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paarsurrey1
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:45 am  Are there eulogizers of science out of blind-faith? Reply with quote

Are there eulogizers of science out of blind-faith?
All those people who have not performed all the experiments of Sciences themselves yet they believe in Science doing things science does not claim to be concerned with. They believe in Science out of blind-faith. Right, please?
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One may like to read Post 82 thread "What is God?"
Debating Christianity and Religion Forum Index -> Christianity and Apologetics
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 31: Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:44 pm
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Re: Are there eulogizers of science out of blind-faith?

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marco wrote:

paarsurrey1 wrote:



Jesus first time coming and then Second Coming is a religious matter, it will be settled by Word of Revelation, not by science. Second Coming has already taken place in the form of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908, so the matter stands resolved. It was, therefore not a blind-faith. Science and religion work under different framework and it must be like that. Right, please?



Science works hard to prove; religion works hard to delude. So Jesus, who was to sail back to earth on a cloud with a scimitar in his hand, arrived incognito and died just before the First World War, having done next to nothing? And with a changed name! This is amusing but if one actually believes this, there is sadness too.

... and let's not forget David Koresh of the Branch Davidians, not to mention:

Jewish messiah claimants[edit]
Main article: Jewish messianic claimants
In Judaism, "messiah" originally meant a divinely appointed king, such as David, Cyrus the Great[1] or Alexander the Great.[2] Later, especially after the failure of the Hasmonean Kingdom (37 BC) and the Jewish–Roman wars (AD 66–135), the figure of the Jewish Messiah was one who would deliver the Jews from oppression and usher in an Olam Haba ("world to come") or Messianic Age. However the term "false messiah" was largely absent from rabbinic literature. The first mention is in the Sefer Zerubbabel, from the mid-seventh century, which uses the term, mashiah sheker, ("false messiah").[3]
Athronges (c. 3 CE),[10] a shepherd turned rebel leader.
Simon bar Kokhba (died c. 135), founded a short-lived Jewish state before being defeated in the Second Jewish-Roman War.
Moses of Crete, who in about 440–470 persuaded the Jews of Crete to walk into the sea, as Moses had done, to return to Israel. The results were disastrous and he soon disappeared.
Ishak ben Ya'kub Obadiah Abu 'Isa al-Isfahani (684–705), who led a revolt in Persia against the Umayyad Caliph 'Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan.
David Alroy, born in Kurdistan, who around 1160 agitated against the caliph before being assassinated.
Moses Botarel of Cisneros, active around 1413; claimed to be a sorcerer able to combine the names of God.
Asher Lämmlein, a German near Venice who proclaimed himself a forerunner of the Messiah in 1502.
David Reubeni (1490–1541?) and Solomon Molcho (1500–1532), messianic adventurers who travelled in Portugal, Italy and Turkey; Molcho, who was a baptised Catholic, was tried by the Inquisition, convicted of apostasy and burned at the stake.
Sabbatai Zevi (1626–1676), an Ottoman Jew who claimed to be the Messiah, but then converted to Islam; still has followers today in the Dönmeh.
Jacob Querido (?–1690), claimed to be the new incarnation of Sabbatai; later converted to Islam and led the Dönmeh.
Miguel Cardoso (1630–1706), another successor of Sabbatai who claimed to be the "Messiah ben Ephraim".
Löbele Prossnitz (?–1750), attained some following amongst former followers of Sabbatai, calling himself the "Messiah ben Joseph".
Jacob Joseph Frank (1726–1791), who claimed to be the reincarnation of King David and preached a synthesis of Christianity and Judaism.
Yosef Yitzchak Schneersohn (r. 1920–1950), sixth Rebbe (spiritual leader) of Chabad Lubavitch.[11][12]
Menachem Mendel Schneerson (1902–1994), seventh Rebbe (spiritual leader) of Chabad.[11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21]
Christian messiah claimants[edit]

