Partial Universalism?

[liamconnor]

Does Paul believe that every single Jew will eventually be saved, both past, future (from his perspective) and present?


26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; (Rom 11:26 ESV)

[Anomaly]

[Replying to post 69 by onewithhim]

Perhaps we can agree that to be "saved" anyone would have to believe in the Messiah. So does what Paul says in Romans mean that at some point all Jews would be converted to Christianity?

No. As a nation, the natural descendants of Abraham rejected Jesus as the Messiah, and in the years after Jesus' death and resurrection, it was clear that there would be no wholesale conversion of Jews to Christianity. Still...Paul's statement that "all Israel would be saved" was true. How?

Jesus said to the religious leaders of his day, "The kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits." (Matthew 21:43) So, because the nation of Israel as a whole rejected Jesus, Jehovah would turn His attention to a new "nation," a spiritual one. Paul called this "nation" "the Israel of God." (Galatians 6:16) Other passages in the N.T. establish that "the Israel of God" is made up of 144,000 spirit-anointed Christians (Romans 8:15-17; Revelation 7:4). That this group would include non-Jews is confirmed by Rev.5:9,10, which shows that anointed Christians come out of "every tribe and tongue and people and nation." The members of spiritual Israel were specially selected to be "a kingdom and priests....and they are to rule as kings over the earth." Although Jehovah rejected Israel as a chosen nation, individuals could become reconciled to Him. That was the case with the Apostles and many other early Christians. Of course, such Jews, like all other humans, had to be bought with the blood of Jesus Christ (I Tim.2:5,6; Heb.2:9; I Peter 1:17-19).

The fact that the majority of fleshly Jews in the first century lost out on the opportunity to become corulers with Jesus did not thwart God's purpose. This could never be, for Jehovah stated through his prophet: "So my word that goes forth from my mouth will prove to be. It will not return to me without results, but it will certainly do that in which I have delighted, and it will have certain success in that for which I have sent it." (Isaiah 55:11) That is true with regards to God's purpose to install 144,000 co-rulers alongside His Son in heaven. The Bible makes clear that God would anoint a complete number of 144,000. Not one would be missing. (Rev.14:1-5)

Thus....when Paul wrote that "all Israel would be saved," or "their fulfillment" would be more rich.....he was not foretelling a mass conversion of Jews to Christianity. Rather, he meant that God's purpose to have 144,000 spiritual Israelites ruling with His Son, Jesus Christ, in heaven would be fulfilled. In God's due time, the complete number---"all Israel"---would be in a saved condition, eventually ruling as kings and priests in the Messianic Kingdom (Eph. 2:8).

This is one of very many examples of how so many today perform linguistic gymnastics to "drown out" the straightforward teaching of Paul in Romans 11 and other of his writings, by forcing their doctrines on his words. Explaining away tensions using doctrine is not the path to truth. This just creates new tensions.

[Waterfall]

[Replying to post 65 by Anomaly]

I don't understand why you feel you are in the Twilight Zone as you consider my post. Care to explain why my answers are so bizarre?

If not, thanks anyway for your respectful closing.

If we are well-versed in Scripture, we know that the telling factor in whether or not the unrighteous are "thrown into the fire prepared for the devil" (that is, annihilation) is whether or not they treated Christ's brothers well.

But you are well-versed in literalism; I gently suggest that this isn’t necessarily the same as being well-versed in the truth.

So those who go to church regularly, profess love for Christ and brethren give freely and are quick to help fellow Christians—but pass by the drunk laying in the gutter, cheat on their taxes and spouse—get a ‘get home free’ ticket because they treated their own well? This is exactly the sort of logical trap a harshly literal explanation of Scripture leads you into. As long as you’re part of the “good old boy� club and perform certain works laid out in the Bible, you’ll get saved. And what becomes of the atheist who stopped to care for that drunk in the gutter, is faithful to his spouse and honest on his taxes, but rejects Christ? He gets thrown into the furnace and obliterated because he didn’t play the same games you did? Do you just turn a blind eye to common sense and logic in order to embrace your exclusivity? This is base Pharisaism.

Read Luke 10:30-36…some who are last will be first, and some first will be last.

Certainly everyone has a speck of good in them…But how does a person feel about Christ and his representatives on the earth, and what He is doing to warn the world of the coming destruction of the evil system of things?

