Christian Theology and the Hebrew Scriptures

[Joe Blackbird]

Jesus is recorded in Matthew as having said;
"For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. (Mat 5;17-18)
Earth still, apparently, exists- so clearly Jesus believed in the authority of the law and that it should be followed (at least ‘until heaven and earth pass away‘).

He also reportedly declared himself to be a major subject of the Hebrew Bible;
Luk 24:44 Then he said to them, "These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."

But there are elements of Christian theology that appear to be completely foreign to the Hebrew Scriptures. For example;

1-Where is it explicitly written in the Hebrew Scriptures that God must become human and die to eliminate the system of ritual animal sacrifice that it says he himself set up to atone for sins?

Lev 1:2-4 "Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, When any one of you brings an offering to the LORD, you shall bring your offering of livestock from the herd or from the flock. "If his offering is a burnt offering from the herd, he shall offer a male without blemish. He shall bring it to the entrance of the tent of meeting, that he may be accepted before the LORD. He shall lay his hand on the head of the burnt offering, and it shall be accepted for him to make atonement for him.”

2-Where is it explicitly written in the Hebrew Scriptures that Hell has been designed as a place where specifically non-Christians go to be tortured for eternity when they die?

3-Where is it explicitly written in the Hebrew Scriptures that the Messiah will actually be God himself?

These beliefs seem to form the bedrock of New Testament theology for many Christians, but if they do not have their origins in the Hebrew Scriptures, where did they come from and why were they given such authority in Christianity?

[1John2_26]

First Scrotum has to prove 0 x 1. The formula for the atheist.

Quote:
# 1. Jeremiah 23:5-6 (see below) and Isaiah 9:6-7 speak of God becoming man (or a child).

Isaiah 53 (virtually universally accepted by ancient rabbis as Messianic) describes his sacrifice, including, "And the Lord laid on him the iniquity of us all (53:6).

Jewish thought tends to see those passages as referring to Israel, some the prophets or even the king.
Quote:
defeat on this issue. Non-Christians out there, any thoughts on the passages quoted by Easyrider? I am very impressed so far.

Wow Joe it doesn't take much to defeat or impress you.

Perfect example of why you cannot show much decency to the anti-Christian.

Anyway, there is much written about Christ Jesus and quoted of Him. (Casting pearls before swine comes rapidly to mind.)

In the winter of 1886-7 a large fragment of the Greek text of the Gospel of Peter was discovered in a tomb of a monk at Akhmîm in Upper Egypt. It is a manuscript from the 8th century - an online text is available. A smaller 2nd-3rd century fragment was discovered later at Oxyrhynchus, Egypt.

The text, which is translated in [Schneemelcher] v. 1 pp. 223-226, tells of the passion, death, and burial of Jesus, and embellishes the account of his resurrection with details concerning the miracles that followed. The responsibility for Christ's death is laid exclusively on the Jews, and Pilate is exonerated. Here and there we find traces of the Docetic heresy, and perhaps this is the reason why Jesus' cry of dereliction on the cross is given in the form 'My Power, my Power, why have you forsaken me?'.

Written probably in Syria between 100-130 CE the Gospel of Peter shows acquaintance with all 4 canonical Gospels but seems, in general, to have taken only limited notice of them. According to the investigation made by [Denker] pp. 58-77, it appears that almost every sentence of the passion narrative was composed on the basis of Scriptural references in the Old Testament, particularly in Isaiah and the Psalms. He argues that the work is a product of Jewish Christianity written sometime between the two Jewish uprisings. For differing opinions see [Schneemelcher] v. 1 pp. 217-222.

THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO PETER

1. But of the Jews none washed his hands, neither Herod, nor any one of his judges. And when they had refused to wash them, Pilate rose up. And then Herod the king commanded that the Lord be taken, saying to them, Whatever I command you to do to him, do.

This account tends to lay more responsibility on Herod and the people, while relieving Pilate somewhat of his share in the action that was taken.

