Toronto "Slut Walk"

[Kuan]

[youtube][/youtube]

Does anyone else find this...weird? I dont understand what is wrong with it in any way, and for those who dont want to watch the video here is a quick summary.

"Proud" and "awesome" sluts are marching in Toronto for their right to dress like sluts. The protest is in response to a male cop who advised women to "avoid dressing like sluts" in order not to be victimized and raped.

Questions for debate: Was the cop giving bad advice? Was he interfering with their rights to dress slutty? Was the advice common sense?

[Furrowed Brow]

The “Sluts� are right the cop was an ignoramus and his comment drags us back a couple of decades. That men are on average bigger and more aggressive and on occasion some of us beat and rape women is a reason to focus on the men not how women dress. As soon we say “you dressed like a slut� we give implicit support to the notion that the rape was understandable and kind of justified.

[Kuan]

The “Sluts� are right the cop was an ignoramus and his comment drags us back a couple of decades. That men are on average bigger and more aggressive and on occasion some of us beat and rape women is a reason to focus on the men not how women dress. As soon we say “you dressed like a slut� we give implicit support to the notion that the rape was understandable and kind of justified.

Thats not at all what is happening though. If not dressing as a slut lowers their chance of being raped, wouldnt that be a good idea?

Men lust a lot, we think a ton about girls. Lust has a play in rape and when a woman dresses "slutty" she makes herself more of a target. Men lust after her more which can lead to an attempted rape. Im not trying to put any blame on the woman for what happened, I fully blame the man who raped her.

[Furrowed Brow]

That’s not at all what is happening though. If not dressing as a slut lowers their chance of being raped, wouldn’t that be a good idea?

Does it lower the chances? What are the statistics? I just read a stat on wiki that says 1 in 6 women in the US have experienced an attempted or completed rape. Do we know what they were wearing at the time? I’d be interested in the evidence. I strongly suspect there is no single pattern. If there is none then why does this attitude persist?

By the way - the vast majority of rapes are committed by friends, acquaintances, relatives, partners and ex partners. Relatively few rapes are stranger rapes.

Men lust a lot, we think a ton about girls.

Mostly true. But then girls think about boys too I guess.

Lust has a play in rape and when a woman dresses "slutty" she makes herself more of a target.

How much a play? Check out the wiki. Sexual pleasure is a factor but research shows anger, power, hostility to women are much more prominent. Sexual gratification is a minor motivation and even in the cases where it is the dominant factor there is no evidence I can find that says the men are picking on “slutty� women.

Men lust after her more which can lead to an attempted rape.

Sorry mormon boy51 I think this says everything about what you have learnt on the subject and next to nothing about the research and evidence on the subject.

I’m not trying to put any blame on the woman for what happened, I fully blame the man who raped her.

Accepted that is your intent, however I think the effect of this kind of attitude perpetuates an atmosphere where part of the blame is put on to the women. It is also very misleading to promote the idea that if you dress this way and not that you stand less chance of being raped. Besides from “well that kind of makes sense to me� where is the objective evidence?

[McCulloch]

The cop, speaking at the time as a representative of Toronto Police gave bad advice. He demonstrated not only gross insensitivity but an ignorance of the dynamics of crime. Being assaulted isn’t about what you wear; it’s not even about sex. It is about power and domination. Using a pejorative term to rationalize inexcusable behavior creates an environment in which it’s okay to blame the victim.

Spread the word that those who experience sexual assault are not the ones at fault, without exception.

BTW, dressing like a slut does not increase your chances of being raped. I appreciate mormon boy51 naive belief about rape being about lust. The truth is that it is not.

[sarabellum]

That settles it I am moving to Canada....

If all women on the planet consented to only wearing burlap moo-moos....
Would rape go away?

No...
(Sales of itch cream would skyrocket!)

[Kuan]

That’s not at all what is happening though. If not dressing as a slut lowers their chance of being raped, wouldn’t that be a good idea?

Does it lower the chances? What are the statistics? I just read a stat on wiki that says 1 in 6 women in the US have experienced an attempted or completed rape. Do we know what they were wearing at the time? I’d be interested in the evidence. I strongly suspect there is no single pattern. If there is none then why does this attitude persist?

Im not going by statistics, but speculation so whatever I have said has no merit at all. I doubt there is a study regarding whether or not dressing slutty has any affect at all.

By the way - the vast majority of rapes are committed by friends, acquaintances, relatives, partners and ex partners. Relatively few rapes are stranger rapes.

I knew that, but I still stand by my belief that there must be some type of physical attraction before rape ever occurs.