This is a Twilight Zone entry. I pointed out in the argument in post #38 (and again in #51) that God establishes in Gen 18 the principle that He will not destroy a whole in which good exists. The force of this line of reasoning was demonstrated in Abraham’s speech in vv. 23-25: "Wilt Thou indeed sweep away the righteous with the wicked?...Suppose there are fifty righteous within the city; wilt Thou indeed sweep it away and not spare the place for the sake of the fifty righteous who are in it? Far be it from Thee to do such a thing, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous and the wicked are treated alike. Far be it from Thee! Shall not the Judge of all the earth deal justly?" This principle is repeated in Isa 42:3: “A bruised reed He will not break, And a dimly burning wick He will not extinguish; He will faithfully bring forth justice.�

Your acknowledgement that there is a speck of good in everyone brings on the aforementioned Twilight Zone effect as you’re apparently oblivious to the logical consequences of this admission with respect to the argument I provided. I’m guessing my Annihilationist brethren who see the truth of the argument presented are those who are wisely not responding to the thread. The Twilight Zone comes into being when you continue to parrot your doctrine with ostensibly no grasp of the claims made of the Gen 18 account or the tension to your doctrine it establishes.

There is no Universalism in what Jesus says there in chapter 25 of Matthew about the sheep and the goats. Annihilating the wicked does not violate the "perfection of God's justice." It is perfectly just to eliminate evil from the universe. There is nothing perfect about allowing it to remain.

See preceding paragraph, onewithin. I rest my case.

You seem to be devoid of the understanding that there are people who do not want to be "good." Is forcing a person to be good by taking away part or most of his own thinking faculties what you call just?...God lets people be what they want to be, and if they want to take advantage of others and will not stop doing so, then they must be removed from those people who truly desire to live according to God's standards.

God doesn't want lobotomized automatons…

This is one of the most tiring, trite arguments made against universalism. In the pride of our falsified hearts, humans naturally assign a much higher autonomy to the “freedom� of human choice than is prudent. Choice is greatly impaired on a number of levels, it’s not free. The falsification of human essence [essentially spiritual disease, leading to spiritual death] has causative effect on our cognitive abilities. There exists tension and resistance between truth and falsity, and we unite with true or false propositions mostly to the degree we falsify ourselves according to our choices. We possess prescriptive beliefs and worldviews that stand in various concurrent stages of accord and conflict to absolute truth. We stand thus to the degree our soul, spirit or essence, designed to subsist in a wholly true state, is falsified. Bad choices lead to falsification of the soul. One gradually comes to unite with [accept] false prescriptive propositions—from doctrinal beliefs to social issues like funding social programs, gun control, abortion, etc.—as essence becomes increasingly falsified. The more we accept falsehoods, the more our outlook and worldview—including religious, cultural and social beliefs—tends to swing in certain identifiable directions. We're seeing this pattern developing at an accelerated rate in the degree of social unrest in the US and around the world today.

The point is that humans are spiritually diseased. Why would a loving God who knows people are diseased annihilate them or commit them to eternal separation and punishment when it is within His power to heal? If falsity in human spirit causes hatred of God and His Truth, then the destruction of that hatred-causing falsity and its restoration to a true state destroys the tension and resistance against absolute Truth the falsified mind exists in, and establishes union with it. In other words, by annihilating those false elements in our essence that produce resistance to truth, and restoring same elements to true, God is destroying our hatred of Him and establishing conformity and concord. Truth unites with truth. God is Truth. The soul made wholly true unites [is one, see Jn 17] with Truth. This is salvation.

Also, this is how the mystery, which Paul saw and passed on to us in Rom 11 by noting that literally all Israel will be saved, unfolds in Scripture. I beg to differ onewithin; when goats and sheep in Mat 25 are removed from the literal understanding of Scripture and placed where God designed them to be—in the allegorical truth of His word—they consist of only one of multiple metaphors that teach how it can be that not only all Israel, but correspondingly all humans, will be restored to perfection and union with God in truth.

Your kind of thinking sounds good to me.

Is it alright to make a little fun of it all...

Because why are people trying to sell me a brain? That is very funny to me...because do I look like one who needs a brain?

Maybe a heart...but a brain...really?

Next time I would like to be born in a family where there is a piano in the house

Why?

[youtube] [/youtube]

[Waterfall]

[Replying to post 72 by Waterfall]

Hi Anomaly and onewhithim

Sorry about that respons (the "fun" part).

I was drunk, so...

Best to you both

[Benoni]

Romans 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Who is Israel?

There were twelve tribes, the Bible had Benjamin and Joseph (11) born by Rachel the chosen bride, then their ten half brothers born by maid servants and their names were, Rueben (1), Simeon (2), Levi(3), Judah(4), Dan(5), Naphtali(6), Gad(7), Asher(8), Issachar(9) and Zebulun(10), this can be found in Genesis 29.