Mirza Husayn 'Ali Nuri, Baha'u'llah

Simon Magus
See also: Antichrist, List of people claimed to be Jesus, and Second Coming
Verses in the Christian Bible tell that Jesus will come again in some fashion; various people have claimed to, in fact, be the second coming of Jesus. Others have been styled a new messiah still under the umbrella of Christianity. The Synoptic gospels (Matthew 24:4, 6, 24; Mark 13:5, 21-22; and Luke 21:3) all use the term pseudochristos for messianic pretenders.[22]
Simon Magus (early 1st century), was a Samaritan, and a native of Gitta; he was considered a god in Simonianism; he "darkly hinted" that he himself was Christ, calling himself the Standing One.
Dositheos the Samaritan (mid 1st century), was one of the supposed founders of Mandaeanism. After the time of Jesus he wished to persuade the Samaritans that he himself was the Messiah prophesied by Moses.[23] Dositheus pretended to be the Christ (Messiah), applying Deuteronomy 18:15 to himself, and he compares him with Theudas and Judas the Galilean.[23][24]
Tanchelm of Antwerp (c. 1110), who violently opposed the sacrament and the Eucharist.
Ann Lee (1736–1784), a central figure to the Shakers,[25] who thought she "embodied all the perfections of God" in female form and considered herself to be Christ’s female counterpart in 1772.[26]
Bernhard Müller (c. 1799–1834) claimed to be the Lion of Judah and a prophet in possession of the Philosopher's stone.
John Nichols Thom (1799–1838), who had achieved fame and followers as Sir William Courtenay and adopted the claim of Messiah after a period in a mental institute.[27]
Arnold Potter (1804–1872), Latter Day Saint schismatic leader; called himself "Potter Christ"
Hong Xiuquan (1814–1864), Hakka Chinese; claimed himself to be the younger brother of Jesus Christ; started the Taiping Rebellion and founded the Heavenly Kingdom of Great Peace. Committed suicide before the fall of Tianjing (Nanjing) in 1864.
Mirza Husayn 'Ali Nuri, Bahá'u'lláh (1817–1864), born Shiite, adopting Bábism later in life, he claimed to be the promised one of all religions, and founded the Bahá'í Faith.
Jacobina Mentz Maurer (1841 or 1842–1874) was a German-Brazilian woman who lived and died in the state of Rio Grande do Sul who emerged as a messianic prophetess, a representation of God, and later declared the very reincarnation of Jesus Christ on earth by her German-speaking community called Die Muckers (or the false saints) by her enemies, Die Spotters (or the mockers). After a number of deadly confrontations with outsiders, Jacobina was shot to death together with many of her followers by the Brazilian Imperial Army.
William W. Davies (1833–1906), Latter Day Saint (Mormon) schismatic leader; claimed that his infant son Arthur (born 1868) was the reincarnated Jesus Christ.
Cyrus Reed Teed (October 18, 1839 – December 22, 1908, erroneously Cyrus Tweed) was a U.S. eclectic physician and alchemist turned religious leader and messiah. In 1869, claiming divine inspiration, Dr. Teed took on the name Koresh and proposed a new set of scientific and religious ideas he called Koreshanity.
Abd-ru-shin (18 April 1875 – 6 December 1941), founder of the Grail Movement.[28][29][30][31]
Father Divine (George Baker) (c. 1880 – September 10, 1965), an African American spiritual leader from about 1907 until his death who claimed to be God.
André Matsoua (1899–1942), Congolese founder of Amicale, proponents of which subsequently adopted him as Messiah in the late 1920s.
Samael Aun Weor (1917–1977), born Víctor Manuel Gómez Rodríguez, Colombian citizen and later Mexican, was an author, lecturer and founder of the 'Universal Christian Gnostic Movement', according to him, 'the most powerful movement ever founded'. By 1972, he referenced that his death and resurrection would be occurring before 1978.[32]
Ahn Sahng-hong (1918–1985), founder of the World Mission Society Church of God and worshiped by the members as the messiah.[33]
Sun Myung Moon (1920–2012), founder and leader of the Unification Church established in Seoul, South Korea, who considered himself the Second Coming of Christ, but not Jesus himself.[34] Although it is generally believed by Unification Church members ("Moonies") that he was the Messiah and the Second Coming of Christ and was anointed to fulfill Jesus' unfinished mission.[34]
Yahweh ben Yahweh (1935–2007), born as Hulon Mitchell, Jr., a black nationalist and separatist who created the Nation of Yahweh and allegedly orchestrated the murder of dozens of persons.
Laszlo Toth (1940–2012) claimed he was Jesus Christ as he battered Michelangelo's Pieta with a geologist hammer.
Wayne Bent (born 1941), also known as Michael Travesser of the Lord Our Righteousness Church, also known as the "Strong City Cult", convicted December 15, 2008 of one count of criminal sexual contact of a minor and two counts of contributing to the delinquency of a minor in 2008.[35]
Iesu Matayoshi (born 1944), in 1997 he established the World Economic Community Party based on his conviction that he is God and the Christ.
Jung Myung Seok (born 1945), a South Korean who was a member of the Unification Church in the 1970s, before breaking off to found the dissenting group[36] now known as Providence Church in 1980.[37][38] He also considers himself the Second Coming of Christ, but not Jesus himself in 1980.[39] He believes he has come to finish the incomplete message and mission of Jesus Christ, asserting that he is the Messiah and has the responsibility to save all mankind.[40] He claims that the Christian doctrine of resurrection is false but that people can be saved through him.[41]
Claude Vorilhon now known as Raël "messenger of the Elohim" (born 1946), a French professional test driver and former automobile journalist became founder and leader of UFO religion the Raël Movement in 1972, which teaches that life on Earth was scientifically created by a species of extraterrestrials, which they call Elohim. He claimed he met an extraterrestrial humanoid in 1973 and became the Messiah.[42] Then devoted himself to the task he said was given by his "biological father", an extraterrestrial named Yahweh.[43]
José Luis de Jesús (1946–2013), founder and leader of Creciendo en Gracia sect (Growing In Grace International Ministry, Inc.), based in Miami, Florida. He claimed to be both Jesus Christ returned and the Antichrist, and exhibited a "666" tattoo on his forearm. He has referred to himself as Jesucristo Hombre, which translates to "Jesus Christ made Man".
Inri Cristo (born 1948) of Indaial, Brazil, a claimant to be the second Jesus.[44]
Apollo Quiboloy (born 1950), founder and leader of the Kingdom of Jesus Christ religious group, who claims that Jesus Christ is the "Almighty Father," that Quiboloy is "His Appointed Son," and that salvation is now completed. Proclaims himself as the "Appointed Son of the God" not direct to the point as the "Begotten Son of the God" in 1985.[45]
David Icke (born 1952), of Great Britain, has described himself as "the son of God", and a "channel for the Christ spirit".
Brian David Mitchell was born on October 18, 1953 in Salt Lake City, Utah, he believed himself the fore-ordained angel born on earth to be the Davidic "servant" prepared by God as a type of Messiah who would restore the divinely led kingdom of Israel to the world in preparation for Christ's second coming. (Mitchell's belief in such an end-times figure – also known among many fundamentalist Latter Day Saints as "the One Mighty and Strong" – appeared to be based in part on a reading of the biblical book of Isaiah by the independent LDS Hebraist, Avraham Gileadi, with which Mitchell became familiar from his former participation with Stirling Allan's American Study Group.)[46][47]
Maria Devi Christos (born 1960), founder of the Great White Brotherhood.
Sergey Torop (born 1961), who started to call himself "Vissarion", founder of the Church of the Last Testament and the spiritual community Ecopolis Tiberkul in Southern Siberia.
Alan John Miller (born 1962), founder of Divine Truth, a new religious movement based in Australia. Alan John Miller, also known as A.J., who claims to be Jesus of Nazareth through reincarnation. Miller was formerly an elder in the Jehovah's Witnesses.
David Shayler (born 1965), former MI5 agent and whistleblower who declared himself the Messiah on 7 July 2007.[48]
Muslim messiah claimants[edit]
Main articles: List of Mahdi claimants and Masih ad-Dajjal
Islamic tradition has a prophecy of the Mahdi, who will come alongside the return of Isa (Jesus).
Muhammad Jaunpuri (1443–1505), who traveled Northeastern India; he influenced the Mahdavia and the Zikris.
Báb (1819–1850), who declared himself to be the promised Mahdi in Shiraz, Iran in 1844. (Related to Baha'i claims.)

