A person, an influence of some kind, an "active force", or?
If a person, which person? Is he someone we can know and talk to and hear from?
If not a person, then how, if at all, are we to relate to this non-person?
Please explain why you have the view you present, and reject other ideas.
The Holy Spirit is?
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Checkpoint
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Re: The Holy Spirit is?
Post #2[Replying to post 1 by Checkpoint]
In the Jehovah's Witness faith the Holy spirit is believed to be God's active force (power in action) that He (God) uses to further his will and purpose. This is because Besides being translated ‘spirit,’ ruʹach [Hebrew] is also translated ‘wind’ and by other words that denote an invisible active force.� (Compare footnotes at Genesis 3:8; 8:1.)
JW
In the Jehovah's Witness faith the Holy spirit is believed to be God's active force (power in action) that He (God) uses to further his will and purpose. This is because Besides being translated ‘spirit,’ ruʹach [Hebrew] is also translated ‘wind’ and by other words that denote an invisible active force.� (Compare footnotes at Genesis 3:8; 8:1.)
JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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ttruscott
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Re: The Holy Spirit is?
Post #3As a Trinitarian I accept the Holy Spirit as a person named the Holy Spirit...in other words, asking which person is a misnomer.Checkpoint wrote:If a person, which person? Is he someone we can know and talk to and hear from?
Some people cannot hear Him as they close out HIS 'words' as interfering thoughts in their minds or He doesn't speak to them...1 Corinthians 2:14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
Those who hear Him are those who abide in, rest in, are tuned into, the Spirit: John 14:17...the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and He will be in you.
All experience of the Holy Spirit is by His self revelation to us.
PCE Theology as I see it...
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
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May_Queen44
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Post #4
Forgive me for the length of my replies, I do believe these posts get the point across tho.
YHVH: The Truth About "Yaweh" "Jehova"
Taking the Mask Off of Christianity
The Judeo/Christian Bible has always used extreme fear as a tool to keep people away from the occult, sorcery, "witchcraft,� and workings of the mind. In the article below, the reasons are obvious. In order for a spell to succeed, the victim must lack the necessary knowledge, be a good sheep, and just "believe."
Exodus 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
"YHVH" aka "Yaweh" "Jehova" is nothing more than a system of Jewish magick. "YHVH" known as the "tetragammaton" represents the four corners and elements, as does "INRI" along with the four gospels; these represent the four corners of magick and the four elements that are so important in any magickal working. "YHVH" is used extensively in (Jewish) magick. The Jews stole the Kabalah from the Egyptians and corrupted it. It is mainly chanted- "Yod Heh Vau Heh" in different combinations.
The Gentile people have been force fed Christianity in order to strip us of all knowledge and power. Those at the top play both sides against the middle. What this means is the enemy works from within both sides- each side bashing the other while they both move ahead. This is analogous to a cop who is heavily involved in an open and public anti-drug crusade and secretly sells and pushes drugs unbeknownst to his family and community.
Following the Roman sacking of the Temple of Solomon 70 CE, Christianity was invented by the Jews the best known is (Paul aka "Saul of Tarsus) so they could control the world using the ancient known powers of the mind and the soul. The Jews themselves know the Nazarene is a fictitious character based upon some 20 crucified heroes from Pagan pantheons. With the centuries of devout belief in this entity and the psychic energy poured into him through prayer, he has taken on a life of his own. See Thoughtforms. For example, Odin hung from a tree, Set was crucified on a furka, Buddha sat beneath the Bo (Boa- again the serpent) tree for enlightenment; the list goes on. Most of the character of the Nazarene was stolen from the Persian God "Mithra." In working a spell, it is always important a connection be made.
In the case of Christianity, all of the former Pagan (Gentile) Gods were bound and replaced with fictitious Jewish deities. The Hebrew Virgin Mary replaced Astaroth, the Hebrew Moses legend was stolen from Sargon (both were born in secrecy, left in a reed basket to float down the river and adopted by royalty), Hebrew Abraham was stolen from Hindu Brahma. "Brahma in Sanskrit means "many." The endless list goes on and on. See Exposing Christianity There isn't anything in the Christian religion that hasn't been stolen from Pagan religions pre-dating it from hundreds to thousands of years. The Pagan Gods, being a powerful racial memory in the minds of Gentiles were replaced with Hebrew characters to be slavishly obeyed and worshipped. This set the stage for immense power and control.
