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Jolly_Penguin
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:30 pm  Existence of Holy Books as Evidence Against Their Claims Reply with quote

It occurs to me that many holy books claim a God exists that is all powerful and that this God has a message he/she/it wants you to know. But it occurs to me that an all powerful God would not have any need for such a limited and primitive means of communication. An all powerful God could simply make us all know what he is there and what he expects of us*. So the books themselves are at best redundant, and almost certainly misleading.

That we do not all know and agree on what God wants, that we have battles between different religions and different sects, tells me that if an all powerful God exists, he must intend all of this confusion. Perhaps he enjoys it. This conflicts with the messages I keep reading in these holy books.

So I wonder, is the mere existence of these holy books evidence against their claim of an all powerful God with a message he wants us to know?

* - Please note that us knowing what he expects of us doesn't in any way restrict our "free will" to obey or not obey what he wants, an in fact that only with knowing what he wants can we truly make any informed choice and have "free will" on the matter.
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 51: Sun Nov 08, 2015 5:06 pm
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Jolly_Penguin wrote:

...

If you say that reading the bible with an open heart will lead you on the right path, I have to ask you, do you say that all of those millions of people who find a different sect and interpret the book differently than you do, liars? That would be a whole lot of dishonesty.


Dishonesty? No, but their amnesia is self induced (repressed memories) by loving the distortion of the truth that they are not sinners over the truth that they are guilty in their sin and must repent, so, while not lying, they are still culpable.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 52: Sun Nov 08, 2015 6:47 pm
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If the others are not dishonest, and opened their hearts and minds and did their best to understand God, but got it wrong, what makes you so sure that you have got it right? And why would God want so much confusion? So many people earnestly seeking and finding falsehood?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 53: Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:18 pm
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ttruscott wrote:

Jolly_Penguin wrote:

...

If you say that reading the bible with an open heart will lead you on the right path, I have to ask you, do you say that all of those millions of people who find a different sect and interpret the book differently than you do, liars? That would be a whole lot of dishonesty.


Dishonesty? No, but their amnesia is self induced (repressed memories) by loving the distortion of the truth that they are not sinners over the truth that they are guilty in their sin and must repent, so, while not lying, they are still culpable.

For clarification, are you saying that people who do not "remember" alleged events in "the preexistence" [or whatever you call it], are victims of "self induced" amnesia or "repressed memories?" And are you also saying the reason for this is that they "love the distortion of the truth?"

If so, how is this different than declaring that anyone who disagrees with you on this point in your theology are not lying about their memories? You say "they aren't lying," but you find them both sinful and culpable, and that they love "the distortion of the truth." How is this different than dismissing as "liars" everyone who disagrees with you?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 54: Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:01 am
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Re: Existence of Holy Books as Evidence Against Their Claims

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ttruscott wrote:

Inigo Montoya wrote:
...

Ted, I'm curious. Obviously you're persuaded by this particular view of reality. I notice you never qualify your writing with "I think" or "I believe." You sound very confident indeed. Which is fine; makes this place a spicy environment.


I got tired of being chastised for a lack of certainty in my faith so I speak more clearly though my confidence does not change.

As well, for those I know are picky with me, (but I notice few qualify their posts with 'in my estimation') I often do start with imo, in my opinion, imCo, in my Christian opinion or even imPCECo, in my Pre-Conception Existence Christian opinion.

Quote:
What I want to know is this. How sure are you you've got any of this right? Would you ballpark a percentage on your certainty? A 1-10 scale?

Or is it purely faith without an implicit reflection of it in your language?


There is no proof of Spiritual truth, only faith, but 1. since my theology bypasses the blasphemies many sects are built upon because they do not know of our pre-earth existence and 2. it also offers a tighter interpretation of certain other biblical concepts and 3. it is supported and (partially) taught to me in my spirit by the Spirit in-dwelling me whom I consider to be the Holy Spirit, my confidence is very high that this is a superior theology.