2. And standing there was Joseph the friend of Pilate and of the Lord, and knowing that they were about to crucify him, he came to Pilate and asked the body of the Lord for burial. And Pilate sent to Herod and asked for his body. And Herod said, Brother Pilate, even if no one asked for him, we purposed to bury him, especially as the Sabbath draws on, for it is written in the law that the sun should not set upon one who has been put to death.
3. And he delivered him to the people on the day before their feast of unleavened bread. And they took the Lord and pushed him as they ran, and said, Let us drag away the Son of God, having obtained power over him. And they clothed him with purple and set him on the seat of judgment, saying, Judge righteously, O king of Israel. And one of them brought a crown of thorns and put it on the head of the Lord. And others stood and spat in his eyes, others smote his cheeks, others pricked him with a reed, and some whipped him, saying, With this honor let us honor the Son of God.
4. And they brought two malefactors and crucified the Lord between them. But he held his peace, as though having no pain. And when they had raised the cross, they wrote the title: This is the king of Israel. And setting his garments before him, they separated them among them and cast lots for them. And one of those malefactors reproached them, saying, We for the evils that we have done have suffered thus, but this man, who has become the Savior of men, what wrong has he done to you? And they, being angered at him, commanded that his legs should not be broken, that he might die in torment.
5. And it was noon, and darkness came over all Judaea. And they were troubled and distressed for fear the sun had set while he was yet alive, for it is written for them that the sun must not set on him that has been put to death. And one of them said, Give him gall with vinegar to drink. And they mixed and gave it to him to drink, and fulfilled all things, and accomplished their sins against their own head. And many went about with lamps, supposing that it was night, and fell down. And the Lord cried out, saying, My power, my power, you have forsaken me. And when he had said it, he was taken up. And in that hour the veil of the temple of Jerusalem was rent in two.
6. And then they drew out the nails from the hands of the Lord and laid him upon the earth, the whole earth quaked, and great fear arose. Then the sun shone, and it was found to be the ninth hour. Then the Jews rejoiced and gave his body to Joseph so he might bury it, since he had seen what good things he had done. And he took the Lord, washed him, rolled him in a linen cloth, and brought him to his own tomb, which was called the Garden of Joseph.
7. Then the Jews and the elders and the priests, perceiving what evil they had done to themselves, began to lament and to say, Woe for our sins, for judgment has drawn nigh, and the end of Jerusalem. And I with my companions was grieved, and being wounded in mind, we hid ourselves because we were being sought for by them as malefactors who wished to set fire to the temple. And upon all these things we fasted and sat mourning and weeping night and day until the Sabbath.
8. But the scribes and Pharisees and elders gathered together when they heard that all the people murmured and beat their breasts saying, If by his death these most mighty signs have come to pass, see how righteous he is, -- the elders were afraid and came to Pilate beseeching him and saying, Give us soldiers that we may guard his sepulchre for three days, for fear his disciples come and steal him away, and the people suppose that he is risen from the dead and do us evil. And Pilate gave them Petronius the centurion with soldiers to guard the tomb. And with them came elders and scribes to the sepulchre, and having rolled a great stone together with the centurion and the soldiers, they all who were there together set it at the door of the sepulchre; and they affixed seven seals and pitched a tent there and guarded it. And early in the morning as the Sabbath was drawing on, there came a multitude from Jerusalem and the region round about, that they might see the sepulchre that was sealed.
9. And in the night in which the Lord's day was drawing on, as the soldiers kept guard two by two in a watch, there was a great voice in the heaven; and they saw the heavens opened, and two men descend with a great light and approach the tomb. And the stone that was put at the door rolled of itself and made way in part; and the tomb was opened, and both the young men entered in.

The Lord's day means the first day of the week, or Sunday. Note that Peter says the stone rolled away of itself.

