witchcraft

[Telora]

Is there any middle ground between the actions that can be considered supernatural witchcraft and the faiths that directly forbid it, what exactly is forbidden and why?

[Suluby]

I beg your pardon sir, but who are you to judge what is divine and what isn't?

You continually act like as if you "Speak for Jesus" and that you are the official self-appointed Pope of Christianity. And then you have the audacity to tell other people that there is nothing divine about their insight.

Apparently your religious arrogance (meaning self-importance) has gone to your head.

With all due respect sir, I do not recognize your authority to speak for Christianity, and I most certainly don't respect your authority to speak for Jesus as "The Christ". And I'm quite sure that no one else here recognizes your authority on those issues either.

As far as I can see all you're doing is "preaching" in a thread where the topic is supposed to be on Witchcraft, and not on Christianity.

You have clearly rebuked the words of Jesus and aren't even in agreement with anything that he taught or held to be of value.

All you seem to want to do is condemn people in Jesus' name.

People who degrade Jesus like you do are a dime a dozen.

Jesus taught love and forgiveness, he did not teach condemnation for not believing in him. In fact, according to the Gospels he even taught that if any man did not believe in him or believe in his words he would not judge them. And he was speaking to those people directly face-to-face.

If he didn't expect people he was speaking to directly to believe in him, then he most certainly wouldn't expect anyone 2000 years later to believe in him based on highly controversial ancient hearsay rumors.

Your spreading of hatred (i.e. condemnation) in Jesus' name is truly disgusting.

You're not about to win any converts using such a demonic approach anyway.

I personally feel that people who use Jesus as an excuse to go around condemning people in Jesus' name have some serious problems. I personally feel that they just love to use the religion to generate hatred and animosity because they know that it upsets and disgusts people to be constantly beat over the head with a rubber Jesus doll.

You're not scaring anyone. Everyone here is far above that. Like I say, no one is even remotely convinced that you have anything at all to do with Jesus. All you're doing is making people sick at the stomach and giving Christianity and Jesus both a bad rap.

IMHO, if you truly believed in Jesus you'd be spreading joy and love throughout the word. The mere fact that you're totally obsessed with using Jesus as a weapon of condemnation on Internet forums speaks volumes.

Didn't Jesus himself teach that we can tell false prophets and preaches by the fruit of their messages?

You're never going to convince anyone that you have accepted Jesus into your heart as long as you are constantly preaching condemnation.

You're going to h ave to do better than that.

Jesus said by their fruits you shall know them. Not by the fruit of their message.

So, what are your fruits here?

Besides, what is the fruit of my message? No purposes are established without time and judgment. IOW, it is too soon to tell. Jesus is about love and forgiveness.

Ah So your 'defense' is that we can't know whether you are telling the truth or not ..... we just have to trust you for now. And if Jesus is about love and forgiveness - do you really think that the fear you show and the binding spells you cast are teaching anyone about the "love and forgiveness"? If we just have to trust you ..... is casting binding spells what you think of as an effective way of inspiring such trust?

You accuse me of spreading hate and condemnation. What have I said that make you go to that extreme? I pray father forgive her for that comment against me and hold it not to her charge in Jesus name.
If you want the joy of the Lord, come out of witchcraft. It will take you where you don't want to go, keep you there longer than you want to stay and cost you more than you want to pay.

It doesn't seem that you are showing us - the non-Christians here - a lot of joy. Fear, anger ..... yes, that you show in abundance.

And the threatened punishment ..... that's not love, IMO. It is designed to control - and that is the hallmark of abuse. "I really love you. I didn't want to beat you, but you didn't obey my orders!"

Love from the Lord doesn't always come in a warm fuzzy feeling and joy and happiness. Sometimes it comes in the form of rebuke. Don't confuse correction with condemnation or hate. The Lord chastens those He loves

But it is you who are chastening us. You are not Jesus, are you? Are you the specially appointed spokesperson of Jesus - to speak in his name about whom he will forgive and whom he will punish?

I doubt that you are.

But when correction is offered so 'gently' ..... with explicit threats of punishment ..... it certainly is condemnation from you. Let Jesus chasten your tongue for not showing any love and forgiveness, just fear and the casting of binding spells.


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[Serpent Oracle]

One person violating the rules do not give others an excuse to also violate the rules.

Rule 16...No commenting on rule violations...gotcha!

Apologies.

[Divine Insight]

Now all these Christians do is scream "JESUS HATES YOU!"

What's up with that?

Some do...they are just rather noisy and vocal.

There are however (as you probably know) some genuine Christians who truly do attempt to concentrate on the core of authentic Christian belief, love.
The same unconditional love the messiah professed.

These people I have no problem with & would happily call them brother or sister and furthermore I would defend them until the bitter end.