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian, India (1835–1908), claimed to be the awaited Mahdi as well as (Second Coming) and likeness of Jesus the promised Messiah at the end of time, being the only person in Islamic history who claimed to be both. He claimed to be Jesus in the metaphorical sense; in character. He founded the Ahmadiyya Movement in 1889 envisioning it to be the rejuvenation of Islam, and claimed to be commissioned by God for the reformation of mankind.[49] He declared that Jesus survived crucifixion and died a natural death (lived over the age of 100) having migrated towards the east- Kashmir.[50]
Muhammad Ahmad ("The Mad Mahdi") (1844–1885), who declared himself the Mahdi in 1881, defeated the Ottoman Egyptian authority, and founded the Mahdist Sudan.
Sayyid Mohammed Abdullah Hassan (1864–1920), who led the Dervish State in present-day Somalia in a two-decade long resistance movement between 1900 and 1920.
Rashad Khalifa (1935–1990), an Egyptian-American biochemist who claimed that he had discovered a mathematical code in the text of the Qur'an involving the number 19; he later claimed to be the "Messenger of the Covenant" and founded the "Submitters International" movement before being murdered.
Juhayman al-Otaybi (1936–1980), who seized the Grand Mosque in Mecca in November 1979 and declared his son-in-law the Mahdi.
Other/combination messiah claimants[edit]