10. When therefore those soldiers saw it, they awakened the centurion and the elders, for they too were close by keeping guard. And as they declared what things they had seen, again they saw three men come forth from the tomb, and two of them supporting one, and a cross following them. And the heads of the two reached to heaven, but the head of him who was led by them overpassed the heavens. And they heard a voice from the heavens, saying, You have preached to them that sleep. And a response was heard from the cross, Yes.
11. They therefore considered one with another whether to go away and show these things to Pilate. And while they yet thought thereon, the heavens again were seen to open and a certain man to descend and enter into the sepulchre. When the centurion and they that were with him saw these things, they hurried in the night to Pilate, leaving the tomb they were watching, and declared all things which they had seen, being greatly distressed and saying, Truly he was the Son of God. Pilate answered and said, I am pure from the blood of the Son of God, for it was you who determined this. Then they all drew near and begged and entreated him to command the centurion and the soldiers to say nothing of the things which they had seen. For it is better, they said, for us to be guilty of the greatest sin before God, and not to fall into the hands of the people of the Jews to be stoned. Pilate therefore commanded the centurion and the soldiers to say nothing.
12. And at dawn on the Lord's day Mary Magdalene, a disciple of the Lord, fearing because of the Jews who were burning with wrath, had not done at the Lord's sepulchre the things which women are accustomed to do for those that die and for those that are beloved by them -- she took her friends with her and came to the sepulchre where he was laid. They feared the Jews should see them, and they said, Although on that day on which he was crucified we could not weep and lament, yet now let us do these things at his sepulchre. But who shall roll away for us the stone that was laid at the door of the sepulchre, that we may enter in and sit by him and do the things that are due? For the stone was great, and we fear someone will see us. And if we cannot, yet if we but set at the door the things which we bring as a memorial of him, we will weep and lament until we return home.

Note the prominence assigned to Mary Magdalene. Compare with: "Among them was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.... And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary..." (Matthew 27:56, 61; 28:5)

13. And they went and found the tomb opened, and coming near they looked in and saw there a certain young man sitting in the midst of the tomb, beautiful and clothed in a robe exceeding bright. He said to them, Why have you come? Whom do you seek? Him that was crucified? He is risen and gone. But if you do not believe, look in and see the place where he lay, that he is not here; for he is risen and gone where he was sent. Then the women feared and fled.
14. Now it was the last day of the unleavened bread, and many were going forth, returning to their homes as the feast was ended. But we, the twelve disciples of the Lord, wept and were grieved, and each one, being grieved for that which had come to pass, departed to his home. But I, Simon Peter, and Andrew my brother took our nets and went to the sea; and there was with us Levi the son of Alphaeus, whom the Lord...

At this point the fragment ends. While in general the story of the trial and crucifixion that is revealed here follows that of the canonical gospels, in detail it is very different. This account is freer from constraint; and with the events between the burial and resurrection of our Lord, it is much more ample and detailed than anything in the canonical tradition.

There are indeed twenty-nine variations of fact between this Gospel According to Peter and the four canonical gospels. Some of the most important that the reader will note are as follows: 1) Herod was the one who gave the order for the execution. 2) Joseph (of Arimathaea) was a friend of Pilate. 3) In the darkness many went about with lamps and fell down. (That is a startling glimpse of the confusion that seized the people.) 4) Christ's cry of "My power, my power." 5) The account of how the disciples had to hide because they were searched for on suspicion of plotting to set fire to the temple. 6) The name of the centurion who kept watch at the tomb was Petronius. 7) The Resurrection and Ascension seem recorded (in verse 5) not as separate events but as occurring on the same day.

In the valley of the Upper Nile, on the right bank of the river, is the mysterious town of Akhmim. It was called Panopolis in ancient times when it was the capital of the district. The remnants of monasteries and the ruins of temples mark the intellectual life of a former day. Centuries rolled over that remote tomb at Akhmim, while nations rose and fell, wars blasted civilization, science metamorphosed the world. Shakespeares and Miltons wrote their names and passed on, the American nation was born and grew up -- all the while the ink on the parchment in that Egyptian tomb was scarcely changing -- and the beautiful words of this Scripture were preserving for us this version of the most tragic and momentous event in history. That briefly is the romance of The Gospel According to Peter.

In 1886, the French Archaeological Mission, while excavating in the grave of a monk, came upon a parchment codex. Six years later a translation of this was published in the Memoirs of the French Archaeological Mission at Cairo. Scholars realized for the first time that a striking discovery, possibly of overwhelming importance, had been made. A portion of The Gospel According to Peter appeared to have been restored to the Christian Community after having been lost for ages.

