Why are Jews persecuted?

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jeager106
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Why are Jews persecuted?

Post by jeager106 »

I'm not anti-sematic. I only know one Jewish couple and like them a lot.
Both are friendly, open, kind, successful, intelligent.
I know quite a bit about the Nazi revolution of WWII and Jews were a very convenient scape goat for Hilter.
But Jews have been persecuted all over the world from ancient times to present.
I don't understand the "why" for that.
Reading the O.T. informs the reader that the God's chosen people seem to have a long history of straying from God and being punished by God.
A sub question for the reader is; where do the Jews come from?
From Abraham? Did Abraham set out to start the Jewish religion?
I doubt that.
Where, as in what tribe, group, did Abraham hail from?
Can Abraham be trace back to the survivors of the Great Flood?
Today the nation of Israel is populated by only about 6.4 million Jews.
They are surrounded by 322 million islamics that would be only too happy to kill every Jew on the planet.
That's a horrific thought.
I understand the argument over establishing the Jewish state, the argument over ownership of the desert armpit of the world, but the desire of islam to destroy the Jew isn't rooted in land ownership, it's deeply religious in motive.
So why are Jews so persecuted?

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bluethread
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Post by bluethread »

The problem with your main question is that it is a why question. As one child psychologist has stated, the only real answer to a why question is that it seemed like a good idea at the time. Some people, for a variety of reasons, just think that persecuting Jewish people is a good idea.

Regarding your sub questions, a Jewish person is a descendent of the tribe of Yehudah or Benyamin, and/or someone who is part of a group who accepts the Tanakh as Scripture and is acknowledged by that group. Since Avraham was the great grandfather of Yehudah and Benyamin, he was not Jewish. However, Judaism is based on the Covenant that Adonai made with Avraham. Also, yes, Avraham is traced back to Noach, in Genesis 10. I hope that helps.

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Post by Wootah »

I've got religious answers and historical ones.

If you remotely believe the Bible is true then one imagines that the Devil and the World both have reason enough to hate the Jews. Paul writes that Christians smell like death

2 Cor 2:16 - To those who are being lost, this perfume smells like death, and it brings them death.

So people not of God hate people of God.

Then if you study Islam you have a fairly large enmity to Jews from Islam.

Then when Islam was in its conquering phase the
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Post by McCulloch »

Christian antisemitism is easy to understand. According to the Christian New Testament, all if the founders of the Christian faith were Jews. Christians believe that Jesus was the messiah predicted by the Jewish scriptures. They claim that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob has made a new covenant and has a new and different relationship with humanity than before. More than half of the Christian Bible is Jewish scripture.
The continued existence of the Jewish religion is a constant reminder that there is a different and older way to read and understand their own scriptures than Christian theology.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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Divine Insight
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Re: Why are Jews persecuted?

Post by Divine Insight »

jeager106 wrote: So why are Jews so persecuted?
Who are they persecuted by? That's probably a far more revealing question.

For the most part Jews are "persecuted" by other Abrahamic factions.

Hitler and the Nazi regime could be claimed to be the "exception" to this. Although I think there exists a lot of evidence that Hitler was indeed a Catholic, at least in terms of indoctrination. So Hitler would have "Christian" support for his hatred of the Jews.

Hitler's actual hatred for the Jews may have simply been that he saw them as unwanted "immigrants" into Germany.

Let's face it. Persecution of unwanted immigrants is quite common. The Jews certainly aren't unique in being a persecuted group. Moreover, if people could persecute other groups using say, Christianity or Islam as an excuse, I'm sure they wouldn't hesitate to do that. Christianity is currently being used to persecute against gays.

I'm not personally convinced that Jews have been persecuted anymore than many other groups. Many pagans have been persecuted by Christianity, and no doubt by Islam as well.

The North American Indians were certainly persecuted at least as bad as the Jews.

I don't see where the Jews hold any special patent rights to being prosecuted.

And like I say, often time when they are prosecuted it by other factions of the Abrahamic religion anyway. So this is just a single religious myth that has become its own worst enemy.

I've heard may Eastern Mystics refer to the Abrahamic religions, (i.e. Jews, Christians and Muslims) as basically being nothing more than a "Family Feud" between people of the Middle East, all fighting over the right to "Own God".

I think this is a common view of the Middle East by people in the Far East. And rightfully so. These Abrahamic religions are basically a "Family Feud" over who "Owns God". The Jews just happen to be in the minority so they tend to get beat up historically by Christians and Muslims more often than the other way around.
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jeager106
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Post by jeager106 »

Divine Insight said:I don't see where the Jews hold any special patent rights to being prosecuted.

Did you mean persecuted? Tho I suspect prosecuted works fine for this subject.
I understand about immigrants, minorities, being persecuted but not for thousands of years.
I know the American Indians took a beating from white Christians tho I doubt it was a religious persecution. I can see arguments that would support it was religious.
However, I don't know of any religious group persecuted for thousands of years or any religious group where there were 6 million exterminated with extreme determination.
I know of no other group that is/was persecuted world wide and over centuries.
Enlighten me please as I'm not nearly as educated as you nor as smart. :study:
When dealing with me please understand that I was indoctrinated with a primitive
religion thus handicapped. :? :?

