Is Sexual Desire for a Woman, Sin?

[Crosswalk711]

When Jesus spoke of 'lust' in Matthew 5, he was speaking specifically to married men. He was saying that if a man were to covet a woman that is NOT his wife, then he is already committing adultery with her in his heart.

However, Jesus was not speaking to unmarried men. God expects unmarried men to have sexual desire for women because they are still searching for that right spouse.

Questions for debate:
Is it a sin for an unmarried man to have sexual desire for women? If so, how?
What is your definition of lust?

[Adurumus]

Oddly enough, female homosexuality is fine with a lot of people. It's just male gays that are "icky." Ghana can imprison you for it if you're a man, but they're fine with it if you're a woman.

[McCulloch]

Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness. A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.
[...]
Do not sharply rebuke an older man, but rather appeal to him as a father, to the younger men as brothers, the older women as mothers, and the younger women as sisters, in all purity.

Yet I wish that all men were even as I myself am. However, each man has his own gift from God, one in this manner, and another in that.

But I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I. But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

It would seem that a man should not seek a wife based on her sexual attractiveness, but on other higher qualities.

[Crosswalk711]

Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness. A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.
[...]
Do not sharply rebuke an older man, but rather appeal to him as a father, to the younger men as brothers, the older women as mothers, and the younger women as sisters, in all purity.

Yet I wish that all men were even as I myself am. However, each man has his own gift from God, one in this manner, and another in that.

But I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I. But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

It would seem that a man should not seek a wife based on her sexual attractiveness, but on other higher qualities.

That is true...you should not want a wife JUST because of her attractiveness...but you have to admit that sexual attractiveness does play a part. I mean, the book of Song of Solomon in the Bible is filled with sexual imagery...how can you say that it is wrong for a man to desire a woman sexually?

[McCulloch]

That is true...you should not want a wife JUST because of her attractiveness...but you have to admit that sexual attractiveness does play a part. I mean, the book of Song of Solomon in the Bible is filled with sexual imagery...how can you say that it is wrong for a man to desire a woman sexually?

I admit that. However, it appears as if Paul and Jesus do not. I, personally, disagree with Paul and Jesus on this matter.

Yes, the Song of Solomon is filled with sexual imagery. It is not frequently read in the churches. Two things to consider: Solomon is extolling the sexual virtues of his wife, his legitimate lover, not prior to marriage, but after it marriage has been consummated. I do not hold that the books of the Bible are necessarily in harmony with each other. I tried once, but it was too damaging to my psyche.

[jmac2112]

McCulloch,

I'm not sure I follow you. Are you saying that Jesus and Paul teach that it is wrong for a man to desire a woman sexually?

In the passages quoted or alluded to in the posts so far, I see

1) Jesus forbidding a man to look with lust at a woman; the actual quote is "For you have heard that it was said, "You shall not commit adultery." But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

The usual Christian understanding of lust (as far as I know) is that it is not simply finding a woman sexually attractive, nor is it equivalent to the desire to have sex with a woman, but could refer to either a) any intentional sexual desires or fantasies regarding a woman who is not your wife (regardless of whether either of you is married), or b) any intentional sexual desire for a woman in which she is viewed solely as an object for your sexual gratification. This latter would apply even to the way one view's one's wife.

There are, of course, degrees of sexual attraction, all the way from the simple recognition that a woman is attractive all the way to fantasies of getting a woman in the sack.

2) Paul writing to Timothy (who is an unmarried bishop) recommending that he urge women to dress modestly and behave virtuously so that men will be attracted to them for the right reasons (sexual attractiveness + virtue) rather than concentrating on enhancing their sexual attractiveness with skimpy clothing, fancy hairdos, and expensive jewelry.

3) Paul telling Timothy (the unmarried bishop) to treat everyone as though they were his blood relatives, including treating young women as he would treat sisters.

4) Paul advising the Corinthians that remaining single so as to devote all one's time and energies to serving the Lord (see a bit further on, 1 Cor. 7, 32-35), but saying that it is better to marry than to "burn with passion". I take that to mean that if anyone can't seem to remain chaste as a single person, then by all means, get married. Throughout chapter 7 he gives advice to both the married and the unmarried, and does not try to impose either state on anyone.


I can't think of any passages in which Jesus or Paul specifically praise sexual attraction between men and women. Then again, why would they? It's not like they needed to convince anyone that it's OK for men and women to be attracted to one another. They concentrate on the proper boundaries regarding sex and sexual desire.

Jesus seems to be a regular ol' softy when it comes to sexual sins. He saves the woman who is about to be stoned for adultery (John 8:2-11), and doesn't even give her a lecture. He just says "Go and sin no more." Likewise with the Samaritan woman at the well John 4:16-18). He reminds her that she has been married. He also performed his first miracle at a wedding feast. He and Paul seem to be pro-marriage, anti-lust.

[Angel]

When Jesus spoke of 'lust' in Matthew 5, he was speaking specifically to married men. He was saying that if a man were to covet a woman that is NOT his wife, then he is already committing adultery with her in his heart.

However, Jesus was not speaking to unmarried men. God expects unmarried men to have sexual desire for women because they are still searching for that right spouse.

Questions for debate:
Is it a sin for an unmarried man to have sexual desire for women? If so, how?
What is your definition of lust?

In Matthew 5:27-28, Jesus was referring to adultery and adultery only applies to married people. Factoring that in, it is not a sin for an unmarried man to have sexual desire for an UNmarried woman. It is a sin for an unmarried man to have sexual desire for a MARRIED woman. The only way that sexual desire for a single woman could be a sin is if desiring fornication meant committing fornication in the same way that Jesus mentioned for adultery. The implications of that would probably mean all sins that are desired for counts as committing the sin.

[Slopeshoulder]

It would appear that a reasonable interpretation of the major thrust (no pun inteded) of the teachings is that being controlled by desire, objectifying women, divorcing sexual ethics from their broader context, and lacking boundaries or discernment are a bad idea, not part of "god's way," so to speak. That's "lust."
But desire is natural and therefore good. We aren't fruitful and multiplying, or enjoying the gift of life, without some measure of (sexual) desire (and fulfillment). So when we make desire and lust synonymous, we diminish our humanity, the good of creation, and our duty to discern. We're righteous when we order our natural inclintions toward well being. Just how to order that is a subject for debate. Personally I take a very liberal point of view, although I live conservatively.

[Adamoriens]

Is it true that sexual objectification of another is always wrong? What is "objectification" exactly? A person may temporarily suspend every value but gratification of sexual desire prior to sex or during it with the consent of his/her spouse, and that seems all right to me.

[Slopeshoulder]

Is it true that sexual objectification of another is always wrong? What is "objectification" exactly? A person may temporarily suspend every value but gratification of sexual desire prior to sex or during it with the consent of his/her spouse, and that seems all right to me.

I agree.
But you included three caveats: temporary, consent, and spouse.
Objectification would be an orientation of non-consensual reduction or ignoring of the other's person, what Buber called an I- It relationship.