Encouragements

[Jian^sia]

dear children, * *
Next time when you are defending Christianity, refrain from quoting from the Bible.

Do this so because the Bible is the Word of God to us. But to them it is rubbish.
(*Which* verse is this?)

So using Bible verses isn't *quite* necessary. You would just be *hitting blanks.

And I read somewhere that Paul wrote that the Bible would either strengthen your faith or harden your heart.
(Is this correct??*)

Wouldn't it, therefore, make matters even worse if we quote persistently and consistently from the Bible to non-believers.
Do we want to catch them or shoo them away?

Instead use your reasoning to defend Christianity. Be sure to be sound to the faith.

And if you really * need to use the Bible then use it.

*Perhaps you could quote wisely and eventfully. (As this is should be done debate-style)

Of course, there are times when you need to state a case from the Bible.

*deleted or changed accordingly

[otseng]

Instead use your reasoning knowledge to defend Christianity. Be sure to the sound to the faith. And if you really really need the Bible then use it. Of course, there are times when you need to state a case from the Bible..

I agree. Use logical arguments to present your case and, if need be, only use the Bible to support your arguments. Don't just simply say, "the Bible says so and that's it". That might work for someone who believes in the Bible, but it doesn't go far with someone who dismisses the Bible.

[adherent]

I dont agree.

If we have such little faith in our word, and are such ashamed, why bother to even spread the word.

The word is the cornerstone of our faith. In the first few verses of John, it says the word is God. So were going to use man-named principles (science) to prove what is beyond perception of our petty senses and not use God? Well that's beyond me. I prefer to use the Bible, if they reject the Bible, their rejecting God. Pretty simple.

[Rebel]

Quoting the Bible to unbelievers means nothing to them. In fact, I have found that it annoys them. Our arguments hold no weight if they are just Bible verses because they don't take them as truth.

It's not that we are ashamed of the Bible. We should use our rational minds when debating with them, so that it's not just from "our book." However, the truth is that you can't "think" your way all the way God. That, of course, is where faith comes in. And then, you might just have to use your Bible.

It's also important to remember that nothing we say is going to convince anyone that Christianity is true. God is the only one who changes hearts. It's not up to us.

[Icarus]

I disagree. Quoting is not the issue. How you quote is.

What does it matter if is "annoys" them? Throw a rock into a pack of dogs and the one that yelps loudest is the one who got hit. If annoyance is the standard than most of us on both sides of the issue should not post anything.

It seems to me from the few posts here, that the Bible is an unrational thing, by the comments that we should use our rational minds when debating. So what is so unrational in the Bible? Love your neighbor is unrational? Don't murder is unrational? et al.

I disagree with the myth that you can't argue someone into the faith. It is exactly what you do when you do street preaching or talking to your neighbor. Or any type of witnessing. It is arguing in a less formal structure, but it is still debating. And no it is not God who changes their heart, it is them. God certainly guides, pokes, prods and shows them, but God never forces someone to accept him.

The Bible itself states that "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God". Again, it is not that you quote the Bible it is how you go about doing it.

If you are "shooing" them away with your quoting, it is likely not that you are quoting it is how you are quoting. Are you using the hellfire and brimstone style? Fox hole attacking? Condescending? Have your fingers in your ears and just shouting scripture to them? Are you using it to fill the gaps that you yourself can't explain?

Instead use your reasoning to defend Christianity. Be sure to be sound to the faith.

Is not God the source for reason? Use what He has given us, in writing.

I don't understand the being sure to be sound to the faith.

[Rebel]

Hey Icarus,

I understand the point that you're trying to make. It DOESN'T matter is it annoys them. It's just that, if you annoy people it's just going to make them angry and their hearts hard to what you're even trying to say. And they don't believe the Bible. It means nothing to them, like I said before. Annoying someone is not what I'm worried about. It's whether I annoy them so much with using the Bible (which they don't take as truth) that they ignore me. I'm just speaking from experience, that's all. Well, indirect experience, if that makes any sense. Quoting the Bible is something I don't do unless necessary. I've been on many other religion and philosophy forums and seen other Christians do it. And they go shot down and told to just stop using verses. Their Bible verse arguments are getting them nowhere because they don't believe it. It's called circular reasoning. You have the premise that the Bible is true and base everything off of that. They don't. So it doesn't work. HOWEVER, I am not really on either side of the issue because I see the viewpoint from both and I can't decide what I think. The Word of God is sharper than any two-edged sword. And the Bible changes people. It's a very powerful book. So I'm undecided right now.

And I didn't say the Bible is an unrational thing. For the above stated reason (they don't believe it...it means nothing), we shouold use other proof and our mind to try to show proofs of God and Jesus. Because there ARE other proofs.

And the part where you said that God doesn't change peoples' hearts- they do. Well, that's where our theology is a different. But do you realize what you're saying when you're saying that God doesn't change hearts. You're basically saying that we save ourselves. When street preaching or talking to your neighbor (both of which I've done many times), I do not "argue" them into believing. THAT is not the way to do it. And if you ever led a person to Christ, would you feel like YOU were the one who did a good job and helped save the person. If you would or have, you shouldn't have been so proud of yourself. All you did was obey the Great Commission and you got the blessing of seeing God change a life. There are so many problems with the theory that we change our own hearts. The Bible says that we are DEAD in our transgressions. So, a dead corpse is gonna believe something? No, God changes us. But that's not the point of this thread.

No, when I do use Scripture, I do not use it "hellfire and brimstone style." I listen to people. People who go witnessing with me in malls tell me that I am not threatening at all. Which I think is good. The point is not to scare people into heaven. If that's why they repent, it might not be real. And frankly, it's not enough.

Have a spectacular day =-)

[Icarus]

Rebel,
My bad for only mentioning your name. I was also talking to some of the other posts. So my aplogies for the implication that you said or impied certain things. My bad for not editing. I agree with much of what you say. And I think we are on the same page for the most part.

My position is not that the Bible is quoted. It is how. I think that is where we differ. I'll use it in any debate as long as it can be done without appealing to authority (usually a fallacy).

But, I would like to chase the issue in another thread. Does God Change Our Hearts or Do We. I'll post it in this HHR side.


Thanks.