percent reported being verbally or physically abused. "
"A study in Lebanon reported that more than 30 percent of women said they had been harassed there. "
"We are facing a phenomena that is limiting women's right to move ... and is threatening women's participation in all walks of life"

etc etc etc..

Your response:
Christian University Complaints - Sexual Harassment

"Our son [One guy] was in his second year at Colorado Christian University when last December (2008), he was sexually molested in his dormitory by a former student, then sexually harassed by the resident life director, Ryan Hartwig."


Are you kidding us?
T-M, closing your eyes on your side, and just looking at others will not make you high and good.
Sexual harrasment cases are everywhere in world, I would say they are more in West, and can prove it as wel
West mostly treat women as sex-symbol, and that also is obvious with 90% of porno channels are working from west.
Rape stats also convince every that its most in Western countries.

Now you are saying that Islam is attacking women since the time Islam re-establish, means 1400 yrs ago?
Sorry to say T-M, but your history is very weak, Islam gave high rank to women, and best rights at that time, when non-muslims and pagans, used to burry their daughter alive. When these pagans used to marry their mothers when their father died, and marry their daughter-in-law, when their son die.

Let me give you 1 account from History, which is recorded in authentic tradition and books.

"‘Umar ibn Al-Khattab. His attitude towards the Prophet Muhammad (Sallallahu ‘Alayhi wa sallam) and Islam was so harsh that he set out one day to kill the Prophet Sallallahu ‘Alayhi Wa sallam. He was fed up with the efforts of Prophet Sallallahu ‘Alayhi wa sallam to spread Islam that he felt he had to take it in his hands to finish this. He strapped on his sword and set out. On his way, he met another companion who told him to check on his own sister before seeing the Prophet Sallallahu ‘Alayhi Wa sallam. He was surprised and went to his sister’s house, virtually tearing down the door. He slapped her and her husband until blood came from her face. He then stopped and looked at what he had caused.

On his way in, he had heard something from the Quran and it had touched him, but his anger did not allow it a chance to settle in his heart. But when he struck his sister and saw the blood, it stopped him for a minute. What he had heard before touched his heart. He asked what was being read before and some of the Quran was read for him. And he changed.
That was enough to turn him upside down. This was ‘Umar!

On another occasion, the other companions saw him laughing and then crying; one after the other. They asked what had caused that to happen to him. He said. "I remember that in the days of Ignorance (Pagan), I used to have this idol made of dates. One day, I became so hungry that I ate a piece of it. And then, I cried when I remembered digging a hole and burying my daughter. Whilst I was putting her in, she reached up and brushed dirt from my beard." And he had buried her alive. That was the practice — those who felt it was a dishonour to have a daughter killed them. That was how hard his heart was — how hard his heart had become, to bury his daughter alive.

I dont know how much knowledge you have of Islam that you make these kind of claims.
"Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish." [Qur''''an 17:81)

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