The twelve tribes under David and Solomon were one nation but later were separated in fact the name of the ten tribes during this separation was “Israel�. During the separation Judah and Benjamin were known as Judah. Israel; the northern ten tribes were later scattered and lost absorbed into many nations. Point being no one really knows where they are or who they are.

So your nation of Israel today is not Israel just two tribes Judah (Benjamin and Judah).

What did Jesus actually say was the only reason that he first came ?
Why is this not discussed or understood in the walls of religion today

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the House of Israel


Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the House of Israel

But most who call themselves 'Christian' do not even know he said this or acknowledge this verse, let alone knowing who the House of Israel are or that the new covenant of grace is ONLY with those whose fathers broke the old covenant, with the descendants of the House of Israel and the House of Judah ...


Do you see how far religion has strayed , it no longer seeks out the House of Israel that the disciples of Jesus were commanded to go and find, scattered amongst the gentiles :-[/color]

BUT THERE IS MORE!!!!!


Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the House of Israel.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the House of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the House of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the House of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

So with this information who are the lost tribes, I will not answer because all I can do is assume, nor do I know how much sand is in a dump truck; but compared to the sand in the sea shore, or the stars in the heaven; NOT MUCH.



Genesis 32:12And thou saidst, I will surely do thee good, and make thy seed as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude.
Genesis 22:16-18 (King James Version)
16And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

How many millions of grains of sand can you put in your two hands at the sea shore; how many stars can you count on a cold winter day; and that only the ones you can see. Just think how many grains of sand in a dump truck?

I see one more spiritual mystery here. Sand is symbolic of the earth and the stars symbolic of the heavenly.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 69 by onewithhim]

Why did Paul not mention the number 144,000? He simply said, ALL Israel. What Roman recipient of the letter would have concluded from this, "Clearly Paul means by ALL, a mere 144,000"?

Your theory depends on the wide dispensation of Revelation, which had not yet been written.

It doesn't matter. The number of Jesus' co-rulers wasn't important back then. Paul was just thrilled that he and others would be raised up to life in heaven with Jesus, to rule over the world. He realized that he and the others would constitute "the Israel of God," and it would include Gentiles as well.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 69 by onewithhim]

Perhaps we can agree that to be "saved" anyone would have to believe in the Messiah. So does what Paul says in Romans mean that at some point all Jews would be converted to Christianity?

No. As a nation, the natural descendants of Abraham rejected Jesus as the Messiah, and in the years after Jesus' death and resurrection, it was clear that there would be no wholesale conversion of Jews to Christianity. Still...Paul's statement that "all Israel would be saved" was true. How?

Jesus said to the religious leaders of his day, "The kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits." (Matthew 21:43) So, because the nation of Israel as a whole rejected Jesus, Jehovah would turn His attention to a new "nation," a spiritual one. Paul called this "nation" "the Israel of God." (Galatians 6:16) Other passages in the N.T. establish that "the Israel of God" is made up of 144,000 spirit-anointed Christians (Romans 8:15-17; Revelation 7:4). That this group would include non-Jews is confirmed by Rev.5:9,10, which shows that anointed Christians come out of "every tribe and tongue and people and nation." The members of spiritual Israel were specially selected to be "a kingdom and priests....and they are to rule as kings over the earth." Although Jehovah rejected Israel as a chosen nation, individuals could become reconciled to Him. That was the case with the Apostles and many other early Christians. Of course, such Jews, like all other humans, had to be bought with the blood of Jesus Christ (I Tim.2:5,6; Heb.2:9; I Peter 1:17-19).

The fact that the majority of fleshly Jews in the first century lost out on the opportunity to become corulers with Jesus did not thwart God's purpose. This could never be, for Jehovah stated through his prophet: "So my word that goes forth from my mouth will prove to be. It will not return to me without results, but it will certainly do that in which I have delighted, and it will have certain success in that for which I have sent it." (Isaiah 55:11) That is true with regards to God's purpose to install 144,000 co-rulers alongside His Son in heaven. The Bible makes clear that God would anoint a complete number of 144,000. Not one would be missing. (Rev.14:1-5)

Thus....when Paul wrote that "all Israel would be saved," or "their fulfillment" would be more rich.....he was not foretelling a mass conversion of Jews to Christianity. Rather, he meant that God's purpose to have 144,000 spiritual Israelites ruling with His Son, Jesus Christ, in heaven would be fulfilled. In God's due time, the complete number---"all Israel"---would be in a saved condition, eventually ruling as kings and priests in the Messianic Kingdom (Eph. 2:8).

