Does Christianity discriminate against women?

[Confused]

From Another thread.

Is there any equality offered to women in Christian scripture? Or are we simply "vessels" to be used to carry the seed of men? Does Christian scripture simply discriminate against women or is there some obscure scripture that offers women something equal to men?

[Malachi-Zede-El]

From Another thread.

Is there any equality offered to women in Christian scripture? Or are we simply "vessels" to be used to carry the seed of men? Does Christian scripture simply discriminate against women or is there some obscure scripture that offers women something equal to men?

Deuteronomy 22 ; 20 - 21 , States And I Quote ; But if this Thing be True , and the tokens of Virginity be not found for the Damsel . Verse 21 . They they shall bring out the Damsel to the door of her Father's House , and the Men of Her City shall Stone Her With Stones that she Die , Because she Hath Wrought folly in Israel , to Play The Whore in her father house ; so shalt thou evil way from among you .

[bjs]

From [url=http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 038#417038]Does Christian scripture simply discriminate against women or is there some obscure scripture that offers women something equal to men?

I dont think that I would call it obscure, but Galatians 3:28 says, There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

This certainly seems to put men and women on the same level in Christ.

[Goat]

From [url=http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 038#417038]Does Christian scripture simply discriminate against women or is there some obscure scripture that offers women something equal to men?

I dont think that I would call it obscure, but Galatians 3:28 says, There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

This certainly seems to put men and women on the same level in Christ.

On the other hand, you have all these passages in the Letters of Paul that say that women should be silent in church (1 corth 14:34).

[JohnPaul]

From [url=http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 038#417038]Does Christian scripture simply discriminate against women or is there some obscure scripture that offers women something equal to men?

I dont think that I would call it obscure, but Galatians 3:28 says, There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

This certainly seems to put men and women on the same level in Christ.

On the other hand, you have all these passages in the Letters of Paul that say that women should be silent in church (1 corth 14:34).

The Galatians verse is like all other Christian promises of pie in the sky, bye and bye, but Paul, the major interpreter of Christianity, may be willing to let God deal with them in heaven but on earth they should shut up and stay in their place!

As for the prospects of women when they get to heaven, Paul was the voice of the Church then, and didn't Jesus say something like "Whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven."?

Hmmm.

John

[McCulloch]

Therefore I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and dissension.
Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness. A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

Men are to pray and lift up holy hands. Women are to be modest, discreet and quiet. Many Christian apologists say that this was an instruction to a specific group of people for a specific time. But those who do, have completely missed the context. Paul gives his reasoning and justification for this discrimination. He appeals to the very first human couple and the fall.

Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ.

Now I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you. But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ. Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying disgraces his head. But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved. For if a woman does not cover her head, let her also have her hair cut off; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head. For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man; for indeed man was not created for the womans sake, but woman for the mans sake. Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels. However, in the Lord, neither is woman independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. For as the woman originates from the man, so also the man has his birth through the woman; and all things originate from God. Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him, but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her for a covering. But if one is inclined to be contentious, we have no other practice, nor have the churches of God.

Notice again, the discrimination that Paul commands, is justified by the creation. He intended this to be universal, not just a local suggestion.

[David 2.0]

Social issues seem to be a weak spot in the bible, IMO. (Slavery for example.)It is my feeling that it has to do with the cultural norms at the time.
(It wasn't seen as wrong, so it wasn't reported as wrong.)

So on the one hand...

Love one another. Do unto others. Love is patient,...(ect.)
Vs.
The stuff that doesn't seem to bare much fruit. (or is discriminatory)
God is worried about the head gear of a woman, and as a man, I should be too?
Me Tarzan you Jane?

I guess on some level it could boil down to what you focus on. If you are truly fully focused on love, patience, kindness, then perhaps discrimination should not show up in your character, which would make the idea a non-issue.

Thats the best I got.

It is my feeling that I would pass on the chance of being a women around the time the new testament was written.

[JohnPaul]

Therefore I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and dissension.
Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness. A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

Men are to pray and lift up holy hands. Women are to be modest, discreet and quiet. Many Christian apologists say that this was an instruction to a specific group of people for a specific time. But those who do, have completely missed the context. Paul gives his reasoning and justification for this discrimination. He appeals to the very first human couple and the fall.

Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ.

Now I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you. But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ. Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying disgraces his head. But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved. For if a woman does not cover her head, let her also have her hair cut off; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head. For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man; for indeed man was not created for the womans sake, but woman for the mans sake. Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels. However, in the Lord, neither is woman independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. For as the woman originates from the man, so also the man has his birth through the woman; and all things originate from God. Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him, but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her for a covering. But if one is inclined to be contentious, we have no other practice, nor have the churches of God.

Notice again, the discrimination that Paul commands, is justified by the creation. He intended this to be universal, not just a local suggestion.

I believe it is instructive here to remember that Paul was an opportunistic charlatan who conveniently "converted" to Christianity years after the death of Jesus and used it as a means to establish himself as a big fish in a little pond and to impose his own petty opinions disguised as the word of God.

John

[JohnPaul]

I think the story of Lilith, the rebellious first wife of Adam, may be relevant here. I have written about her in a couple of other threads, but I will mention her again here.

Briefly, Lilith is the first woman created in Genesis 1:27 at the same time as Adam on the sixth day of creation, intended to share dominion of the earth equally with Adam. Eve was not created until later in Genesis 2:21, created in the Garden of Eden from Adam's rib and specifically intended only to serve as his "helpmeet."

It seems that Adam turned out to be an arrogant, domineering SOB, so Lilith rebelled and fled from the Garden of Eden. God then took pity on Adam and created a new woman for him, the docile and subservient Eve.

Christians claim that Lilith is not mentioned in the Bible, but the two stories in the Bible of the creation of the first woman take place at different times and places, for different purposes, and are obviously two very different women. It is easy to see why the patriarchal, politically self-serving committee of bishops who in the 4th century carefully selected and "interpreted" the material to be allowed into their Bible, would have preferred the story of the docile and subservient Eve to that of the proud and independent Lilith.

As with so many other ancient stories, Christians have hysterically demonized Lilith as nothing more than superstitious Jewish folklore. I am not Jewish, but I do wish upon you patriarchal Christians a visit from your demonized Lilith, who is said to fly on stormy nights and may enter cozy family homes to steal away the lives of newborn children.
Edit added - Lilith is permitted to do this by a covenant with the three angels God sent after her after she fled from Eden. Lilith may be prevented from entering a family home by posting the names of the three angels, Senoi, Sansenoi and Semangelof, over the door. Of course, this is mere Jewish superstition. Or is it?

Have a good day (or stormy night!)

John

[Confused]

Wow. So essentially, the consensus is that women weren't given any rights from day one. We were created FOR man. We are regarded as whores. We are here to serve. I am guessing I would have been beheaded rather early in life . I always was better at stirring the pot than I was at taking orders.