I absolutely agree with you. The vast majority of Christians are nice loving people. When I said "These Christians" I was referring to the doomsday preaches who uses Jesus as an excuse to condemn people.

But yes, very fortunately for non-Christians, most Christians are far more like Jesus than the few who go around proselytizing Jesus as a monster. Most Christians don't proselytize the religion.

In fact, Jesus himself taught his own disciples not to argue with people and to simply leave if they aren't interested in hearing what they have to say. These badgering proselytizers who continually harp on condemning people in Jesus name after they've been told repeatedly that nobody want to hear what they have to say, are actually spitting in the face of Jesus and totally ignoring what he actually taught.

~~~~

But trying to get back to the original TOPIC, my only point is that Jesus himself used the excuse that evil powers cannot be used to do good works lest they be turned on themselves and their house would then fall.

That was his own defense. So anyone who actually believes in Jesus, and the words of Jesus, must accept that witchcraft that is used for 'good works' (granted that can be subjective in itself), but if they are 'good works' then they can only have come from God. And this comes straight from Jesus himself in the Gospels.

So Jesus supports witchcraft that is being used for good works as necessarily coming from the divine source of the ultimate God. And therefore Jesus cannot be used to condemn witchcraft. At least not witchcraft that is being used for "good works".

Obviously if the witchcraft is seen as being used for "evil works" then this legal loophole that Jesus used as his defense would obviously no apply.

But for good works, according to Jesus the power had to come from the divine. That was his own defense when he was charged with performing magic in the name of Satan. Therefore if it's a valid defense for him and he speaks "truth", then it must be true for everyone, not just for Jesus.

So Christians can hardly use Jesus as an excuse to condemn witchcraft.

If you want the joy of the Lord, come out of witchcraft. It will take you where you don't want to go, keep you there longer than you want to stay and cost you more than you want to pay.

Where do you get that nonsense from?

The witchcraft that I practice is the same type of witchcraft that Jesus practiced. It's all done for good works, and according to Jesus my powers of magic must then necessarily be flowing through me from the divine just as they flowed through Jesus.

So there is no conflict with "the Lord" if you are referring to Jesus as "the Lord".

You are grossly mistaken and spreading lies about Jesus.

Love from the Lord doesn't always come in a warm fuzzy feeling and joy and happiness. Sometimes it comes in the form of rebuke. Don't confuse correction with condemnation or hate. The Lord chastens those He loves

You're the one who continually speaks about people being condemned by your own perverted views of Jesus.

Every time that I ever think of Jesus I always have warm fuzzy feelings, because unlike you he was all about love and forgiveness and doing "Good Works" via the POWERS of God.

And that's exactly what I do. So I have no reason to fear Jesus.

You are the one who is attempting to turn Jesus against me and make him out to be a monster who will hate me if I refuse to accept your degrading views of him.

I see absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe that Jesus was such a hateful and untrustworthy person as you demand.

I personally believe that Jesus was a Jewish Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva that rejected the ignorance and stupidity of the Torah and the God of Abraham and instead taught the love and wisdom of Buddha.

You would have Jesus hate me for that, simply because you bought into the rumors that Jesus was "The Christ" the son of the God of Abraham.

But you see, I know better than that, because there is no way that that can possibly be true.

So all you're doing is attempting to shove your picture of a hateful Jesus and an ignorance God onto me.

I see Jesus as being far more intelligent, reasonable, and loving that you can even imagine.

So I really have no interest in your own personal views on Jesus. From my perspective all you're doing is using him to generate animosity and hatred through bigotry toward other spiritual views of God.

You may be surprised to learn this, but Jesus is actually included in my view of "God". He's not a demigod born of a virgin who was impregnated by an insane jealous God. Instead, he's a divine sage similar to Buddha, who actually rebuked that insane jealous God of the Torah, and replaced it with the wisdom and love of Buddha.

So I view Jesus as a very loving divine incarnation of God (not through a demigod birth to a mortal woman) but rather in the same was that Buddha, Confucius, Lao Tzu, and many others were divine incarnations of God at least in terms of physic enlightenment.

Your obsessive fear of an evil unrighteous God is your problem, not mine.

Like I say, I do good works, and that would not even be possible if they weren't coming from God according to Jesus himself.

So you're rebuking Jesus' own words in an attempt to make him into a monster.

There is no "monster Jesus" as you proclaim. That's your very own creation. And I'm not buying it.

[Divine Insight]

I pray father forgive her for that comment against me and hold it not to her charge in Jesus name. If you want the joy of the Lord, come out of witchcraft.

Moderator Comment

Please refrain from judging others. Debate the issue. Do not make comments about the person.


Please review the Rules.

May I ask if the constant proselytizing of a specific religion and the condemnation of other faiths or spiritual practices in the name of a specific idolized "God", is against the rules?