Such a gospel was referred to by Serapion, Bishop of Antioch, in 190 A.D.; Origen, historian, in 253 A.D.; Eusebius, Bishop of Caesarea in 300 A.D.; Theodoret in 455 in his Religious History said that the Nazarenes used The Gospel According to Peter; and Justin Martyr includes the Memoirs of Peter in his "Apostolic Memoirs." Thus scholars have always recognized that such a document existed long ago, although its whereabouts and fate were a mystery until the discovery at Akhmim.

Commenting in the Journal of Theological Studies on Justin Martyr's ancient testimony and this present document, D.H. Stanton wrote: "The conclusion with which we are confronted is that The Gospel of Peter once held a place of honor, comparable to that assigned to the Four Gospels, perhaps even higher than some of them..."

[Colter]

9. HEBREW HISTORY

There never were twelve tribes of the Israelites--only three or four tribes settled in Palestine. The Hebrew nation came into being as the result of the union of the so-called Israelites and the Canaanites. "And the children of Israel dwelt among the Canaanites. And they took their daughters to be their wives and gave their daughters to the sons of the Canaanites." The Hebrews never drove the Canaanites out of Palestine, notwithstanding that the priests' record of these things unhesitatingly declared that they did.

The Israelitish consciousness took origin in the hill country of Ephraim; the later Jewish consciousness originated in the southern clan of Judah. The Jews

(Judahites) always sought to defame and blacken the record of the northern Israelites (Ephraimites).

Pretentious Hebrew history begins with Saul's rallying the northern clans to withstand an attack by the Ammonites upon their fellow tribesmen--the Gileadites--east of the Jordan. With an army of a little more than three thousand he defeated the enemy, and it was this exploit that led the hill tribes to make him king. When the exiled priests rewrote this story, they raised Saul's army to 330,000 and added "Judah" to the list of tribes participating in the battle.

Immediately following the defeat of the Ammonites, Saul was made king by popular election by his troops. No priest or prophet participated in this affair. But the priests later on put it in the record that Saul was crowned king by the prophet Samuel in accordance with divine directions. This they did in order to establish a "divine line of descent" for David's Judahite kingship.

The greatest of all distortions of Jewish history had to do with David. After Saul's victory over the Ammonites (which he ascribed to Yahweh) the Philistines became alarmed and began attacks on the northern clans. David and Saul never could agree. David with six hundred men entered into a Philistine alliance and marched up the coast to Esdraelon. At Gath the Philistines ordered David off the field; they feared he might go over to Saul. David retired; the Philistines attacked and defeated Saul. They could not have done this had David been loyal to Israel. David's army was a polyglot assortment of malcontents, being for the most part made up of social misfits and fugitives from justice.

Saul's tragic defeat at Gilboa by the Philistines brought Yahweh to a low point among the gods in the eyes of the surrounding Canaanites. Ordinarily, Saul's defeat would have been ascribed to apostasy from Yahweh, but this time the Judahite editors attributed it to ritual errors. They required the tradition of Saul and Samuel as a background for the kingship of David.

David with his small army made his headquarters at the non-Hebrew city of Hebron. Presently his compatriots proclaimed him king of the new kingdom of Judah. Judah was made up mostly of non-Hebrew elements--Kenites, Calebites, Jebusites, and other Canaanites. They were nomads--herders--and so were devoted to the Hebrew idea of land ownership. They held the ideologies of the desert clans.

The difference between sacred and profane history is well illustrated by the two differing stories concerning making David king as they are found in the Old Testament. A part of the secular story of how his immediate followers (his army) made him king was inadvertently left in the record by the priests who subsequently prepared the lengthy and prosaic account of the sacred history wherein is depicted how the prophet Samuel, by divine direction, selected David from among his brethren and proceeded formally and by elaborate and solemn ceremonies to anoint him king over the Hebrews and then to proclaim him Saul's successor.

