Human sacrifice

[Zzyzx]

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Christians often condemn human sacrifice and use it as justification for slaughtering competing religious groups and societies.

However, Christians glorify the sacrifice (called "martyrdom") of their namesake and other religious notables. Supposedly the "martyrdom" was often done willingly "to serve god."

How is that different from "pagan" sacrifices to their "gods?"

[bluethread]

One, is the killing of a human for something that human approves of and is disapproved of by his killers. The other is the killing of a human for a purpose that the killers approve of, regardless of whether that human approves of, or even knows of it.

[connermt]

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Christians often condemn human sacrifice and use it as justification for slaughtering competing religious groups and societies.

However, Christians glorify the sacrifice (called "martyrdom") of their namesake and other religious notables. Supposedly the "martyrdom" was often done willingly "to serve god."

How is that different from "pagan" sacrifices to their "gods?"

It's illogical to me to kill a living being for another supreme being that may or may not be. If a god (any god) is truly worthy, it's above the simple means humans can 'do'. It should be more concerned with what humans 'are', if it cares at all.

To the point, the only difference are the people involved. Both instances boil down to the fundamentals of one life taking another for another. Sure one can attribute this or that to it, but when it all comes down to it, it's killing.Both are detestable to me and, IMO, should be shunned by all.

In regards to "martyrdom" it's simple a way to excuse a barbaric person's need to kill or even be killed for someone or thing.

But with most any religion, christianity can justify any action.

[Divine Insight]

My objection to Christianity is that it has God demanding that we condone the horrible crucifixion of a supposedly perfectly innocent sinless man (or demigod) to pay for our sins, or our atonement, or our opportunity to obtain "Grace".

For me this is basically God demanding that we condone that which I personally deem to be immoral. I would not condone voluntary martyrdom by anyone to pay for my behavior. I would much rather be held responsible for my own behavior and be asked to make restitution. I will gladly make restitution for my own immoral behavior.

Christianity is saying that God absolutely forbids a human to accept moral responsibility and instead God demands that we must accept the crucifixion of a purely innocent man, or demigod in our place.

In my view this is not the behavior I would expect from a God who is supposedly concerned with moral responsibility.

So I would need to reject the demands of this God if it were real in any case. I would have no choice but to voluntarily be condemned.

Of course, I don't believe that an "all-righteous" God would ever make such an unreasonable ultimatum. Therefore I have no reason to believe that Christianity is true in the first place.

Why should I believe that a supposedly "all-righteous" God would demand that do something highly immoral (i.e. condone the crucifixion of an innocent entity on my behalf) rather than demanding that I accept moral responsibility myself?

It makes no sense. That does not equate to a God that gives a hoot about moral responsibility.

Christianity is ultimately immoral. It's based on an immoral concept to begin with.

It also flatly reject the concept of "Moral Responsibility". Ironically moral responsibility is actually forbidden in Christianity. If you are willing to take moral responsibility for your own actions you are considered to be the greatest heathen of all deserving of eternal damnation.

Christianity is an insult to all that is moral and good.

[Zzyzx]

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One, is the killing of a human for something that human approves of and is disapproved of by his killers.

This would apply to most executions. Does that make the victims "martyrs" or heroes?

The other is the killing of a human for a purpose that the killers approve of, regardless of whether that human approves of, or even knows of it.

This would apply to most conflict / war killing. Are the victims martyrs / heroes?

[JoeyKnothead]

I'm all for the sacrificing of certain pop music stars in order that good music may once again rule the airwaves

I'm for sacrificing the rapist, as a message to his proponents. I'm for sacrificing the thief, who stole my stuff. I'm for sacrificing ISIS on general principle.

I'm for sacrificing those who prey on others. Like certain 'preachers' who think nothing of taking some old lady's welfare check in promise of her "getting right with God".

If only to me, human sacrifice ain't it near the problem, as picking the wrong one for it is.

[ttruscott]

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Christians often condemn human sacrifice and use it as justification for slaughtering competing religious groups and societies.

However, Christians glorify the sacrifice (called "martyrdom") of their namesake and other religious notables. Supposedly the "martyrdom" was often done willingly "to serve god."

How is that different from "pagan" sacrifices to their "gods?"

Pagans sacrifice their 'innocent' kids to prove their worth and commitment to their heathen god.

The divine Christ sacrificed Himself to free us for the legal condemnation we had in GOD's sight and thereby make us worthy for GOD to work with us to break our addiction to sin and to sanctify us and make us holy.

His death cleared us of all legal obligations to provide our own death and made us righteous, in Him, before GOD so HE could look at us and deal with us. Thus GOD became open to bring us to become heaven ready,

Peace, Ted

[ttruscott]

My objection to Christianity is that it has God demanding that we condone the horrible crucifixion of a supposedly perfectly innocent sinless man (or demigod) to pay for our sins, or our atonement, or our opportunity to obtain "Grace".

Christ came to die for our sins so we could be saved from the judgment and our addiction to evil.

This continual denigration of His work on our behalf marks out the anti-Christ, trying to destroy our faith in His work.

Our interpretation of His death on our behalf to save us is not just what we believe but is what is clearly written while your interpretation of the doctrine misses the mark of what is written to delve into anti-Christian fantasy.

[dianaiad]

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Christians often condemn human sacrifice and use it as justification for slaughtering competing religious groups and societies.

However, Christians glorify the sacrifice (called "martyrdom") of their namesake and other religious notables. Supposedly the "martyrdom" was often done willingly "to serve god."

How is that different from "pagan" sacrifices to their "gods?"

I think that the first difference would be something called 'consent." That is, martyrs are those who could have avoided their deaths, but chose them rather than betray their beliefs.

Pagan sacrifices to their gods were not, as a rule, much concerned about the consent if the sacrificee. A few were, yes...but as a general rule?

Not so much.

As for the 'martyr' thing, ...hmmn. I don't think you can put 'martyr' in the same category as 'sacrifice to a god.' Generally a martyr becomes so because of some action by those who oppose one's belief system, whereas a sacrifice is performed by those who agree with it.

[Zzyzx]

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The divine Christ sacrificed Himself

According to the tale Jesus, who is one-third of God, sacrificed himself to the rest of himself and the "sacrifice" was three days of inconvenience(?) that was known to be reversed soon.

That doesn't sound like much of a "sacrifice."

to free us for the legal condemnation we had in GOD's sight

The God sets the conditions, knows the outcome, charges all with "sins." Right?

Then the God "sacrifices" himself (or part of himself) for three days, reverses the condition, and everything is set right in his eyes. Right?

and thereby make us worthy for GOD to work with us to break our addiction to sin and to sanctify us and make us holy.

Since the "addiction to sin" hasn't ceased, the plan didn't work very well (for a supposedly omniscient entity).

His death cleared us of all legal obligations to provide our own death and made us righteous,

If the "death" of Jesus made us all righteous, why are we not all righteous?


Doesn't the whole tale seem much more likely to be a myth or legend than to be a truthful and accurate account of events and motivations?