Was Paul gay?

[Ooberman]

In researching some of the claims made by anti-gay people, I kept coming across references to studies that show the most vehement against gay people usually have gay thoughts or feelings they either don't understand or don't like.

This seemed to much of a joke, but, lo, the studies have shown this.

Quote:
The authors investigated the role of homosexual arousal in exclusively heterosexual men who admitted negative affect toward homosexual individuals. Participants consisted of a group of homophobic men (n = 35) and a group of nonhomophobic men (n = 29); they were assigned to groups on the basis of their scores on the Index of Homophobia (W. W. Hudson & W. A. Ricketts, 1980).
The men were exposed to sexually explicit erotic stimuli consisting of heterosexual, male homosexual, and lesbian videotapes, and changes in penile circumference were monitored. They also completed an Aggression Questionnaire (A. H. Buss & M. Perry, 1992 ). Both groups exhibited increases in penile circumference to the heterosexual and female homosexual videos. Only the homophobic men showed an increase in penile erection to male homosexual stimuli. The groups did not differ in aggression. Homophobia is apparently associated with homosexual arousal that the homophobic individual is either unaware of or denies.


https://www.psychologytoday.com/files/u ... _et_al.pdf


Also, here is an interesting study:

Quote:


Personality and Emotional Correlates of Self-Reported Antigay Behaviors


Abstract

This study examined the relationship between the emotional response of homophobia and selected personality and self-report behavioral variables. Scales 4, 5, and 9 of the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory were related to the affective components of homophobia as measured by the Index of Attitudes Towards Homosexuals (IAH; formerly Index of Homophobia-Modified) and self-report of past aggressive behavior toward homosexuals as measured by a Self-Report of Behavior Scale (SBS), specifically developed for this study. Data from 80 male subjects were subjected to a canonical correlation analysis. The first cannonical correlation showed that high SBS and high IAH are correlated with adherence to traditional masculine values, not faking good, impulsivity, and social maladjustment. The second canonical correlation indicates that a combination of high scores on Scales 9 and 5 is associated with elevated SBS scores, but decreased IAH scores. These data suggest that among young men certain personality characteristics (Scales 9 and 5) compound homonegative affect and behavior.


http://jiv.sagepub.com/content/10/3/354.abstract

The MMPI:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_ ... _Inventory

The SBS:
https://docs.google.com/document/edit?i ... A3L0IGH_bh...

The IAH:
http://www.walmyr.com/IHPSAMPL.pdf

A study testing to see if the IAH was valid:


Quote:
Testing the reliability and validity of the Index of Attitudes Toward Homosexuals (IAH) in Australia.

Pain MD, Disney ME.

Department of Psychology, Monash University, Melbourne, Australia.
Abstract

Previous researchers have used a modified version of the Index of Attitudes toward Homosexuals (IAH; Hudson & Ricketts, 1980) and have reported their own reliability coefficients but relied on the authors' original validity data (Serdahely & Ziemba, 1984; Whitley, 1987; Ernulf, Innala, & Whitam, 1989; Rudolph, 1989, 1990). In order to determine if the IAH was a reliable and valid instrument in Australia, the psychometrics of this test were examined using a student population of comparable size to Hudson and Ricketts's sample. It was expected that the 150 students (92 males and 58 females) would respond in much the same way as their US counterparts. This research found the IAH to be reliable (r = .94) and valid for Australian populations and is a recommended instrument for measuring attitudes toward homosexual people.




What is interesting about the Personality and Emotional Correlates of Self-Reported Antigay Behaviors study is that antigay behavior is corrolated to "adherence to traditional masculine values, not faking good, impulsivity, and social maladjustment."

That is,

1. Manly-men who feel there are strict roles for the genders (I am reminded of Euphrates claim that only men can mow the lawn).

2. People who are less able to fake good behavior. So, even though society may tell them being kind to gay people is nice, they can't control themselves.

3. Impulsivity: speaks for itself.

4. Social maladjustment. Also speaks for itself.


All in all, here is the question: are homophobes bad for society? Should homophobes be arrested, locked up or perhaps changed via medical experimentation?

As the studies show, antigay behavior is associated with a number of negative attributes that endanger society.

For example, should they not be allowed to marry? Have children? Sign up for military service? should they have to wear big red X's?