Haile Selassie
This list features people who are said, either by themselves or their followers, to be some form of a messiah that do not easily fit into only Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
Emperor Haile Selassie I of Ethiopia (1892–1975), Messiah of the Rastafari movement. Never claimed himself to be Messiah, but was thus proclaimed by Leonard Howell, amongst others.
André Matsoua (1899–1942), Congolese founder of Amicale, proponents of which subsequently adopted him as Messiah.
Samael Aun Weor (1917–1977), born Víctor Manuel Gómez Rodríguez, Colombian citizen and later Mexican, was an author, lecturer and founder of the Universal Christian Gnostic Movement. By 1972, Samael Aun Weor referenced that his death and resurrection would be occurring before 1978.
Nirmala Srivastava (1923–2011), guru and goddess of Sahaja Yoga, proclaimed herself to be the Comforter promised by Jesus (that is, the incarnation of the Holy Ghost / Adi Shakti).[51][52]
Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda (born 1946 – died 2013), a Puerto Rican preacher who had claimed to be both "the Man Jesus Christ" and the Antichrist at the same time. He claimed he was indwelled with the same spirit that dwelled in Jesus, however, Miranda also contradicted his claims of being Christ incarnate by also claiming he was the Antichrist, even going as far as tattooing the number of the beast (666) on his forearm, a behavior his followers also adopted. Founder of the "Growing in Grace" ministries, Miranda died on August 14, 2013 due to liver cancer.
Riaz Ahmed Gohar Shahi (born 25 November 1941) is a spiritual leader and the founder of the spiritual movements Messiah Foundation International (MFI) and Anjuman Serfaroshan-e-Islam.[53][54] He is controversial for being declared the Mehdi, Messiah, and Kalki Avatar by the MFI.[55][56][57]
Raël, founder and leader of Raëlism (born 30 September 1946); Rael claimed he met an extraterrestrial being in 1973 and became the Messiah.
World Teacher (unknown), a being claimed to be the Theosophical Maitreya and the Messiah (promised one) of all religions. He is said to have descended from the higher planes and manifested a physical body in early 1977 in the Himalayas, then on 19 July 1977 he is said to have taken a commercial airplane flight from Pakistan to England. He is currently said to be living in secret in London;[58][59][60] promoted by New Age activist Benjamin Creme and his organization, Share International (See Maitreya (Benjamin Creme)).
Ryuho Okawa (born 7 July 1956), is the founder of Happy Science in Japan. Okawa claims to channel the spirits of Muhammad, Christ, Buddha and Confucius and claims to be the incarnation of the supreme spiritual being called El Cantare.
(thanks to wiki)

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 32: Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:14 pm
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Re: Are there eulogizers of science out of blind-faith?

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H.sapiens wrote:



... and let's not forget David Koresh of the Branch Davidians, not to mention:

Jewish messiah claimants[edit]
Main article: Jewish messianic claimants.....................


Impressive list of imposters! But Christ astutely said that folk like Muhammad would come along and falsely claim to speak in God's name. Unfortunately we don't know what a Prophet's passport looks like.

The important bit of information is that Christ will come not on a Jumbo Jet or a camel but on a cloud. I suspect that none of the claimants mentioned flew in via nimbus .... but I am guessing.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 33: Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:31 pm
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Re: Are there eulogizers of science out of blind-faith?

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marco wrote:

H.sapiens wrote:



... and let's not forget David Koresh of the Branch Davidians, not to mention:

Jewish messiah claimants[edit]
Main article: Jewish messianic claimants.....................


Impressive list of imposters! But Christ astutely said that folk like Muhammad would come along and falsely claim to speak in God's name. Unfortunately we don't know what a Prophet's passport looks like.

The important bit of information is that Christ will come not on a Jumbo Jet or a camel but on a cloud. I suspect that none of the claimants mentioned flew in via nimbus .... but I am guessing.
I suggest that everyone who thinks a Jesus is coming soon should hold their breath to hurry him alone.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 34: Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:38 pm
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Re: Are there eulogizers of science out of blind-faith?