The only rule I can see that would apply is the rule against "Spamming, advertisements, etc."

It does appear to me that someone is attempting to 'sell' a particular religion and condemn all other beliefs as being against the will of the "God" of the religion they are proselytizing.

If that's against the rules then I may very well be pushing a report button in the very near future, because it truly is becoming annoying "spam". And the post-to-post salesman is apparently refusing to take no for an answer. He just keeps on preaching like a deaf dumb and blind energizer bunny.

[Burninglight]

I pray father forgive her for that comment against me and hold it not to her charge in Jesus name. If you want the joy of the Lord, come out of witchcraft.

Moderator Comment

Please refrain from judging others. Debate the issue. Do not make comments about the person.


Please review the Rules.

May I ask if the constant proselytizing of a specific religion and the condemnation of other faiths or spiritual practices in the name of a specific idolized "God", is against the rules?

The only rule I can see that would apply is the rule against "Spamming, advertisements, etc."

It does appear to me that someone is attempting to 'sell' a particular religion and condemn all other beliefs as being against the will of the "God" of the religion they are proselytizing.

If that's against the rules then I may very well be pushing a report button in the very near future, because it truly is becoming annoying "spam". And the post-to-post salesman is apparently refusing to take no for an answer. He just keeps on preaching like a deaf dumb and blind energizer bunny.

Divine insight my comments about other religions or forgiving you for you insults to me is not judging you personally or any individual personally. Your comments like "He just keeps on preaching like a deaf dumb and blind energizer bunny; Your spreading of hatred (i.e. condemnation) in Jesus' name is truly disgusting." These are judgments.

You need to learn to not take my comments about witchcraft personally. Everyone does a certain amount of promoting their faith;' it is not always avoidable. You can say what you like about my faith. I don't take it personally. God doesn't need me to fight His battles for him. Maybe it is because Islam and witchcraft have no security from God that people take personally anything said against it. I haven't judged or condemned anyone that is not my job.

[Serpent Oracle]

Divine insight my comments about other religions or forgiving you for you insults to me is not judging you personally or any individual personally.

Tell that to the mods...you were corrected, you should apologise to Divine.

Your comments like "He just keeps on preaching like a deaf dumb and blind energizer bunny; Your spreading of hatred (i.e. condemnation) in Jesus' name is truly disgusting." These are judgments.

They were not judgements.
They were in fact substantiable observations...

You need to learn to not take my comments about witchcraft personally.

You need to learn that people like Divine Insight do not want to be patronised by some hypocritical self righteous moraliser...you are on the wrong thread.

Everyone does a certain amount of promoting their faith;' it is not always avoidable. You can say what you like about my faith. I don't take it personally. God doesn't need me to fight His battles for him. Maybe it is because Islam and witchcraft have no security from God that people take personally anything said against it. I haven't judged or condemned anyone that is not my job.

No you just dont understand that your revolting comments are as offensive to us as it would be offensive for me to go on to a Christian discussion thread and start telling Christians that they should convert to my faith.
Praying to the Horned God and asking His forgiveness for those Christians who dare rebuke me for prosletyzing...

[Burninglight]

I pray father forgive her for that comment against me and hold it not to her charge in Jesus name.

You are trolling now, that was a particlularly ignorant and inflammatory comment, calculated to offend no doubt.
You are the one who should be begging for forgiveness.

If you want the joy of the Lord, come out of witchcraft. It will take you where you don't want to go, keep you there longer than you want to stay and cost you more than you want to pay.

Where did you read that?
In a fortune cookie?

Love from the Lord doesn't always come in a warm fuzzy feeling and joy and happiness. Sometimes it comes in the form of rebuke. Don't confuse correction with condemnation or hate. The Lord chastens those He loves

You are not the vassal or medium for the rebuke of the Lord...although you egotistically think you are.
You are just another tiresome hypocrite, looking for the speck of sawdust in your sister's eye whilst ignoring the huge plank in your own.

You might think the gravest sin is laughing at the offensive and idiotic garbage you spout...I have some good news for you...it isnt.

Your delusions of grandeur are clear to see for all.

Asking God's forgiveness for someone who insults you is not a judgment, but it is a judgment on you part to say I am "trolling" or I did something "calculated to offend no doubt." and to say I am "another tiresome hypocrite is an inflammatory judgment" I wonder why your not being called on it?

It is not for you to say who I am in the Lord. It is written "The spiritual man judges all things yet he is judged of no man" What I share I do in love. You don't know my motives; so, let God judge between us, and He will. With our own words we will be justified or condemned!

[Serpent Oracle]

It is not for you to say who I am in the Lord. It is written "The spiritual man judges all things yet he is judged of no man" What I share I do in love. You don't know my motives; so, let God judge between us, and He will. With our own words we will be justified or condemned!