Christianity has always been nothing more than a tool to remove spiritual knowledge and power from the Gentile population and to keep us from our Gods, namely our True Creator God given the name Satan, which means "adversary/enemy" in Hebrew . Those Gentiles who were priests and leaders were tortured and put to death. The others who did not follow suffered the same lot and any Gentile even suspected of having ties to the old religions was labeled as a "heretic" and put to death. Of course, the Jews rant and holler concerning the Christian Church's persecution of their small communities during the Middle Ages, but this is the age old playing both sides against the middle and those Jews at the top could care less how many of their own they have to use. Tomás de Torquemada, First Grand Inquisitor of Spain was a Jew.
The Jews have had full control of the Catholic Church (original Christian Church) from the beginning. Most of the Catholic popes were of Jewish origins, such as the late John Paul II who was born of a Jewish mother (Katz) and recognized as a Jew by the Jewish orthodox. Through the Catholic sacrament of confession, the Catholic clergy had everyone, namely the Gentile leaders and nobility over a barrel. They knew their deepest and darkest secrets.
The Catholic Church is the bulwark of Christianity. Since the Protestant reformation, the Jews have also gained control of these sects. The "World Council of Churches" is another example.
The Jews have had a vast pool of psychic energy from which to draw from. The Jews appointed themselves as "The Chosen of God," the star character of Christianity, the Nazarene is a Jew (and a powerful thoughtform), the Virgin Mary and her husband Joseph are Jews, the 12 apostles of the Nazarene (13 makes a coven- again stolen from the Ancient Pagan religions)- all Jews. In addition, all of the characters of the Old and New Testament were stolen from Gentile characters and replaced as the "Chosen" Jews.
So the average Christian Gentile, ignorant to the clandestine workings of the Jews and the occult, pours more and more psychic energy through devotion and prayer into this Jewish energy vortex and people wonder how this minority has most of the world's wealth and power. The Gentiles, namely the Christians have been under a very powerful spell for centuries.
They cut us off from our Gods, our traditions and our spiritual and religious heritage through mass murder, replacing our history with nothing but lies and through fear of the unknown since all Gentile knowledge was taken out of circulation.
Their angelic filth- most have names with the classic seven letters: Gabriel, Raphael, etc. These seven represent the seven chakras and were used to bind the Gentile Gods and make slaves of them using the "Goetia." The Goetic black books or "grimoires" all originated with the Jews, such as "The Key of Solomon," and "The Sacred Magic of Abramelin the Mage" and many more, (these can easily be found online, by typing their titles into a search engine) all originally written in Hebrew as most Gentiles cannot read Hebrew. All use the Hebrew symbols and chants and direct intense blasphemy against the Gentile Gods who have been turned into devils, demons and hideous monsters to be degraded. The Gentile Gods are no longer bound and some of those complacent prophesies slipped such as "Azazel being bound until the end of time." I can assure you he is now totally free.
Christianity goes in steps. Because it is fictitious, it is spiritually unreliable. Certain Christians have at times tapped into this energy vortex and obtained results. Prayer groups and such put forth psychic energy. Deluded Christians are told to "have faith." Having faith is necessary for any spell or directed working of the mind to succeed. With Christianity, it is hit and mostly misses. The few and far in-between hits keep the deluded believing, unknowing this is not any "miracle" but only the power of the mind. The end objective is atheism. The atheist believes in nothing and disregards anything "supernatural" or of the occult. He/she is a sitting duck just waiting to be manipulated by those who possess occult knowledge and power.
More:
http://see_the_truth.webs.com/Tetragrammaton.htm
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpent ... Satan.html
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpent ... arene.html
http://see_the_truth.webs.com
YHVH: The Truth About "Yaweh" "Jehova"
Taking the Mask Off of Christianity
The Judeo/Christian Bible has always used extreme fear as a tool to keep people away from the occult, sorcery, "witchcraft,� and workings of the mind. In the article below, the reasons are obvious. In order for a spell to succeed, the victim must lack the necessary knowledge, be a good sheep, and just "believe."
Exodus 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
"YHVH" aka "Yaweh" "Jehova" is nothing more than a system of Jewish magick. "YHVH" known as the "tetragammaton" represents the four corners and elements, as does "INRI" along with the four gospels; these represent the four corners of magick and the four elements that are so important in any magickal working. "YHVH" is used extensively in (Jewish) magick. The Jews stole the Kabalah from the Egyptians and corrupted it. It is mainly chanted- "Yod Heh Vau Heh" in different combinations.
The Gentile people have been force fed Christianity in order to strip us of all knowledge and power. Those at the top play both sides against the middle. What this means is the enemy works from within both sides- each side bashing the other while they both move ahead. This is analogous to a cop who is heavily involved in an open and public anti-drug crusade and secretly sells and pushes drugs unbeknownst to his family and community.