This is one of very many examples of how so many today perform linguistic gymnastics to "drown out" the straightforward teaching of Paul in Romans 11 and other of his writings, by forcing their doctrines on his words. Explaining away tensions using doctrine is not the path to truth. This just creates new tensions.

Paul writes many things about spiritual Israel and "the Israel of God" that are very straightforward, such as Romans 2:28,29; Galatians 3:26-29; Galatians 4:22-26; Galatians 6:14-16. Yet you strangely hang a whole other meaning on what he said in Romans 11. How do you harmonize Romans 11 with the other verses? It is not I who have "performed linguistic gymnastics to drown out the straightforward teaching of Paul by forcing my doctrines on his words." It is YOU who have done exactly that.

[Left Site]

Does Paul believe that every single Jew will eventually be saved, both past, future (from his perspective) and present?


26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; (Rom 11:26 ESV)

No. He explains in further letters that the natural Jews have been replaced as a special nation by the Christian congregation---all those believing in Christ.

"But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God." (Galatians 6:14-16, NASB)

He clearly designates the "Israel of God" to be those who walk by the rule of "boasting" in the cross of Christ. He goes on to say: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in union with Christ Jesus. Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham's seed, heirs with reference to a promise." (Galatians 3:28,29) It is only the Christians who make up the Israel of God. Being a natural Jew no longer means anything. Isn't that what he says above? Of course there are many natural Jews that do believe in Jesus, from the time of Jesus to now. But it is their acceptance of Jesus that makes them God's special people.

Peter said to a group of Christians: "You are a 'chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies' of the One that called you out of darkness into His wonderful light. For you were once not a people, but are now God's people." (I Peter 2:9,10)

This is what we call "proof texting": isolating sentences to prove one's point.

How about an exegesis of the passage in question? First year students in biblical studies are taught to read a passage and not impose upon a passage.

That is what is called showing evidence from the Bible to prove one's point. What would YOU say about those verses? It looks pretty clear to me.

That is what is called showing evidence from the Bible to prove one's point. What would YOU say about those verses? It looks pretty clear to me.

I though it was obvious. In Ro 11 Paul states the following:

1) There is at present a spiritual and non-spiritual Israel.

2) Non-spiritual Israel has been hardened according to scripture (O.t.).

3) At present, the "full number of Gentiles" is the main theme of this eschatological chapter.

4) In this chapter, the church, comprised predominantly of Gentiles, with a minority of Jews, carry on the Abrahamic vocation.

5) Once the full number of Gentiles is achieved, then all the Jews will recognize Jesus as God's appointed savior.

6) After this, the general resurrection will take place.

If I am wrong concerning what I am about to say in critiquing the six points you made, please forgive me, and now comes the "but":

But the picture of the field being harvested given by Jesus indicates only two times of harvest. The first is the early harvest by which first-fruits are taken in. This early harvest is only those whom God has matured sooner than the rest of the field of harvest to serve as king/priests in association with and under Christ. That is why they are called first-fruits. They cannot all be first-fruits. And both harvests cover every nationality,

Those of the late harvest cannot be called first-fruits. Those of the late harvest will not be king/priests with Christ. Instead, they will be the subjects under those king/priests, yet in need of that priestly function on their behalf during the thousand years. But please understand that because this timing of the harvest is being spoken of spiritually there can therefore be an overlapping of the two events.

It is not all one harvest. There is the harvest of the first-fruits and then later comes the harvest of the slower maturing wheat. Both harvests are for everyone regardless of what nationality. There is no special end time harvest for Jews only shown anywhere in the scriptures and Jesus certainly never spoke of such a thing.

The harvest Paul primarily concerns himself with is the early harvest of the first-fruits but that does not mean he ignores the slower maturing wheat. At Romans 11 Paul is primarily concerned about that early harvest, also. However, be patient and weigh in my next comment before you set any conclusion about this.

The only complaint I have about the JW's way of seeing this is their view that it was only the the first-fruits being harvested back then. They have not grasped that even the timing is spiritual, as I said earlier. Surely not all that entered the congregation back then would go onto be worthy of that higher calling and would have to therefore be a part of that later harvest. After all, it works that way yet today.

[Benoni]

Does Paul believe that every single Jew will eventually be saved, both past, future (from his perspective) and present?


26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; (Rom 11:26 ESV)

No. He explains in further letters that the natural Jews have been replaced as a special nation by the Christian congregation---all those believing in Christ.

"But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God." (Galatians 6:14-16, NASB)

He clearly designates the "Israel of God" to be those who walk by the rule of "boasting" in the cross of Christ. He goes on to say: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in union with Christ Jesus. Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham's seed, heirs with reference to a promise." (Galatians 3:28,29) It is only the Christians who make up the Israel of God. Being a natural Jew no longer means anything. Isn't that what he says above? Of course there are many natural Jews that do believe in Jesus, from the time of Jesus to now. But it is their acceptance of Jesus that makes them God's special people.

