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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 1: Wed May 01, 2013 12:01 am
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If God is infinite, then he is everything.... right?

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If he is infinite, then no theistic opinion about God is wrong, even this statement.

It is likely that this deity doesn't exist, and since an infinite God is contradictory, it is probably less likely to be true. (Assuming basic laws of logic, our common presupposition).

Since, according to these laws of logic to be "True",the statement "God obtains" cannot be true, is true, and is also, possibly a quantum state (some "other").

Therefore, God does not exist.

The point of this line of inquiry, I suppose a purpose of this idea is to mull over the technicalities of how we arrive at basic assumptions about the world.

After all, we can't FIRST assume a God in order to prove a God exists. If we are trying to prove a God exists, we have to tip the balance in minds when they hear the actual logical argument.

The logical leap, to me, begins with both the Materialist and Supernaturalist. We don't REALLY know what things are made of, but if we go from what has been shown to be effective according to a large consensus of people that gravity works, and the natural laws appear to be consistent. The drama of nature, or the narrative of our lives appears to be a fact of our nature, and that's about all we know.

1. We are physical beings in this universe.
2. We can imagine real and unreal things.
3. We create narrative to ourselves and others to explain natural events, yet, the laws of nature cannot be translated accurately in the language of Man, but in the language of basic math.

We don't need to presume a God for any of them, and the Theist has to answer the question: "why is god a better answer for each of them, without presuming naturalism?"

Meanwhile, I don't think anything in the data shows any problem with the laws of nature being inviolable, and the dramas of our lives are the unique state of our Nature: we produce thoughts, narratives, and believe many things in metaphor, colloquialisms, and other tropes.

Tropes, and other games of words, twists of logic and other quirks as Man attempts to reflect Nature. We have at our disposal all the arts, and another quirk to our nature, the ability to imagine supernatural beings as if they are real.

Religion is a "greatest hits from mythology" in that religion (the process of creating a religion - a process unique to man, and neanderthals, apparently, and a few other Great Apes... And a few birds... And maybe elephants...) tries to capture a link to the conscience and codify it.

There are good reasons to do this, if you have some idea of your subjective position on "The Good" and how that fits into the larger scope of society's idea of "The Good". If you want to do Good, you find a reason to do it if it's not considered "Good" by society, increasingly to a point to being a psychopath. (There are ranges of experience that make morality, ultimately, an impossible task to normalize.)


Morality, like sight, is valuable to you, because it's valuable to you. We argue for that value by making our argument appear to have more weight than the converse.

The Theist comes up woefully short when they explain the basis of their provenance of their ideas: tradition.

In other words, the theist must presuppose the very characteristics of their God, in order to prove their God. Whereas, the naturalist only starts with the things we have a pretty good idea is true, through verification.

That cellphones work proves what Aristotle couldn't. Likewise, I doubt many people are going to challenge our model of the Solar System. And, genetics will never be overturned. These are really true things, it appears.

We are the awesomest of Apes, but Apes nonetheless. And that's OK.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 2: Wed May 01, 2013 12:50 am
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Re: If God is infinite, then he is everything.... right?

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[Replying to post 1 by Ooberman]

I say God is the Power of "infinite possibility".

Therefore "He" exists beyond everything.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 3: Wed May 01, 2013 1:42 am
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Re: If God is infinite, then he is everything.... right?

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YahDough wrote:

[Replying to post 1 by Ooberman]

I say God is the Power of "infinite possibility".

Therefore "He" exists beyond everything.



hOW DOES SOMETHING EXIST BEYOND EXISTENCE?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 4: Wed May 01, 2013 2:08 am
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Re: If God is infinite, then he is everything.... right?

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Ooberman wrote:

YahDough wrote:

[Replying to post 1 by Ooberman]

I say God is the Power of "infinite possibility".

Therefore "He" exists beyond everything.



hOW DOES SOMETHING EXIST BEYOND EXISTENCE?

Pay attention. I said beyond "everything".

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 5: Wed May 01, 2013 2:32 am
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Re: If God is infinite, then he is everything.... right?

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YahDough wrote:

Ooberman wrote:

YahDough wrote:

[Replying to post 1 by Ooberman]

I say God is the Power of "infinite possibility".

Therefore "He" exists beyond everything.



hOW DOES SOMETHING EXIST BEYOND EXISTENCE?

Pay attention. I said beyond "everything".



Don't theists define existence as something (which would be a part of everything)? Am I missing something?


And, if God exists beyond everything, include the ability to affect us, contact us, or interact with us, how is that different from not existing in any functional way?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 6: Wed May 01, 2013 2:50 am
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Re: If God is infinite, then he is everything.... right?

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[quote="Ooberman"]
YahDough wrote:

Ooberman wrote:

YahDough wrote:

[Replying to post 1 by Ooberman]

I say God is the Power of "infinite possibility".

Therefore "He" exists beyond everything.



hOW DOES SOMETHING EXIST BEYOND EXISTENCE?

Pay attention. I said beyond "everything".



Quote:
Don't theists define existence as something (which would be a part of everything)?

I don't know about other theists, but I think existence is really something. Praise God. But I wouldn't say it's everything or any"thing" for that matter.

Quote:
Am I missing something?

I think so.

Quote:
And, if God exists beyond everything, include the ability to affect us, contact us, or interact with us, how is that different from not existing in any functional way?

Maybe he wants us to contact Him.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 7: Wed May 01, 2013 3:21 am
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Re: If God is infinite, then he is everything.... right?

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YahDough wrote:

Pay attention.


That's the problem, I did.


Quote:
I don't know about other theists, but I think existence is really something.


vs.

Quote:
But I wouldn't say it's any"thing" for that matter.


It's something, but not anything?


Are you speaking in circles purposely?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 8: Wed May 01, 2013 3:36 am
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Re: If God is infinite, then he is everything.... right?

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[quote="Ooberman"]
YahDough wrote:

Pay attention.


Quote:
That's the problem, I did.



Quote:
I don't know about other theists, but I think existence is really something.


vs.

Quote:
But I wouldn't say it's any"thing" for that matter.


Quote:
It's something, but not anything?

Existence is not matter so it is not any"thing".


Quote:
Are you speaking in circles purposely?

No and yes.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 9: Wed May 01, 2013 11:42 am
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Is a person a thing?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 10: Wed May 01, 2013 12:16 pm
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Ooberman wrote:

Is a person a thing?

I would say no. A corpse without a soul might be.
What do you think?

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