Mostly true. But then girls think about boys too I guess.

Yeah, and few girls can overpower guys. Maybe a correlation between the fact that women are targeted by rape more often?

How much a play? Check out the wiki. Sexual pleasure is a factor but research shows anger, power, hostility to women are much more prominent. Sexual gratification is a minor motivation and even in the cases where it is the dominant factor there is no evidence I can find that says the men are picking on “slutty� women.

All a problem, but the anger, power, and hostility could all be some type of weird ...(whats the word?.....) fetish.

Sorry mormon boy51 I think this says everything about what you have learnt on the subject and next to nothing about the research and evidence on the subject.

As with any subject, I know nothing. I thought that was given?

Accepted that is your intent, however I think the effect of this kind of attitude perpetuates an atmosphere where part of the blame is put on to the women. It is also very misleading to promote the idea that if you dress this way and not that you stand less chance of being raped. Besides from “well that kind of makes sense to me� where is the objective evidence?

Well, here is a PDF that discusses males more aggressive sexuality and how this relates to rape.

Rape and Sexual Coercion

Quick Excerpt:

since men ‘have evolved sexual preferences for young and healthy women and are attracted to women who signal potential availability by means of dress and behavior,’ women should be informed of the risk factors and use the information to lower their risk of rape by paying attention, for example, to dress and appearance.

I am not claiming it is the only reason but that if women pay attention it can lower their chance for rape.

[McCulloch]

I still stand by my belief that there must be some type of physical attraction before rape ever occurs.

You're a really nice guy, not the type who would commit a rape. Like me, you see sex as part of a consensual relationship, a fun activity for both parties, encouraged by our own natural drives. You find it difficult to understand rape. So do I.

The research shows that rape is not about physical attraction. It is not even about sex. It is about the rapist's need to control, belittle and dominate. Cops who advise women not to dress like a slut are dispensing unsupported folk wisdom that even if followed would have no effect. At best, a complete waste of time, at the worst, providing a false sense of security to these women, perpetuating the insult that some women deserve what they get.

[font=Georgia]If there is a girl who is a virgin engaged to a man, and another man finds her in the city and lies with her, then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city and you shall stone them to death; the girl, because she did not cry out in the city, and the man, because he has violated his neighbor's wife. Thus you shall purge the evil from among you.
But if in the field the man finds the girl who is engaged, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lies with her shall die. But you shall do nothing to the girl; there is no sin in the girl worthy of death, for just as a man rises against his neighbor and murders him, so is this case. When he found her in the field, the engaged girl cried out, but there was no one to save her.
If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her and they are discovered, then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall become his wife because he has violated her; he cannot divorce her all his days. [/font]

If a man rapes a woman who is engaged to another, he should be put to death, not because he did something wrong to her but because he took something that belonged to his neighbor. If it happened in the city, she should be put to death, because she did not cry out! If she gets raped out in the field, then mercy can be shown, you don't have to kill her.
But if she is not engaged, the rapist must purchase her from her father for fifty shekels of silver and she has the benefit of belonging to the man who violated her.

This kind of thinking leads to the stupidity and insensitivity shown above. If she wasn't dressed like a slut, then she might not have been raped. Why didn't she wear a burqua? Maybe she wanted it, after all she didn't cry out.

[Kuan]

I still stand by my belief that there must be some type of physical attraction before rape ever occurs.

You're a really nice guy, not the type who would commit a rape. Like me, you see sex as part of a consensual relationship, a fun activity for both parties, encouraged by our own natural drives. You find it difficult to understand rape. So do I.

This is true, I dont understand it at all.

The research shows that rape is not about physical attraction.

Couldnt this be some type of fetish?

It is not even about sex. It is about the rapist's need to control, belittle and dominate. Cops who advise women not to dress like a slut are dispensing unsupported folk wisdom that even if followed would have no effect. At best, a complete waste of time, at the worst, providing a false sense of security to these women, perpetuating the insult that some women deserve what they get.

It can perpetuate the insult that the woman got what she deserved, I wont deny that.

This kind of thinking leads to the stupidity and insensitivity shown above. If she wasn't dressed like a slut, then she might not have been raped. Why didn't she wear a burqua? Maybe she wanted it, after all she didn't cry out.

Well, rape is very low in countries were women wear a burqua. Could there be a correlation?

[McCulloch]

Well, rape is very low in countries were women wear a burqua. Could there be a correlation?

Actually, reports of rape are very low in countries where women wear the burqua. Also the justice system is heavily biased against women witnesses in countries where women wear burquas. Could there be a correlation?