I know your motives with crystal clear clarity, I have met many people like yourself, the pattern is all too familiar.
You do not share love, you share your abject and total fear.
Let God judge me...I could not care less.

[Serpent Oracle]

Asking God's forgiveness for someone who insults you is not a judgment, but it is a judgment on you part to say I am "trolling" or I did something "calculated to offend no doubt." and to say I am "another tiresome hypocrite is an inflammatory judgment" I wonder why your not being called on it?

You are very troll like.

Praying for people for insulting your sense of moral superiority?

Get over yourself...

Pride is the greatest sin apparently...

[Burninglight]

I beg your pardon sir, but who are you to judge what is divine and what isn't?

You continually act like as if you "Speak for Jesus" and that you are the official self-appointed Pope of Christianity. And then you have the audacity to tell other people that there is nothing divine about their insight.

Apparently your religious arrogance (meaning self-importance) has gone to your head.

With all due respect sir, I do not recognize your authority to speak for Christianity, and I most certainly don't respect your authority to speak for Jesus as "The Christ". And I'm quite sure that no one else here recognizes your authority on those issues either.

As far as I can see all you're doing is "preaching" in a thread where the topic is supposed to be on Witchcraft, and not on Christianity.

You have clearly rebuked the words of Jesus and aren't even in agreement with anything that he taught or held to be of value.

All you seem to want to do is condemn people in Jesus' name.

People who degrade Jesus like you do are a dime a dozen.

Jesus taught love and forgiveness, he did not teach condemnation for not believing in him. In fact, according to the Gospels he even taught that if any man did not believe in him or believe in his words he would not judge them. And he was speaking to those people directly face-to-face.

If he didn't expect people he was speaking to directly to believe in him, then he most certainly wouldn't expect anyone 2000 years later to believe in him based on highly controversial ancient hearsay rumors.

Your spreading of hatred (i.e. condemnation) in Jesus' name is truly disgusting.

You're not about to win any converts using such a demonic approach anyway.

I personally feel that people who use Jesus as an excuse to go around condemning people in Jesus' name have some serious problems. I personally feel that they just love to use the religion to generate hatred and animosity because they know that it upsets and disgusts people to be constantly beat over the head with a rubber Jesus doll.

You're not scaring anyone. Everyone here is far above that. Like I say, no one is even remotely convinced that you have anything at all to do with Jesus. All you're doing is making people sick at the stomach and giving Christianity and Jesus both a bad rap.

IMHO, if you truly believed in Jesus you'd be spreading joy and love throughout the word. The mere fact that you're totally obsessed with using Jesus as a weapon of condemnation on Internet forums speaks volumes.

Didn't Jesus himself teach that we can tell false prophets and preaches by the fruit of their messages?

You're never going to convince anyone that you have accepted Jesus into your heart as long as you are constantly preaching condemnation.

You're going to h ave to do better than that.

Jesus said by their fruits you shall know them. Not by the fruit of their message.

So, what are your fruits here?

Besides, what is the fruit of my message? No purposes are established without time and judgment. IOW, it is too soon to tell. Jesus is about love and forgiveness.

Ah So your 'defense' is that we can't know whether you are telling the truth or not ..... we just have to trust you for now. And if Jesus is about love and forgiveness - do you really think that the fear you show and the binding spells you cast are teaching anyone about the "love and forgiveness"? If we just have to trust you ..... is casting binding spells what you think of as an effective way of inspiring such trust?

You accuse me of spreading hate and condemnation. What have I said that make you go to that extreme? I pray father forgive her for that comment against me and hold it not to her charge in Jesus name.
If you want the joy of the Lord, come out of witchcraft. It will take you where you don't want to go, keep you there longer than you want to stay and cost you more than you want to pay.

It doesn't seem that you are showing us - the non-Christians here - a lot of joy. Fear, anger ..... yes, that you show in abundance.

And the threatened punishment ..... that's not love, IMO. It is designed to control - and that is the hallmark of abuse. "I really love you. I didn't want to beat you, but you didn't obey my orders!"

Love from the Lord doesn't always come in a warm fuzzy feeling and joy and happiness. Sometimes it comes in the form of rebuke. Don't confuse correction with condemnation or hate. The Lord chastens those He loves

But it is you who are chastening us. You are not Jesus, are you? Are you the specially appointed spokesperson of Jesus - to speak in his name about whom he will forgive and whom he will punish?

I doubt that you are.

But when correction is offered so 'gently' ..... with explicit threats of punishment ..... it certainly is condemnation from you. Let Jesus chasten your tongue for not showing any love and forgiveness, just fear and the casting of binding spells.


.

If what I say doesn't speak to your heart ignore it. The Lord does, sometimes, speak through people. If someone says a verse from the Bible or makes a comment about what I believe and it doesn't fit me, I don't wear it. Many people get offended and react if the shoe fits them. Are you one of them? How am I chastening you? I am not the Lord.