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Divine Insight
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Post by Divine Insight »

jeager106 wrote: I know of no other group that is/was persecuted world wide and over centuries.
Enlighten me please as I'm not nearly as educated as you nor as smart. :study:
When dealing with me please understand that I was indoctrinated with a primitive
religion thus handicapped. :? :?
I promise to take it easy on you. ;)

I think one major problem with your concern is that you are singling out the Jews as a very specific "group" whilst not necessarily recognizing the commonalities they might have with other groups.

Let's take the example of Nazi Germany. Hitler's main motivation against the Jews was most likely because he saw them as "unwanted immigrants" who weren't "True Germans" in his mind.

You see this as being a persecution specifically aimed at "Jews". But it was most likely just another immigration issue. The immigrants just happened to be Jews in this particular case.

~~~~~

In fact, if you stop and think about this, this actually explains why Jews would seem to be persecuted more often than other groups.

It's really quite simple.

The Jews were being persecuted for the same reasons everyone else is persecuted. So on that count they should be persecuted the same amount as everyone else right?

So not just ADD to that the fact that they were also being constantly persecuted by Christianity and Islam and you have your answer. That would explain why they appear to have been persecuted more than some other groups.

I'm quite sure that many pagans would not agree that the Jews were persecuted by Christianity anymore than they were.

I think the thing that really stands out as the sore thumb for the Jews was indeed the events of Nazi Germany. But that can easily be explained by just recognizing that they happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

If the Jews hadn't been there and some other large population of immigrants that didn't seem like "Germans" to Hitler were their he probably would have been killing them instead.

I think the Jews in Nazi Germany was just a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Christianity might have played some role inciting Hitler to pick on the Jews. After all Hitler was a Catholic. That probably wasn't his major motivation, but it might have been the justification he needed to act on his own bigotries toward non-Germans.

The Abrahamic religion (ironically started by the Jews) loans itself easily toward the hatred of "heathens".

I sometimes think that overall, historically speaking, it's almost "Poetic Justice" that the people who created a religion that uses God as an excuse to hate heathens would have it turned on themselves.

Although, I don't truly feel that this would be "justice" at all. Because I don't see where it makes any sense to blame the masses for the cults that a few authors had created.

But still, in some ways it almost looks like "karma" to me.

A culture creates a religion that it uses as an excuse to commit genocide on the people it doesn't like, and then the table gets turned and the same religion is turned back on them. Some people would say, "What goes around comes around".

They shouldn't have been using God as an excuse to hate people in the first place.

So maybe their fate is just karma?
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Post by Wootah »

[Replying to post 6 by Divine Insight]

DI said: So maybe their fate is just karma?

So you think they deserved it?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/ ... hp?t=33826

Looking for head to head debates, especially on contradictions or the Trinity. PM me your topic.

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jeager106
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Post by jeager106 »

Divine. You are an academic.
Or so you say. This is, after all, the internet where anyone can be anything to everyone.
I do believe you are an academic tho.
I think you grossly over simplified the Jewish persecution with your reasoning.
Either you were "taking it easy on me" or you over simplified it for other reasons.

Here is an interesting Jewish perspective worth a read.
It's both direct and easy to understand, thus why it appeals to a person like me who only has an I.Q. in the upper 10% of the population. :tongue: :tongue:
http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/ ... e_Jews.htm


I am not skilled at debate but am learning a great deal here, a lot from you.
I regard you as a master bater. Er, I mean debater. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
I'm sorry I can't resist a funny. :)

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Divine Insight
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Post by Divine Insight »

Wootah wrote: [Replying to post 6 by Divine Insight]

DI said: So maybe their fate is just karma?

So you think they deserved it?
No, not as a culture. And I've already made that point. I don't believe that the masses should be held responsible for a cult created by a few. The masses who follow the cult are just victims of the cult.

So I don't believe that entire cultures have a "karma". Although those who believe in the Bible actually have no choice but to believe this. Take the Canaanites as an example. God punished the entire culture for being "unbelievers". But clearly the children who were born into that culture could not be responsible for having been indoctrinated into the ways of the culture.

The bible is filled with examples of the Biblical God punishing entire cultures because they supposed "deserve it".

And this is yet another reason why I reject the Bible.

But I think it would be poetic justice if the individuals who actually wrote the Bible and made all these claims in the name of God had the religion turned on them. I think that would be fitting justice.

But yeah, it wouldn't be right to punish all Jews for the creation of the Abrahamic myths. The vast majority of them are most likely just innocent victims of this cult. Just like most modern day Christians and Muslims. They are mostly just innocent victims. Of course, there are those who are not so innocent too, but fortunately they are in a minority.
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Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
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