So many times did the priests, after preparing their fictitious narratives of God's miraculous dealings with Israel, fail fully to delete the plain and matter-of-fact statements which already rested in the records.

David sought to build himself up politically by first marrying Saul's daughter, then the widow of Nabal the rich Edomite, and then the daughter of Talmai, the king of Geshur. He took six wives from the women of Jebus, not to mention Bathsheba, the wife of the Hittite.


And it was by such methods and out of such people that David built up the fiction of a divine kingdom of Judah as the successor of the heritage and traditions of the vanishing northern kingdom of Ephraimite Israel. David's cosmopolitan tribe of Judah was more gentile than Jewish; nevertheless the oppressed elders of Ephraim came down and "anointed him king of Israel." After a military threat, David then made a compact with the Jebusites and established his capital of the united kingdom at Jebus (Jerusalem), which was a strong-walled city midway between Judah and Israel. The Philistines were aroused and soon attacked David. After a fierce battle they were defeated, and once more Yahweh was established as "The Lord God of Hosts."

But Yahweh must, perforce, share some of this glory with the Canaanite gods, for the bulk of David's army was non-Hebrew. And so there appears in your record (overlooked by the Judahite editors) this telltale statement: "Yahweh has broken my enemies before me. Therefore he called the name of the place Baal-Perazim." And they did this because eighty per cent of David's soldiers were Baalites.

David explained Saul's defeat at Gilboa by pointing out that Saul had attacked a Canaanite city, Gibeon, whose people had a peace treaty with the Ephraimites. Because of this, Yahweh forsook him. Even in Saul's time David had defended the Canaanite city of Keilah against the Philistines, and then he located his capital in a Canaanite city. In keeping with the policy of compromise with the Canaanites, David turned seven of Saul's descendants over to the Gibeonites to be hanged.

After the defeat of the Philistines, David gained possession of the "ark of Yahweh," brought it to Jerusalem, and made the worship of Yahweh official for his kingdom. He next laid heavy tribute on the neighboring tribes--the Edomites, Moabites, Ammonites, and Syrians.

David's corrupt political machine began to get personal possession of land in the north in violation of the Hebrew mores and presently gained control of the caravan tariffs formerly collected by the Philistines. And then came a series of atrocities climaxed by the murder of Uriah. All judicial appeals were adjudicated at Jerusalem; no longer could "the elders" mete out justice. No wonder rebellion broke out. Today, Absalom might be called a demagogue; his mother was a Canaanite. There were a half dozen contenders for the throne besides the son of Bathsheba--Solomon.

After David's death Solomon purged the political machine of all northern influences but continued all of the tyranny and taxation of his father's regime. Solomon bankrupted the nation by his lavish court and by his elaborate building program: There was the house of Lebanon, the palace of Pharaoh's daughter, the temple of Yahweh, the king's palace, and the restoration of the walls of many cities. Solomon created a vast Hebrew navy, operated by Syrian sailors and trading with all the world. His harem numbered almost one thousand.

By this time Yahweh's temple at Shiloh was discredited, and all the worship of the nation was centered at Jebus in the gorgeous royal chapel. The northern kingdom returned more to the worship of Elohim. They enjoyed the favor of the Pharaohs, who later enslaved Judah, putting the southern kingdom under tribute.

There were ups and downs--wars between Israel and Judah. After four years of civil war and three dynasties, Israel fell under the rule of city despots who began to trade in land. Even King Omri attempted to buy Shemer's estate.

But the end drew on apace when Shalmaneser III decided to control the Mediterranean coast. King Ahab of Ephraim gathered ten other groups and resisted at Karkar; the battle was a draw. The Assyrian was stopped but the allies were decimated. This great fight is not even mentioned in the Old Testament.

New trouble started when King Ahab tried to buy land from Naboth. His Phoenician wife forged Ahab's name to papers directing that Naboth's land be confiscated on the charge that he had blasphemed the names of "Elohim and the king." He and his sons were promptly executed. The vigorous Elijah appeared on the scene denouncing Ahab for the murder of the Naboths. Thus Elijah, one of the greatest of the prophets, began his teaching as a defender of the old land mores as against the land-selling attitude of the Baalim, against the attempt of the cities to dominate the country. But the reform did not succeed until the country landlord Jehu joined forces with the gypsy chieftain Jehonadab to destroy the prophets (real estate agents) of Baal at Samaria.