What is societies role in limiting the negative affects of homophobic people?

What other studies can help us understand the science behind homophobia?

Is there a cure?

[Ooberman]

This was interesting:

"Only the homophobic men showed an increase in penile erection to male homosexual stimuli."


Questions to people who are opposed to homosexuality:

1. Do you get slightly aroused looking at naked men?
2. Were your parents authoritarian?

[bluethread]

Who is this Paul you are talking about and what does all of this have to do with him?

[bluethread]

This was interesting:

"Only the homophobic men showed an increase in penile erection to male homosexual stimuli."


Questions to people who are opposed to homosexuality:

1. Do you get slightly aroused looking at naked men?
2. Were your parents authoritarian?

No and no. So, if I sit in the chair on the left does that make me a pedophile?

[Ooberman]

This was interesting:

"Only the homophobic men showed an increase in penile erection to male homosexual stimuli."


Questions to people who are opposed to homosexuality:

1. Do you get slightly aroused looking at naked men?
2. Were your parents authoritarian?

No and no.

Hmm... I have no way of knowing if you are telling the truth, but maybe because your parents weren't authoritarian, you don't have the vehement reaction to homosexuality.

Why are you opposed to homosexuality, then? Because Paul told you to be?

[Goat]

It certainly is impossible to detriment at this point if Paul was homosexual or not. He certainly had issues when it comes to sexuality. One early church father claims that the Ebbonites claimed that Paul was a gentile that converted to Judaism to court the daughter of the high priest, and she rejected him.

If true. this could mean he was not gay (perhaps bisexual or in denial??). Of course, that chain of evidence is based on hearsay and very weak.

It's all speculation and hearsay..

[Ooberman]

It certainly is impossible to detriment at this point if Paul was homosexual or not. He certainly had issues when it comes to sexuality. One early church father claims that the Ebbonites claimed that Paul was a gentile that converted to Judaism to court the daughter of the high priest, and she rejected him.

If true. this could mean he was not gay (perhaps bisexual or in denial??). Of course, that chain of evidence is based on hearsay and very weak.

It's all speculation and hearsay..

Sure, and the same thing could be said about his alleged heterosexuality.

Also, I wonder if this means Phelps was more likely gay than not.

After all, the studies show that homophobic people are more likely gay (or have latent gay desires).

It's not that a few might be, but that it is highly correlative.

" Homophobia is apparently associated with homosexual arousal that the homophobic individual is either unaware of or denies. "



That is, these studies show if someone exhibits homophobic behavior, they most likely have homosexual desires.

This would suggest, then, that Paul was most likely a homosexual.

I'd suggest that Jesus probably wasn't, based on what he said.

[Ooberman]

BTW, I might add that these studies prove gay people are born. There are clearly people who have gay reactions to gay stimuli, but who don't think of themselves as gay.


Also, to address an interesting dichotomy. In my thread about "What is possible" bluethread made the salient point that we can't know something unless we have the data.

Since the data suggests Paul was gay, we can guess he was.

[bluethread]

BTW, I might add that these studies prove gay people are born. There are clearly people who have gay reactions to gay stimuli, but who don't think of themselves as gay.


Also, to address an interesting dichotomy. In my thread about "What is possible" bluethread made the salient point that we can't know something unless we have the data.

Since the data suggests Paul was gay, we can guess he was.

What data?

[bluethread]

This was interesting:

"Only the homophobic men showed an increase in penile erection to male homosexual stimuli."


Questions to people who are opposed to homosexuality:

1. Do you get slightly aroused looking at naked men?
2. Were your parents authoritarian?

No and no.

Hmm... I have no way of knowing if you are telling the truth, but maybe because your parents weren't authoritarian, you don't have the vehement reaction to homosexuality.

Why are you opposed to homosexuality, then? Because Paul told you to be?

If I would have answered the questions differently, would you have questioned whether or not I was telling the truth?

No, I am opposed to it because HaTorah appears to oppose it, Paul just more clearly identifies it as a practice of the nations that Adonai does not approve of. Also, I personally find it objectionable. With regard to the nations I take a don't ask don't tell approach. With regard to those who claim to be Adonai's people, I have no problem confronting the pork eater who opposes homosexuality.