What is our Universe Status?

[Bro Dave]

Are we all Citizens of this Universe? Or are we just egotistical virus' living on a speck of space dust? Are all those innumerable stars and galaxies really just sky decorations? Or are we someone elses "decorations" as well?

http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java ... index.html

Bro Dave

[McCulloch]

Are we all Citizens of this Universe? Or are we just egotistical virus' living on a speck of space dust? Are all those innumerable stars and galaxies really just sky decorations? Or are we someone elses "decorations" as well?

Are we all Citizens of this Universe?

• No. citizenship implies some sort of administrative organization. Since there is no evident administrative organization, there is no univeral citizenship.

Are we just egotistical virus' living on a speck of space dust?

• our biology is somewhat more complex than that of a virus. Our species has demonstrated increadible egotism in its belief that the God of the vast universe would sacrifice his only son so that we might have an eternal existence with him. As your link so aptly demonstrates, we do live on a speck of space dust.

Are all those innumerable stars and galaxies really just sky decorations?

• No. Decorations imply a purpose. The stars are no more decorations than the sea or the beach. Beautiful, yes. Decoration. No.

Are we someone elses "decorations" as well?

• Hard to tell, isn't it?

[bernee51]

Are we all Citizens of this Universe? Or are we just egotistical virus' living on a speck of space dust? Are all those innumerable stars and galaxies really just sky decorations? Or are we someone elses "decorations" as well?

Are we all Citizens of this Universe?

• No. citizenship implies some sort of administrative organization. Since there is no evident administrative organization, there is no univeral citizenship.

I hereby decree that McC is Master (and by default, Chief Administrative Officer) of the Universe.

Any chance of political asylum?

OTOH: Citizen: A native, inhabitant, or denizen of a particular place: “We have learned to be citizens of the world, members of the human community” (Franklin D. Roosevelt).

On that basis we (homo sapiens) could be citizens of the universe, along with all the same rights, privledges and responsibilities of all the other citizens.

Are we just egotistical virus' living on a speck of space dust?

[*]our biology is somewhat more complex than that of a virus. Our species has demonstrated increadible egotism in its belief that the God of the vast universe would sacrifice his only son so that we might have an eternal existence with him. As your link so aptly demonstrates, we do live on a speck of space dust.

More of a parasite in general than a virus specifically.

Ego isn't the problem - attachment to it is the hard part to toss.

Are all those innumerable stars and galaxies really just sky decorations?

• No. Decorations imply a purpose. The stars are no more decorations than the sea or the beach. Beautiful, yes. Decoration. No.

And I'm told there are more neural junctions in the human neocortex than there are stars in the universe. And most of it is 'space'. That's something to ponder.

Are they just for decoration?

To know the taste of the ocean you only need a drop.

Are we someone elses "decorations" as well?

• Hard to tell, isn't it?

No - we are our own decoration. Assuming we have a purpose.

So in answer to the question: What is our universe status?

Evolving.

[Zarathustra]

I don't think "citizen of the Universe" and "virus on space dust" are mutually exclusive options. Everything that is in the Universe is a Citizen of the Universe. The best of the perks is that you have no obligation, you have no rexponsibilities to the other citizens. Certainly, many humans take it upon themselves to use their citizenship to it's fullest extent, however. The only "entity" that has no business with the Universe is the God of Christianity. God does not reside in it's confines, He cannot be a citizen.

Decorations? Yes, anything beautiful can be considered decoration. "Just decoration"? Perhaps not.

[The Persnickety Platypus]

I like the notion that we are completely insubstantial to the grand scheme; merely a boundlessly mininscule detail of the infinite aggregation. Makes my petty personal problems wane in comparison. Nothing relieves stress like a good star-gaze.

It is impossible to determine our signifigance whilst stuck in a first-person perspective, of course. But it seems arrogant to assume we are anything of special merit, especially when we cannot objectively determine what else is out there. There may be an infinite number of intelligent civilizations in a theoretical open universe.



I assume you meant to put this in the philosophy subforum? That is where I am going to move it, unless there is some Christian relevance I missed, in which case we can move it back.

[Bro Dave]

I like the notion that we are completely insubstantial to the grand scheme; merely a boundlessly mininscule detail of the infinite aggregation. Makes my petty personal problems wane in comparison. Nothing relieves stress like a good star-gaze.

So, did you enjoy this Cosmic Zoom as well? Not nearly as serene as a cool clear night, but for me at least, it had quite an impact!

It is impossible to determine our signifigance whilst stuck in a first-person perspective, of course.

It could be argued that first-person perspective is the ULTIMATE perspective, in the eternal now.

But it seems arrogant to assume we are anything of special merit, especially when we cannot objectively determine what else is out there. There may be an infinite number of intelligent civilizations in a theoretical open universe.

We seem to stumble between arrogance, and total self deprecation. We stand dead center between the most massive and the tiniest components of the Universe. We are significant, within our limitations..

I assume you meant to put this in the philosophy subforum? That is where I am going to move it, unless there is some Christian relevance I missed, in which case we can move it back.

Actually, I hoped to illicit the Christian perspective, after the viewing of the link. However, this would indeed be quite at home in Philosophy. Your call.

Bro Dave

[Bro Dave]

I don't think "citizen of the Universe" and "virus on space dust" are mutually exclusive options. Everything that is in the Universe is a Citizen of the Universe. The best of the perks is that you have no obligation, you have no responsibilities to the other citizens.

I hereby revoke your Citizenship! Oh, I'm sorry, you did not say you were a good Citizen.

Certainly, many humans take it upon themselves to use their citizenship to it's fullest extent, however. The only "entity" that has no business with the Universe is the God of Christianity. God does not reside in it's confines, He cannot be a citizen.

Strangely, I sort-of concure! The Creator is not a superset of his creation, and therefore is technically a Citizen. However, I think you'll have difficulty getting Him tossed out!

Bro Dave

[bernee51]

It is impossible to determine our signifigance whilst stuck in a first-person perspective, of course.

It could be argued that first-person perspective is the ULTIMATE perspective, in the eternal now.

And the ONLY perspective - once it realized it encompasses the others.

One Taste - as the Tibetans call it.

We are significant, within our limitations..

And despite our limitations

[Bro Dave]

No - we are our own decoration. Assuming we have a purpose.

So in answer to the question: What is our universe status?

Evolving.

All these "directional" words! "Purpose", and "evolve"; Do they not imply the unfolding of an underlying "plan"? The mindless dashing about suggested by an unordered Universe just seems absurd to me. I still need a rule maker to get it all within reason. Of course, my "viral" level of comprehension is hardly capable of grasping the reality or totality of such a plan, or such a planner, so I understand your reticense to embracing such a concept, especially from an "arms-length" isolation.

Bro Dave

[bernee51]

No - we are our own decoration. Assuming we have a purpose.

So in answer to the question: What is our universe status?

Evolving.

All these "directional" words! "Purpose", and "evolve"; Do they not imply the unfolding of an underlying "plan"?

I never assumed a purpose.

As for evolution..the machine is the plan. We are driven, by evolution, to evolve. No plan, no purpose.

The mindless dashing about suggested by an unordered Universe just seems absurd to me. I still need a rule maker to get it all within reason.

Why not change your concepts instead?