New life appeared as Jehoash and his son Jeroboam delivered Israel from its enemies. But by this time there ruled in Samaria a gangster-nobility whose depredations rivaled those of the Davidic dynasty of olden days. State and church went along hand in hand. The attempt to suppress freedom of speech led Elijah, Amos, and Hosea to begin their secret writing, and this was the real beginning of the Jewish and Christian Bibles.

But the northern kingdom did not vanish from history until the king of Israel conspired with the king of Egypt and refused to pay further tribute to Assyria. Then began the three years' siege followed by the total dispersion of the northern kingdom. Ephraim (Israel) thus vanished. Judah--the Jews, the "remnant of Israel"--had begun the concentration of land in the hands of the few, as Isaiah said, "Adding house to house and field to field." Presently there was in Jerusalem a temple of Baal alongside the temple of Yahweh. This reign of terror was ended by a monotheistic revolt led by the boy king Joash, who crusaded for Yahweh for thirty-five years.

The next king, Amaziah, had trouble with the revolting tax-paying Edomites and their neighbors. After a signal victory he turned to attack his northern neighbors and was just as signally defeated. Then the rural folk revolted; they assassinated the king and put his sixteen-year-old son on the throne. This was Azariah, called Uzziah by Isaiah. After Uzziah, things went from bad to worse, and Judah existed for a hundred years by paying tribute to the kings of Assyria. Isaiah the first told them that Jerusalem, being the city of Yahweh, would never fall. But Jeremiah did not hesitate to proclaim its downfall.

The real undoing of Judah was effected by a corrupt and rich ring of politicians operating under the rule of a boy king, Manasseh. The changing economy favored the return of the worship of Baal, whose private land dealings were against the ideology of Yahweh. The fall of Assyria and the ascendency of Egypt brought deliverance to Judah for a time, and the country folk took over. Under Josiah they destroyed the Jerusalem ring of corrupt politicians.

But this era came to a tragic end when Josiah presumed to go out to intercept Necho's mighty army as it moved up the coast from Egypt for the aid of Assyria against Babylon. He was wiped out, and Judah went under tribute to Egypt. The Baal political party returned to power in Jerusalem, and thus began the real Egyptian bondage. Then ensued a period in which the Baalim politicians controlled both the courts and the priesthood. Baal worship was an economic and social system dealing with property rights as well as having to do with soil fertility.


With the overthrow of Necho by Nebuchadnezzar, Judah fell under the rule of Babylon and was given ten years of grace, but soon rebelled. When Nebuchadnezzar came against them, the Judahites started social reforms, such as releasing slaves, to influence Yahweh. When the Babylonian army temporarily withdrew, the Hebrews rejoiced that their magic of reform had delivered them. It was during this period that Jeremiah told them of the impending doom, and presently Nebuchadnezzar returned.

And so the end of Judah came suddenly. The city was destroyed, and the people were carried away into Babylon. The Yahweh-Baal struggle ended with the captivity. And the captivity shocked the remnant of Israel into monotheism.

In Babylon the Jews arrived at the conclusion that they could not exist as a small group in Palestine, having their own peculiar social and economic customs, and that, if their ideologies were to prevail, they must convert the gentiles. Thus originated their new concept of destiny--the idea that the Jews must become the chosen servants of Yahweh. The Jewish religion of the Old Testament really evolved in Babylon during the captivity.

The doctrine of immortality also took form at Babylon. The Jews had thought that the idea of the future life detracted from the emphasis of their gospel of social justice. Now for the first time theology displaced sociology and economics. Religion was taking shape as a system of human thought and conduct more and more to be separated from politics, sociology, and economics.

And so does the truth about the Jewish people disclose that much which has been regarded as sacred history turns out to be little more than the chronicle of ordinary profane history. Judaism was the soil out of which Christianity grew, but the Jews were not a miraculous people.

