Jesus died for our sins...

FreddieFreeloader · Post by **FreddieFreeloader** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 6:49 pm

According to Christian doctrine Jesus Christ died for our sins on the cross, so that we, through faith in him, can achieve salvation. Suppose that we are judged. Suppose that we are chosen to spend eternity in either heaven or hell. Apart from the complexities of whether or not salvation comes from deed or faith, I want to ask a different question:

If we are offered salvation, because of the suffering of Jesus Christ, can we even consider it morally right to accept it?
Is it acceptable to avoid taking responsibility for our own actions in such a manner by using this "loophole" in the divine order of things?

youngborean · Post by **youngborean** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 6:54 pm

My answer is that accepting salvation is the only way to truly take responsibility for your actions. Salvation is only offered to sinners who repent. This is because Jesus came to call sinners to repentance.

Mat 9:13 But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Therefore, one must first take responsibilty by acknowledging their sin, and repenting of that sin. This humbling experience can then inform their actions to do good. But one cannot recieve the gospel without repentance.

gonkm · Post by **gonkm** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:15 pm

Jesus died willingly. He wants us to accept what he did for us because he loves us. If you were in prison and bail was hundreds of thousands of dollars, would you refuse someone who pays for you?

NGR · Post by **NGR** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:09 am

What about all those individuals that lived and died prior to Jesus turning up? What about all those who lived and died after the crucifixion but who never heard of the God of Abraham or Jesus. Where do they fit into the program?

bernee51 · Post by **bernee51** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:31 am

gonkm wrote:Jesus died willingly. He wants us to accept what he did for us because he loves us. If you were in prison and bail was hundreds of thousands of dollars, would you refuse someone who pays for you?

It is not quite like that is it?

It is more...

I am in prison facing execution and an innocent person comes along and offers to be executed in my place. I may grab at the opportunity but would it be an acceptable moral decision on my part to allow them to die in my stead?

perplexed101 · Post by **perplexed101** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:49 am

It is not quite like that is it?

It is more...

I am in prison facing execution and an innocent person comes along and offers to be executed in my place. I may grab at the opportunity but would it be an acceptable moral decision on my part to allow them to die in my stead?

that seems to be what is expressed from pilate's point of view when he ultimately washed his hands in the matter due to the demands made by the Sanhedrin council... NICE hypothetical situation though.

bernee51 · Post by **bernee51** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:03 am

perplexed101 wrote:
that seems to be what is expressed from pilate's point of view when he ultimately washed his hands in the matter due to the demands made by the Sanhedrin council

I didn't realise Pilate was facing being crucified when he 'washed his hands of the matter'.

perplexed101 wrote: ... NICE hypothetical situation though.

so, is my decision to allow an innocent to die for my crimes morally acceptable?

perplexed101 · Post by **perplexed101** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:13 am

I didn't realise Pilate was facing being crucified when he 'washed his hands of the matter'.

i didnt know you was a dead man walking in prison.

Pilate was facing in deciding of whether to let Jesus Christ whom he found not guilty of any crime still authorized for the beating and crucifying of Him at the demands of the Sanhedrin council.

so, is my decision to allow an innocent to die for my crimes morally acceptable?

yes, i personally believe its okay to die a martyr's death if done willingly.

bernee51 · Post by **bernee51** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:21 am

perplexed101 wrote: i didnt know you was a dead man walking in prison.

I neve said or even hinted I was

perplexed101 wrote: Pilate was facing in deciding of whether to let Jesus Christ whom he found not guilty of any crime still authorized for the beating and crucifying of Him at the demands of the Sanhedrin council.

Now if Pilate had have offered to take his place...

perplexed101 wrote:
so, is my decision to allow an innocent to die for my crimes morally acceptable?
yes, i personally believe its okay to die a martyr's death if done willingly.

I don't think I mentioned anything about martyrdom in my analogy. In order to make it best fit the Jesus situation I guess that would have to be included.

gonkm · Post by **gonkm** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:47 am

NGR wrote:What about all those individuals that lived and died prior to Jesus turning up? What about all those who lived and died after the crucifixion but who never heard of the God of Abraham or Jesus. Where do they fit into the program?

I really think the answer to this question is "we don't know". We have to go on what we do know.

A lady I really love at Church said that she believes some people come to believe in God through his creation. I think the bible hints at this somewhere, although I'm not sure where at the moment.

What I wonder about is that if God can raise the dead, who knows what his ultimate plan is for all of us?

But all of us here have heard of Jesus, so we are responsible for how we respond to Him. We are without excuse.