Following the Roman sacking of the Temple of Solomon 70 CE, Christianity was invented by the Jews the best known is (Paul aka "Saul of Tarsus) so they could control the world using the ancient known powers of the mind and the soul. The Jews themselves know the Nazarene is a fictitious character based upon some 20 crucified heroes from Pagan pantheons. With the centuries of devout belief in this entity and the psychic energy poured into him through prayer, he has taken on a life of his own. See Thoughtforms. For example, Odin hung from a tree, Set was crucified on a furka, Buddha sat beneath the Bo (Boa- again the serpent) tree for enlightenment; the list goes on. Most of the character of the Nazarene was stolen from the Persian God "Mithra." In working a spell, it is always important a connection be made.
In the case of Christianity, all of the former Pagan (Gentile) Gods were bound and replaced with fictitious Jewish deities. The Hebrew Virgin Mary replaced Astaroth, the Hebrew Moses legend was stolen from Sargon (both were born in secrecy, left in a reed basket to float down the river and adopted by royalty), Hebrew Abraham was stolen from Hindu Brahma. "Brahma in Sanskrit means "many." The endless list goes on and on. See Exposing Christianity There isn't anything in the Christian religion that hasn't been stolen from Pagan religions pre-dating it from hundreds to thousands of years. The Pagan Gods, being a powerful racial memory in the minds of Gentiles were replaced with Hebrew characters to be slavishly obeyed and worshipped. This set the stage for immense power and control.
Christianity has always been nothing more than a tool to remove spiritual knowledge and power from the Gentile population and to keep us from our Gods, namely our True Creator God given the name Satan, which means "adversary/enemy" in Hebrew . Those Gentiles who were priests and leaders were tortured and put to death. The others who did not follow suffered the same lot and any Gentile even suspected of having ties to the old religions was labeled as a "heretic" and put to death. Of course, the Jews rant and holler concerning the Christian Church's persecution of their small communities during the Middle Ages, but this is the age old playing both sides against the middle and those Jews at the top could care less how many of their own they have to use. Tomás de Torquemada, First Grand Inquisitor of Spain was a Jew.
The Jews have had full control of the Catholic Church (original Christian Church) from the beginning. Most of the Catholic popes were of Jewish origins, such as the late John Paul II who was born of a Jewish mother (Katz) and recognized as a Jew by the Jewish orthodox. Through the Catholic sacrament of confession, the Catholic clergy had everyone, namely the Gentile leaders and nobility over a barrel. They knew their deepest and darkest secrets.
The Catholic Church is the bulwark of Christianity. Since the Protestant reformation, the Jews have also gained control of these sects. The "World Council of Churches" is another example.
The Jews have had a vast pool of psychic energy from which to draw from. The Jews appointed themselves as "The Chosen of God," the star character of Christianity, the Nazarene is a Jew (and a powerful thoughtform), the Virgin Mary and her husband Joseph are Jews, the 12 apostles of the Nazarene (13 makes a coven- again stolen from the Ancient Pagan religions)- all Jews. In addition, all of the characters of the Old and New Testament were stolen from Gentile characters and replaced as the "Chosen" Jews.
So the average Christian Gentile, ignorant to the clandestine workings of the Jews and the occult, pours more and more psychic energy through devotion and prayer into this Jewish energy vortex and people wonder how this minority has most of the world's wealth and power. The Gentiles, namely the Christians have been under a very powerful spell for centuries.
They cut us off from our Gods, our traditions and our spiritual and religious heritage through mass murder, replacing our history with nothing but lies and through fear of the unknown since all Gentile knowledge was taken out of circulation.
Their angelic filth- most have names with the classic seven letters: Gabriel, Raphael, etc. These seven represent the seven chakras and were used to bind the Gentile Gods and make slaves of them using the "Goetia." The Goetic black books or "grimoires" all originated with the Jews, such as "The Key of Solomon," and "The Sacred Magic of Abramelin the Mage" and many more, (these can easily be found online, by typing their titles into a search engine) all originally written in Hebrew as most Gentiles cannot read Hebrew. All use the Hebrew symbols and chants and direct intense blasphemy against the Gentile Gods who have been turned into devils, demons and hideous monsters to be degraded. The Gentile Gods are no longer bound and some of those complacent prophesies slipped such as "Azazel being bound until the end of time." I can assure you he is now totally free.
Christianity goes in steps. Because it is fictitious, it is spiritually unreliable. Certain Christians have at times tapped into this energy vortex and obtained results. Prayer groups and such put forth psychic energy. Deluded Christians are told to "have faith." Having faith is necessary for any spell or directed working of the mind to succeed. With Christianity, it is hit and mostly misses. The few and far in-between hits keep the deluded believing, unknowing this is not any "miracle" but only the power of the mind. The end objective is atheism. The atheist believes in nothing and disregards anything "supernatural" or of the occult. He/she is a sitting duck just waiting to be manipulated by those who possess occult knowledge and power.