It amazes me how this Holy Spirit is claimed to inspire so many people, yet he inspires them with competing religious ideas that all can't be true.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 55: Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:31 pm
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Re: Existence of Holy Books as Evidence Against Their Claims

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[Replying to Jolly_Penguin]

If you are to believe the Bible........God supposedly used his very "fingers" to write the 10 commandments on tablets to Moses.............so this God could have communicated his words directly to us rather than let humans think they know what he is saying....

Of course mythological stories all have such short comings.....I'll bet they had no idea humans 1,000s of years later would be looking at any of this with a critical eye.

Especially since the scientific method was many centuries from being implemented in how we have learned to deal with reality.

Face it.........all holy books are reality claims by the ignorance and pre scientific superstitious and deluded hopefuls.

End of story.......

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 56: Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:58 pm
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Jolly_Penguin wrote:

If the others are not dishonest, and opened their hearts and minds and did their best to understand God, but got it wrong, what makes you so sure that you have got it right? And why would God want so much confusion? So many people earnestly seeking and finding falsehood?


They do not open their hearts and minds, doing their best. Christian doctrine claims they follow the evil that controls their heart and minds.

GOD does not want any confusion nor did HE create it but then some people self created their own evil natures and evil is vastly confused by spiritual truth.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 57: Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:04 pm
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[quote="Danmark"]

Same effect, different cause. Not remembering does not have the deceit of a lie. The guilt comes not from lying but from indulging in sins that makes you susceptible to memory loss.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 58: Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:45 pm
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ttruscott wrote:

Jolly_Penguin wrote:

If the others are not dishonest, and opened their hearts and minds and did their best to understand God, but got it wrong, what makes you so sure that you have got it right? And why would God want so much confusion? So many people earnestly seeking and finding falsehood?


They do not open their hearts and minds, doing their best. Christian doctrine claims they follow the evil that controls their heart and minds.

GOD does not want any confusion nor did HE create it but then some people self created their own evil natures and evil is vastly confused by spiritual truth.


God didn't create confusion? Gen 1 animals come before man Gen 2 animals come after man. Jesus was fully human, but wasn't born with original sin...which means he can't be fully human as all humans are born with original sin. God is all knowing and all powerful, which means it knows everything that will happen for all time, which means it can't be changed because it would be known if it was changed...not very all powerful.

God doesn't want confusion? I beg to differ...

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 59: Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:17 pm
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Kenisaw wrote:

ttruscott wrote:

Jolly_Penguin wrote:

If the others are not dishonest, and opened their hearts and minds and did their best to understand God, but got it wrong, what makes you so sure that you have got it right? And why would God want so much confusion? So many people earnestly seeking and finding falsehood?


They do not open their hearts and minds, doing their best. Christian doctrine claims they follow the evil that controls their heart and minds.

GOD does not want any confusion nor did HE create it but then some people self created their own evil natures and evil is vastly confused by spiritual truth.


God didn't create confusion?


itCo
Lots of the bible seems to contradict itself, a fact of confusion made necessary to force people to seek the meaning in the Spirit not their own understanding, a SITUATION HE DID NOT WANT NOR CHOSE but which was forced upon HIM by the choice to be evil of both the reprobate and the sinful elect.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 60: Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:00 am
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ttruscott wrote:


Same effect, different cause. Not remembering does not have the deceit of a lie. The guilt comes not from lying but from indulging in sins that makes you susceptible to memory loss.

Didn't God design the human body? The human brain? The human soul pre-earth as well as the human soul on earth? If any of this is the case, in effect God designed a system that responds to guilt with memory loss, ergo God caused the memory loss by designing the system to have memory loss when faced with the guilt of sin. The fact that everyone has this memory loss is proof that this isn't just individual choice to repress memory. It is inherent in the system that was designed by God


Last edited by Justin108 on Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

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