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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 1: Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:11 am
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Surrogacy

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Hi all,

It's been getting some very bad press in Australia lately with pedophiles taking advantage of it and other families simply rejecting a child who had Down syndrome.

Is surrogacy the type of transaction we want between humans where a rich human pays a poor human for their body?

I have to say I'm against it.

What's your view on surrogacy? Right or wrong?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 2: Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:29 am
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Re: Surrogacy

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Wootah wrote:

Hi all,

It's been getting some very bad press in Australia lately with pedophiles taking advantage of it and other families simply rejecting a child who had Down syndrome.

Is surrogacy the type of transaction we want between humans where a rich human pays a poor human for their body?

I have to say I'm against it.

What's your view on surrogacy? Right or wrong?


I don't think it's right or wrong, but a poor and maybe even selfish choice to make. There are MORE than enough homeless and parentless kids that can be adopted so the only need for surrogacy is selfish one to me.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 3: Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:54 am
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Are you referring to the same thing as I'm thinking?
Surrogacy as in giving birth 'on behalf' of someone else?

I don't see anything wrong with it at all - I should point out, It is not legal to profit from surrogacy in the UK. It's free aside from expenses the surrogate would incur (which you may or may not be expected to pay);
E.g. (surrogacyUK):
Quote:

You need to consider the travel costs for when the surrogate and her family come to see you, and for her travel to and from the fertility clinic or hospital; loss of earnings may need to be paid; money for maternity clothing may be required and childcare may need to be arranged for when the surrogate mother is away from her own children.

(This is for surrogacy UK's services - of course someone may freely choose to be a surrogate on your behalf and pay their own expenses)

This might also be important:
Quote:

Once a child is born the surrogate has no obligation to give him or her up. Until legal rights to the child are transferred using a parental order, the birth is registered with the surrogate mother's name and, if she's married, her husband's name - even if the husband isn't related to the child in any way. Only if the surrogate is unmarried can a biological father be immediately registered.
(BBC)

Surrogacy is a decision that both involved need a great deal of trust for, but I don't see it as infringing the rights for either to pull out of the deal. It can cause a lot of emotional distress, but a lot of the time I think both sides would be well within their own rights (certainly they are within legal rights) to withdraw. The surrogate needs to keep in mind that the couple/other may change their mind - and the couple/other need to keep in mind that the surrogate might change their mind.

The surrogate should always be ready to either abort (if early in pregnancy) or to raise a new child. The couple/other also need to realise that the baby is the surrogate's until the legal paperwork is done.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 4: Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:24 pm
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Re: Surrogacy

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Wootah wrote:

Hi all,

It's been getting some very bad press in Australia lately with pedophiles taking advantage of it and other families simply rejecting a child who had Down syndrome.

Is surrogacy the type of transaction we want between humans where a rich human pays a poor human for their body?

I have to say I'm against it.

What's your view on surrogacy? Right or wrong?


Well I am a surrogate father. A couple that were close friends couldn't have a child due to sterility of the husband. I was the surrogate father for their 1st child. For there later children, they used the husband's younger brother. He was not old enough for their eldest child.

So I have a biological son that didn't even know I was his father until he was 17 yrs old. His parents finally told their children because of problems being caused by the younger brother bringing gifts and special treatment of the 3 children he was the surrogate for while considering the eldest child as a bastard not worthy of the surname.

I have never met my son but have spoken to him on the phone. He lives across the country from me.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 5: Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:10 am
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Re: Surrogacy

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[Replying to Wootah]

I think the idea of surrogacy is fine as there are people who want kids but can't due to medical reason or whatever. As far as the other reply regarding adopting. Why should I adopt? Sure it would be nice to but I don't see why people have to. Some people just want their genes or pass on so I think that's fine. Of course there are always gonna be people abusing the system specifically those pedophile. The solution then is not to banned it but have more law to ensure the safety of the babies.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 6: Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:45 pm
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Re: Surrogacy

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Wootah wrote:

Hi all,

It's been getting some very bad press in Australia lately with pedophiles taking advantage of it and other families simply rejecting a child who had Down syndrome.

Is surrogacy the type of transaction we want between humans where a rich human pays a poor human for their body?

I have to say I'm against it.

What's your view on surrogacy? Right or wrong?

It's wrong but not for the indicated reasons.
With so many unwanted children in the world, adoption should be the only legal option.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 7: Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:05 pm
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Re: Surrogacy

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Youkilledkenny wrote:


It's wrong but not for the indicated reasons.
With so many unwanted children in the world, adoption should be the only legal option.


I really, really dislike this way of thinking. Adoption is not an automatic substitute for having biological children.
Adoption is an entirely different process of having children, with its own unique set of challenges and emotional reactions, and should not be considered "exactly the same as" having children the biological way. It is not, and to think that it is, is over-simplifying, and frankly, I think irresponsible.
I agree that adoption is a wonderful, beautiful, exciting and loving way to have children - for some people. It's not for everyone. Those people who really, truly want to adopt, well I think they absolutely should! But only because they really, truly want to, not because it's the only (legal) option available.

Surrogacy also brings its own unique set of challenges, and is also not right for everyone. But having different options available is the point here. For some people, having biological children the usual way, even if they are able to, may not be their best option either. The decision whether or not to have children is an important one. Just as important is the way you go about it. Having biological children, adoption, surrogacy, sperm or egg donor - these are not interchangeable ideas.

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MPG Recipient Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 8: Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:43 pm
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Re: Surrogacy

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Wootah wrote:

Hi all,

It's been getting some very bad press in Australia lately with pedophiles taking advantage of it and other families simply rejecting a child who had Down syndrome.