Urantia Book 1955

Colter

[Easyrider]

9. HEBREW HISTORY

There never were twelve tribes of the Israelites-
Urantia Book 1955

This folly came from the same space cadets who published the following:

THE ORIGIN OF URANTIA

http://www.urantia.org/papers/paper57.html

At the time of the beginning of this recital, the Primary Master Force Organizers of Paradise had long been in full control of the space-energies which were later organized as the Andronover nebula.

987,000,000,000 years ago associate force organizer and then acting inspector number 811,307 of the Orvonton series, traveling out from Uversa, reported to the Ancients of Days that space conditions were favorable for the initiation of materialization phenomena in a certain sector of the, then, easterly segment of Orvonton.

900,000,000,000 years ago the Uversa archives testify, there was recorded a permit issued by the Uversa Council of Equilibrium to the superuniverse government authorizing the dispatch of a force organizer and staff to the region

900,000,000,000 years ago the Uversa archives testify, there was recorded a permit issued by the Uversa Council of Equilibrium to the superuniverse government authorizing the dispatch of a force organizer and staff to the region previously designated by inspector number 811,307. The Orvonton authorities commissioned the original discoverer of this potential universe to execute the mandate of the Ancients of Days calling for the organization of a new material creation.

The recording of this permit signifies that the force organizer and staff had already departed from Uversa on the long journey to that easterly space sector where they were subsequently to engage in those protracted activities which would terminate in the emergence of a new physical creation in Orvonton.

875,000,000,000 years ago the enormous Andronover nebula number 876,926 was duly initiated. Only the presence of the force organizer and the liaison staff was required to inaugurate the energy whirl which eventually grew into this vast cyclone of space. Subsequent to the initiation of such nebular revolutions, the living force organizers simply withdraw at right angles to the plane of the revolutionary disk, and from that time forward, the inherent qualities of energy insure the progressive and orderly evolution of such a new physical system.

500,000,000,000 years ago the first Andronover sun was born. This blazing streak broke away from the mother gravity grasp and tore out into space on an independent adventure in the cosmos of creation. Its orbit was determined by its path of escape. Such young suns quickly become spherical and start out on their long and eventful careers as the stars of space. Excepting terminal nebular nucleuses, the vast majority of Orvonton suns have had an analogous birth. These escaping suns pass through varied periods of evolution and subsequent universe service.

It was scarcely a million years subsequent to this epoch that Michael of Nebadon, a Creator Son of Paradise, selected this disintegrating nebula as the site of his adventure in universe building. Almost immediately the architectural worlds of Salvington and the one hundred constellation headquarters groups of planets were begun. It required almost one million years to complete these clusters of specially created worlds. The local system headquarters planets were constructed over a period extending from that time to about five billion years ago.

300,000,000,000 years ago the Andronover solar circuits were well established, and the nebular system was passing through a transient period of relative physical stability. About this time the staff of Michael arrived on Salvington, and the Uversa government of Orvonton extended physical recognition to the local universe of Nebadon.

3,000,000,000 years ago the solar system was functioning much as it does today. Its members continued to grow in size as space meteors continued to pour in upon the planets and their satellites at a prodigious rate. About this time your solar system was placed on the physical registry of Nebadon and given its name, Monmatia.

900,000,000 years ago witnessed the arrival on Urantia of the first Satania scouting party sent out from Jerusem to examine the planet and make a report on its adaptation for a life-experiment station. This commission consisted of twenty-four members, embracing Life Carriers, Lanonandek Sons, Melchizedeks, seraphim, and other orders of celestial life having to do with the early days of planetary organization and administration.

Can't trust it.

[Colter]

This folly came from the same space cadets who published the following

Hint, the same Hebrew priesthood that conspired to kill Christ wrote the wildly exaggerated and discredited OT scriptures of a miraculous "chosen people."

Another hint, their still waiting for the material Messiah to sit on David's thrown.

Colter

[Cathar1950]

Just because the UB says it does not mean it isn’t true.