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marco wrote:

paarsurrey1 wrote:



Jesus first time coming and then Second Coming is a religious matter, it will be settled by Word of Revelation, not by science. Second Coming has already taken place in the form of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908, so the matter stands resolved. It was, therefore not a blind-faith. Science and religion work under different framework and it must be like that. Right, please?



Science works hard to prove; religion works hard to delude. So Jesus, who was to sail back to earth on a cloud with a scimitar in his hand, arrived incognito and died just before the First World War, having done next to nothing? And with a changed name! This is amusing but if one actually believes this, there is sadness too.


Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 did everything he was supposed to do. His main mission was :

~to establish close and personal contact with God and that it was possible to Converse with Him, as it was earlier.
~to reform Religion
~Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 who is the Promised Messiah in character and has come to tell the true teachings of Jesus that had been corrupted by the deviant Paul, the mislead church and the sinful scribes of the gospels and had invented new creeds in Jesus’ name or supported them.

Jesus never believed that he was a god or the son of god or Jesus was to ascend to the skies literally and physically or Jesus was to resurrect from the physically dead.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad has exposed all the false creeds of Paul, Church and the scribes; all these (Paul, Church and the scribes- the authors of the Trinity) together are the Anti-Christ and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad- the Promised Messiah- his advent has taken place to refute their rebellious stance against Jesus, as Jesus’ spirit wanted that it should to be proved wrong, with the brilliant arguments of the Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and this way their false creeds/teachings/characters be killed before their eulogizers.

It is the real spiritual Armageddon, which is to establish the Unity of the ONE true Creator God and the truth of Muhammad and Quran and to support all the truthful messengers prophets in all regions of the world, with peace, love and reasonable dialogue by convincing hearts and souls.

Regards

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 35: Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:10 pm
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Re: Are there eulogizers of science out of blind-faith?

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paarsurrey1 wrote:

marco wrote:

paarsurrey1 wrote:



Jesus first time coming and then Second Coming is a religious matter, it will be settled by Word of Revelation, not by science. Second Coming has already taken place in the form of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908, so the matter stands resolved. It was, therefore not a blind-faith. Science and religion work under different framework and it must be like that. Right, please?



Science works hard to prove; religion works hard to delude. So Jesus, who was to sail back to earth on a cloud with a scimitar in his hand, arrived incognito and died just before the First World War, having done next to nothing? And with a changed name! This is amusing but if one actually believes this, there is sadness too.


Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 did everything he was supposed to do. His main mission was :

~to establish close and personal contact with God and that it was possible to Converse with Him, as it was earlier.
~to reform Religion
~Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 who is the Promised Messiah in character and has come to tell the true teachings of Jesus that had been corrupted by the deviant Paul, the mislead church and the sinful scribes of the gospels and had invented new creeds in Jesus’ name or supported them.

Jesus never believed that he was a god or the son of god or Jesus was to ascend to the skies literally and physically or Jesus was to resurrect from the physically dead.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad has exposed all the false creeds of Paul, Church and the scribes; all these (Paul, Church and the scribes- the authors of the Trinity) together are the Anti-Christ and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad- the Promised Messiah- his advent has taken place to refute their rebellious stance against Jesus, as Jesus’ spirit wanted that it should to be proved wrong, with the brilliant arguments of the Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and this way their false creeds/teachings/characters be killed before their eulogizers.

It is the real spiritual Armageddon, which is to establish the Unity of the ONE true Creator God and the truth of Muhammad and Quran and to support all the truthful messengers prophets in all regions of the world, with peace, love and reasonable dialogue by convincing hearts and souls.

Regards

Everyone in the list has as much claim on the title as does Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, even the most wack-a-doodle.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 36: Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:52 am
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Re: Are there eulogizers of science out of blind-faith?

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paarsurrey1 wrote:



Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 did everything he was supposed to do.


Presumably he did what HE SAID he was going to do. He made a big impression!

paarsurrey1 wrote:


Mirza Ghulam Ahmad has exposed all the false creeds of Paul, Church and the scribes;


His biggest fault appears to have been that he stopped people thinking for themselves and lured them into believing nonsense. Shakespeare wrote well too - but he wasn't God's messenger. As soon as someone claims to be such, we should exercise rational caution. At best, Mirza was self-deluded.

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