Deuteronomy declares that men who rape women should marry them, and the Quran promotes men marrying multiple wives, but not women marrying multiple men. How are we to understand these apparent injustices? Here is my answer:
http://mercyandmessiah.blogspot.ca/2013 ... bible.html
Injustice in the Quran and the Bible
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Goat
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Re: Injustice in the Quran and the Bible
Post #2jessehove wrote: Deuteronomy declares that men who rape women should marry them, and the Quran promotes men marrying multiple wives, but not women marrying multiple men. How are we to understand these apparent injustices? Here is my answer:
http://mercyandmessiah.blogspot.ca/2013 ... bible.html
Well, the term translated as 'rape' that is used in Deuteronomy is not neccesarily mean rape. There is some ambiguity about the term.. and COULD mean what we would call 'statutory rape'. A woman in that position can refuse to marry the man, but the man can not refuse to marry the woman. It's still a little barbaric, but not nearly as much as it being forcible rape.
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�
Steven Novella
Steven Novella
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keithprosser3
Post #4
You do not stress in your article that conditions under which there is an excess of women are more common than where there is an excess of men. War is a case in point, as the resulting slaughter of males leaves many women and orphans in a bad situation. Hence the need for polygyny was more urgent than for polyandry.
That said, there is plenty of other stuff in Islam that clearly shows unequal treatment between the sexes!
That said, there is plenty of other stuff in Islam that clearly shows unequal treatment between the sexes!
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Goat
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Post #5
Yes, for example, the execution of rape victims when they make an accusation.keithprosser3 wrote: You do not stress in your article that conditions under which there is an excess of women are more common than where there is an excess of men. War is a case in point, as the resulting slaughter of males leaves many women and orphans in a bad situation. Hence the need for polygyny was more urgent than for polyandry.
That said, there is plenty of other stuff in Islam that clearly shows unequal treatment between the sexes!
That certainly cuts down on the rape accusations.
Of course, then the woman gets excuted for out of wedlock sex if she gets pregnant.
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�
Steven Novella
Steven Novella
Post #6
Interesting Keith. This could also be why the Quran has explicit sadness and anger against those who murder infant girls..Sura 81 asks “when the female infant is buried alive, by what sin is she slain?�
Goat,
good thing Tamar outsmarted Judah, otherwise this would have been her fate!
Goat,
good thing Tamar outsmarted Judah, otherwise this would have been her fate!
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keithprosser3
Post #7
Do I detect a little sarcasm? While I have no cause to defend Islam, criticisms should be fair and based on some sort of reasoned scholarship, not quotes of out of context.This could also be why the Quran has explicit sadness and anger against those who murder infant girls..Sura 81 asks “when the female infant is buried alive, by what sin is she slain?�
I haven't found any Muslim commentators on Sura 81 who think that verse allows or supports murdering young girls. Islamic scholarship interprets it much more reasonably, for example,
The world does face a problem posed by Islamism. The problem will not be solved by deliberately - or possibly accidentally - mis-representating Islam. If that was not Jessehove intent, my apologies, but islamophobia is not the answer to Islamism - it just makes things worse.When the baby girl, buried alive, is asked,� this is a reference to a practice common in the Jahiliyyah where the ignorant would bury a female child alive for no reason other than the fear of poverty. She will be asked, “for what sin she was killed,� it is obvious that she is not guilty of any sin, but the question is asked rhetorically to censure and rebuke those who perpetrated this crime.
Post #8
No Sarcasm. The ethics of protecting and respecting young children has remained a monotheistic ethic throughout history.
http://mercyandmessiah.blogspot.ca/2012 ... ldren.html
http://mercyandmessiah.blogspot.ca/2012 ... ldren.html
Post #9
@ Jessehove
Jesse, Im finding it very hard to understand the point of many of your posts, having said that I can also see many things that are wrong with the information set forth in your posts including many misconceptions about Islam especially that Islam oppressors women, can you kindly shed some light on your stance. More to the point you have used a women that does not represent true Islam in order to justify what you have written on the topic, with all due respect maybe your intentions are not bad but Amina Wadud is a lady that believes that if you do not understand certain verses of the Quran you can reject it. I would not call this following the teachings of Islam rather this would be a clear statement of kufr. Another statement that this lady has made is that aids was spread by Islam. Does this sound logical? Such people would be considered a heretic, these people  go around arranging conferences in order to cause doubt in peoples minds about the Quran, a female feminist advocate something that is promoted by the west as we see the west always defending these people as if Islam oppressors women trying to liberate women from the chains of Islam. This is a women that gave a sermon and lead the prayer in a church I don't understand this equation do you?? In a church preaching Islam??? A lady leading the people in prayer in a mixed gathering?? turns out this lady doesn't even believe in parts of the Quran and wishes it could be changed. A further contradiction, how can God's laws be changed??? Be very careful in where you are getting your info from.
Jesse, Im finding it very hard to understand the point of many of your posts, having said that I can also see many things that are wrong with the information set forth in your posts including many misconceptions about Islam especially that Islam oppressors women, can you kindly shed some light on your stance. More to the point you have used a women that does not represent true Islam in order to justify what you have written on the topic, with all due respect maybe your intentions are not bad but Amina Wadud is a lady that believes that if you do not understand certain verses of the Quran you can reject it. I would not call this following the teachings of Islam rather this would be a clear statement of kufr. Another statement that this lady has made is that aids was spread by Islam. Does this sound logical? Such people would be considered a heretic, these people  go around arranging conferences in order to cause doubt in peoples minds about the Quran, a female feminist advocate something that is promoted by the west as we see the west always defending these people as if Islam oppressors women trying to liberate women from the chains of Islam. This is a women that gave a sermon and lead the prayer in a church I don't understand this equation do you?? In a church preaching Islam??? A lady leading the people in prayer in a mixed gathering?? turns out this lady doesn't even believe in parts of the Quran and wishes it could be changed. A further contradiction, how can God's laws be changed??? Be very careful in where you are getting your info from.
Post #10
I never said Islam oppressed women? Where do you get that? I agree with Amina Wadud that men and women are created equal based on Sura 4:1. I have never heard her reject any part of the Quran. I believe she was shown me the spirit of the Quran and its' ultimate intent.
I think God gives us law in a context and it up to us to try and faithfully interpret that context for today based on his larger principles of justice and mercy. If God gave us his law as something that is meant to remain static, despite its' 7th century context, why would we use different methodologies to interpret it? (ijma, Quyas, Ray` etc. Islam has always been interpreting God's law in a context.
I think God gives us law in a context and it up to us to try and faithfully interpret that context for today based on his larger principles of justice and mercy. If God gave us his law as something that is meant to remain static, despite its' 7th century context, why would we use different methodologies to interpret it? (ijma, Quyas, Ray` etc. Islam has always been interpreting God's law in a context.