Peter said to a group of Christians: "You are a 'chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies' of the One that called you out of darkness into His wonderful light. For you were once not a people, but are now God's people." (I Peter 2:9,10)

This is what we call "proof texting": isolating sentences to prove one's point.

How about an exegesis of the passage in question? First year students in biblical studies are taught to read a passage and not impose upon a passage.

That is what is called showing evidence from the Bible to prove one's point. What would YOU say about those verses? It looks pretty clear to me.

That is what is called showing evidence from the Bible to prove one's point. What would YOU say about those verses? It looks pretty clear to me.

I though it was obvious. In Ro 11 Paul states the following:

1) There is at present a spiritual and non-spiritual Israel.

2) Non-spiritual Israel has been hardened according to scripture (O.t.).

3) At present, the "full number of Gentiles" is the main theme of this eschatological chapter.

4) In this chapter, the church, comprised predominantly of Gentiles, with a minority of Jews, carry on the Abrahamic vocation.

5) Once the full number of Gentiles is achieved, then all the Jews will recognize Jesus as God's appointed savior.

6) After this, the general resurrection will take place.

If I am wrong concerning what I am about to say in critiquing the six points you made, please forgive me, and now comes the "but":

But the picture of the field being harvested given by Jesus indicates only two times of harvest. The first is the early harvest by which first-fruits are taken in. This early harvest is only those whom God has matured sooner than the rest of the field of harvest to serve as king/priests in association with and under Christ. That is why they are called first-fruits. They cannot all be first-fruits. And both harvests cover every nationality,

Those of the late harvest cannot be called first-fruits. Those of the late harvest will not be king/priests with Christ. Instead, they will be the subjects under those king/priests, yet in need of that priestly function on their behalf during the thousand years. But please understand that because this timing of the harvest is being spoken of spiritually there can therefore be an overlapping of the two events.

It is not all one harvest. There is the harvest of the first-fruits and then later comes the harvest of the slower maturing wheat. Both harvests are for everyone regardless of what nationality. There is no special end time harvest for Jews only shown anywhere in the scriptures and Jesus certainly never spoke of such a thing.

The harvest Paul primarily concerns himself with is the early harvest of the first-fruits but that does not mean he ignores the slower maturing wheat. At Romans 11 Paul is primarily concerned about that early harvest, also. However, be patient and weigh in my next comment before you set any conclusion about this.

The only complaint I have about the JW's way of seeing this is their view that it was only the the first-fruits being harvested back then. They have not grasped that even the timing is spiritual, as I said earlier. Surely not all that entered the congregation back then would go onto be worthy of that higher calling and would have to therefore be a part of that later harvest. After all, it works that way yet today.

Very nicely written and I agree. Obadiah 1:21 And saviourS shall come up on mount Zion (the high places of Ruleship in the kingdom) to judge the mount of Esau (Flesh); and the kingdom shall be the LORD's.

Zion is the high place of God's ruler ship.

[JP Cusick]

During the separation Judah and Benjamin were known as Judah. Israel; the northern ten tribes were later scattered and lost absorbed into many nations. Point being no one really knows where they are or who they are.

The lost tribes have been found through the prophesy of the last days, see here "The United States and Britain in Bible Prophesy"

It is impressive that you know so much without having the final piece.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the House of Israel

But most who call themselves 'Christian' do not even know he said this or acknowledge this verse,

The intention of blessing Israel was in order to bless the entire human race and to bless the entire world, and as such Israel was to be the Shepherd to the world, and so the lost sheep of Israel means the entire human race.

The people of Israel were not to be the sheep, as they were to be a Kingdom of Priest, and the rest of humanity were the "lost sheep".

Jesus came for the lost sheep who were lost by the failure of Israel to be their Shepherd.

I see one more spiritual mystery here. Sand is symbolic of the earth and the stars symbolic of the heavenly.

Wow - that is very insightful.

Cheers.

[Benoni]

[Replying to JP Cusick]

I know what British Israelism is but I see more for God is a God of the realm of the Spirit not the flesh. Yes there is a sand realm (Flesh) bit there is also a higher realm of the stars (spirit). Mt Zion/Sion is the elect of God the narrow gate not Physical Israel. Mt Zion is where the King live/lived. Mt Zion is where the Tabernacle of David is from (Acts 15) those who will rule and reign as Kings and Priest and yes to call the remainder of all the human race in the ages to come.