More:
http://see_the_truth.webs.com/Tetragrammaton.htm
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpent ... Satan.html
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpent ... arene.html
http://see_the_truth.webs.com
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Checkpoint
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Re: The Holy Spirit is?
Post #5How can you relate to "an invisible active force" that, presumably, is what I have termed "a non-person"?JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 1 by Checkpoint]
In the Jehovah's Witness faith the Holy spirit is believed to be God's active force (power in action) that He (God) uses to further his will and purpose. This is because Besides being translated ‘spirit,’ ruʹach [Hebrew] is also translated ‘wind’ and by other words that denote an invisible active force.� (Compare footnotes at Genesis 3:8; 8:1.)
JW
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Checkpoint
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Re: The Holy Spirit is?
Post #6[Replying to post 3 by ttruscott]
As a Trinitarian, you have thereby defined that the Holy Spirit is the third person of that trinity, someone different from and other than the Father or the Son.
Not quite a misnomer.As a Trinitarian I accept the Holy Spirit as a person named the Holy Spirit...in other words, asking which person is a misnomer.
As a Trinitarian, you have thereby defined that the Holy Spirit is the third person of that trinity, someone different from and other than the Father or the Son.
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Elijah John
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Post #7
If God the Father is Spirit, as is suggested in the Gospel of John, and the Holy Spirit is Spirit, then that really seems like two Spirits. Why the distinction? (rhetorical question) Two Spirits would be Two Gods.
How 'bout this instead. The Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit of YHVH, the "Spirit of your Father" as Jesus puts it.
Not a separate person, but rather God with us and in us. It is the Holy Spirit who is thus "Immanuel".
No need for God to divide Himself into two persons, He is, after all, God. If anyone can "bilocate" it's God. He can reign in Heaven, and be with us on Earth, at the same time. And His Presence on Earth is the Holy Spirit.
Also, isn't the Holy Spirit simply what Jews call "Ruach Hakodesh"? (sp?)
How 'bout this instead. The Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit of YHVH, the "Spirit of your Father" as Jesus puts it.
Not a separate person, but rather God with us and in us. It is the Holy Spirit who is thus "Immanuel".
No need for God to divide Himself into two persons, He is, after all, God. If anyone can "bilocate" it's God. He can reign in Heaven, and be with us on Earth, at the same time. And His Presence on Earth is the Holy Spirit.
Also, isn't the Holy Spirit simply what Jews call "Ruach Hakodesh"? (sp?)
My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
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Checkpoint
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Post #8
[Replying to post 4 by May_Queen44]
What you have posted is totally off-topic and has no place on this thread.Forgive me for the length of my replies, I do believe these posts get the point across tho.
YHVH: The Truth About "Yaweh" "Jehova"
Taking the Mask Off of Christianity
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JehovahsWitness
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Re: The Holy Spirit is?
Post #9Checkpoint wrote:JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 1 by Checkpoint]
In the Jehovah's Witness faith the Holy spirit is believed to be God's active force (power in action) that He (God) uses to further his will and purpose. This is because Besides being translated ‘spirit,’ ruʹach [Hebrew] is also translated ‘wind’ and by other words that denote an invisible active force.� (Compare footnotes at Genesis 3:8; 8:1.)
JW
How can you relate to "an invisible active force" that, presumably, is what I have termed "a non-person"?
The relationship is with God, not with his spirit. God's spirit is merely the power he uses to get things done. It's part of God but it isn't God or another God. Think of it as the "hand of God". If you were in love with someone and they have two hands, would would it make sense to ask "how can you have a relationship with hands?" their hands are what the person uses to move things, lift you up if you fall, comfort and stroke you if you are hurt, fight for you if you need defending, make food for you if you are hungry... but the relationship is with the PERSON not with their hands.
God is invisible, we don't have to physically see him with our eyes to relate to him; we don't have to see his spirit to know what it is or feel its force in our lives.
JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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ttruscott
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Post #10
Yes, your strong opinions (not truths) are obvious but will probably be ignored by Christians who are good sheep who just believe without knowledge.May_Queen44 wrote: Forgive me for the length of my replies, I do believe these posts get the point across tho.
YHVH: The Truth About "Yaweh" "Jehova"
Taking the Mask Off of Christianity
The Judeo/Christian Bible has always used extreme fear as a tool to keep people away from the occult, sorcery, "witchcraft,� and workings of the mind. In the article below, the reasons are obvious. In order for a spell to succeed, the victim must lack the necessary knowledge, be a good sheep, and just "believe."
PCE Theology as I see it...
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