Most scholars agree that most of the 12 tribes were nations surrounding the area
Phoenicians moved north near Israel and became the tribe of Dan. They held Hercules
In high esteem and interesting enough Sampson was from the tribe of Dan. Sampson was later written into the stories of the Judges.

[Easyrider]

This folly came from the same space cadets who published the following

Hint, the same Hebrew priesthood that conspired to kill Christ wrote the wildly exaggerated and discredited OT scriptures of a miraculous "chosen people."

Another hint, their still waiting for the material Messiah to sit on David's thrown.

Colter

Do you really believe the following from your Urgantia Book?

900,000,000 years ago witnessed the arrival on Urantia of the first Satania scouting party sent out from Jerusem to examine the planet and make a report on its adaptation for a life-experiment station. This commission consisted of twenty-four members, embracing Life Carriers, Lanonandek Sons, Melchizedeks, seraphim, and other orders of celestial life having to do with the early days of planetary organization and administration.

[Colter]

It's pretty wild and crazy stuff isn't it? I have no way of verifying such things. But, if I had to choose an explanation or a theory of life on this world, evolution, cosmology and the fragmented history of revelations to our old world in the very young history of the 66 books which comprise the bible I would choose the Urantia Book.

I've been studying the book and associated material for 20+ years. While extrapolations of the reveled material may seem bizarre it makes quite a lot of sense when the story as a whole is considered.

I'm blessed with an open mind, I have no indoctrination to defend.

Colter

[Rob]

Easyrider once again resorts to attacking the source with unrelated and irrelavant quotations, rather than addressing the issues and arguments:

Do you really believe the following from your Urgantia Book?

[Followed unrelated to topic quotation.]

I note the topic of this thread is “Christian Theology and the Hebrew Scriptures.” I also note the following regarding the rules of debate on this forum:

Please abide by the following rules:

....

4. Stay on the topic of debate. If a topic brings up another issue, start another thread.
5. Support your assertions/arguments with evidence. Do not make blanket statements that are not supportable by logic/evidence.

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7. Do not post frivolous, flame bait, or inflammatory messages.

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Your choice for the second time to ignore the topic of this thread and to post irrelevant material is little more than "frivolous, flame bait." You are violating the rules of debate on this forum Easyrider, so I ask, is this your habit when you do not desire to address the topic and issues under discussion? I could easily find quotations from the Bible that many would consider questionable, and through them out in a manner completely unrelated to the topic of the thread, but I choose to abide by the rules of this debate forum as it seems the honorable, ethical, and Jesusonian thing to do. Please abide by the rules of the debate forums Easyrider.

After all, as the rules state, "If a topic brings up another issue, start another thread." So if you want to debate statements in the UB unrelated to the topic of the thread, you should per the rules of this site start a new thread.

[Easyrider]

Easyrider: "Do you really believe the following from your Urgantia Book?"

Rob: "[Followed unrelated to topic quotation.]...Easyrider once again resorts to attacking the source with unrelated and irrelavant quotations..."

Hey Rob, if you don't want your Urantia space cadet manual questioned (it's your source that you're using to try to discredit Christian Theology and the Hebrew Scriptures), then please refrain from doing your massive cut and pastes from it.

Frankly, I've never seen a more hilarious and questionable piece of trash than that book. Orange and green races? Interstellar space cadets habitizing the planets? We must have missed them. LOL!

[Rob]

Easyrider: "Do you really believe the following from your Urgantia Book?"

Rob: "[Followed unrelated to topic quotation.]...Easyrider once again resorts to attacking the source with unrelated and irrelavant quotations..."

Hey Rob, if you don't want your Urantia space cadet manual questioned (it's your source that you're using to try to discredit Christian Theology and the Hebrew Scriptures), then please refrain from doing your massive cut and pastes from it.

Frankly, I've never seen such a more hilarious and questionable piece of trash than that book. Orange and green races? We must have missed them. LOL!

You only reveal your own ignorance and un-Christ-like behavior by engaging in ad hominem on a forum dedicated to respectful debate, and your inability to behave according to the rules of debate.

You are only debasing yourself my friend. And it tells us a lot about both your intellectual integrity and spirtitual maturity.