Is surrogacy the type of transaction we want between humans where a rich human pays a poor human for their body?

I have to say I'm against it.

What's your view on surrogacy? Right or wrong?


I look at surrogacy in the same way as prostitution or pornography, that is people should have the right to do what they want with their bodies, including using them to make money if they want to. The problem with all of these is that there is so much potential for exploitation and abuse.
As you pointed out, the thought of rich humans paying poor humans for their body is upsetting. But then, how is surrogacy any different in that light from prostitution? I wonder how many people become prostitutes because it's their career of choice and life ambition, versus how many get into it simply because it's a way to make money? Does that make it wrong? It's an upsetting idea to me, but I don't think I have the right to tell someone else what they can or cannot do with their body, so long as they are not hurting anyone else.
So then, is someone who chooses to use their body to make a baby for someone else wrong, even if they are only doing it for the money? I don't think so, for the same reasons.
As far as the other examples you brought up about pedophiles and people rejecting babies - well, pedophiles will find other ways to get close to kids even if you take away the surrogacy option, and some people will reject their own children with disabilities even if it had nothing to do with surrogacy. I think those are problems that should be dealt with on their own, not as a problem with surrogacy itself.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 9: Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:41 pm
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Yahu wrote:

Well I am a surrogate father. A couple that were close friends couldn't have a child due to sterility of the husband. I was the surrogate father for their 1st child.

I can't believe he let ya do it. I'da been furious.

Tomato

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 10: Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:49 am
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Re: Surrogacy

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Genevieve wrote:

Wootah wrote:

Hi all,

It's been getting some very bad press in Australia lately with pedophiles taking advantage of it and other families simply rejecting a child who had Down syndrome.

Is surrogacy the type of transaction we want between humans where a rich human pays a poor human for their body?

I have to say I'm against it.

What's your view on surrogacy? Right or wrong?


I look at surrogacy in the same way as prostitution or pornography, that is people should have the right to do what they want with their bodies, including using them to make money if they want to. The problem with all of these is that there is so much potential for exploitation and abuse.
As you pointed out, the thought of rich humans paying poor humans for their body is upsetting. But then, how is surrogacy any different in that light from prostitution? I wonder how many people become prostitutes because it's their career of choice and life ambition, versus how many get into it simply because it's a way to make money? Does that make it wrong? It's an upsetting idea to me, but I don't think I have the right to tell someone else what they can or cannot do with their body, so long as they are not hurting anyone else.
So then, is someone who chooses to use their body to make a baby for someone else wrong, even if they are only doing it for the money? I don't think so, for the same reasons.
As far as the other examples you brought up about pedophiles and people rejecting babies - well, pedophiles will find other ways to get close to kids even if you take away the surrogacy option, and some people will reject their own children with disabilities even if it had nothing to do with surrogacy. I think those are problems that should be dealt with on their own, not as a problem with surrogacy itself.


I know this is an oldish thread . . . but recently I watched a docu about the 'surrogacy services' as they exist in India. The docu followed two or three Indian women, all of low caste taking advantage of making 5K to 7.5K (for twins) to be surrogates for Americans, Australians and Europeans. The name of the docu for anyone interested is "Made in India: A Film About Surrogacy". I paid three dollars to 'rent' it one night and was deeply moved by BOTH sides of the story (there are way more than two sides but anyway).

I agree with what Genevieve had to say so quoted it along with. I really resonated with what she said about legislating what other people do with their bodies to make a living for themselves, which is exactly what's happening in India. I also followed along with the Baby Gammy story referred to in the OP. What I think about the Australian couple (Gammy's bio parents) who apparently abandoned him and the bio-dad being a convicted sex offender of children isn't fit for a polite forum.

In particular, what I think about it, or believe about it, is not relevant. There are people knocking each other down to secure a surrogate so they can have their own biological children. I won't have them myself, I doubt my children will, and other than that it's even less 'my business'.

As a rule I don't vote against 'choices', like birth control, abortion, legalized sex work, etc. If I don't like it or agree with it, I don't do it. This is not a slippery slope in my mind whatsoever. We draw 'lines' all the time, and the lines shift around for better or worse, but mostly better.

In this documentary, the bias was clearly for the plight of the Indian women. Even so, their plight was presented very fairly and matter of factly. Cut to the operating room, where you see a pile of fabric with a lump in the middle -- that's the newly c-sectioned surrogate mother of twins, left alone in her drowsy post-operative stupor, while the docs move to the next room and the nurses settle in the infants. It was a heartwrenching scene. No narration, no nothing, just a non state-of-the-art surgical suite with a 'forgotten now that she's been used' Indian woman emptied of her 'product'.

5K can buy a home in India AND inventory for a small shop for a family business. From a tin shack in the 'ghetto' to a 'middle class' home with a window shop closer into the city is an opportunity I know I'd have gone for. That's more money than could be made in years for the lowest castes.

The remaining 30 to 40K goes to the clinic and it's doctors and employees and the medical care and boarding for the pregnant women in residence.

Happy Japanese parents picking up their little newborn Japanese biological twins and kissing the tearful surrogate mom goodbye made me tearful too. But so did the pile of fabric on the operating table.

The Buddhists have a word for 'this life': Samsara. There's ALWAYS gonna be stuff. Get rid of one problem, and there's another one waiting in the wings. I don't see how disallowing international surrogacy is going to HELP ANYONE have fewer problems.

Legislating against this is like legislating against stupidity. Legislating against SOME choices creates more problems than having the choice in the first place would have made.

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