26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.
For debate.
Is this verse evidence that we all must "pick and choose" some passages over others in order to remain Christians?
Or is the passage evidence that Jesus used poetic language of hyperbole?
Can one "hate" and still honor one's parents? If not, then isn't Jesus preaching against an important Commandment? And if so, how could he still be considered "perfect"?
My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
Didn't you just answer your own question? Is there any sense in literally hating people, especially your parents, when his greatest commandments were about loving God and your neighbor?
I believe Jesus is suggesting to abandon and in a sense hate worldly ways and follow him above all else. Even if all your loved ones are stuck in worldly ways and shun you for this. Maybe hate the sin, not the sinner.
jgh7 wrote:
Didn't you just answer your own question? Is there any sense in literally hating people, especially your parents, when his greatest commandments were about loving God and your neighbor?
I believe Jesus is suggesting to abandon and in a sense hate worldly ways and follow him above all else. Even if all your loved ones are stuck in worldly ways and shun you for this. Maybe hate the sin, not the sinner.
Yup, that is certainly one valid way to deal with this troublesome passage. But do you think it is the only valid way?
My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
brianbbs67 wrote:
That verse is referenced to Rev.12:11.
Maybe, its hyperbole , a bit. Maybe he wanted people who wanted better than this world offers and aren't enamered with this place?
I don't think it should be a verse to stumble over. Just because we can't fathom the meaning, doesn't mean we exclude it. Certain things are mystery.
Perhaps, but if indeed this is Jesus preaching hatred for one's parents and other family members, dosn't that put him at odds with the Commandment to honor one's father and mother?
And if so, how is that "fulfilling the Law"?
My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
Luke 14:26 If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters yes, even their own life such a person cannot be my disciple.
Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words explains the Greek word employed here to be miseo can refer to ...
(a) malicious and unjustifiable feelings towards others
(b) a right feeling of aversion from what is evil
(c) a relative preference for one thing over another, by way of expressing either aversion from, or disregard for, the claims of one person or thing relatively to those of another
Given how Jesus discouraged harbouring animosity and malice and encouraged love of neighbour, it seems logical to apply definition (c) of "miseo" to the passage in question.
26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.
For debate.
Is this verse evidence that we all must "pick and choose" some passages over others in order to remain Christians?
Nope. It says we must choose some people and not others...it says we must choose some doctrines that are unpopular; a doctrine I've been scorned for here.
Can one "hate" and still honor one's parents? If not, then isn't Jesus preaching against an important Commandment? And if so, how could he still be considered "perfect"?
Scripture is clear that GOD hates the wicked yet also treats them with love. So for us, we too are called to treat those we are called to hate with as much love as we have. Love means we treat them well; hate means we are able to walk away and shut the door at any time.
PCE Theology as I see it...
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
ttruscott wrote:
Scripture is clear that GOD hates the wicked yet also treats them with love. So for us, we too are called to treat those we are called to hate with as much love as we have. Love means we treat them well; hate means we are able to walk away and shut the door at any time.
"God hates the wicked". Are you saying that parents, spouses and even children are (by default) "wicked" and worthy of hate?
So, because God hates people, yet treats them with love (???) we are supposed to do the same towards our parents, even, our spouses and our children? Hate them, but treat them with love?
Doesn't that mean we are supposed to consider others, including our loves ones, as intrinsically "hate-able"?
I must be misunderstanding what you are saying here.
My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
God hates in the Old Testament so why wouldn't God hate in the New?
Think for a moment on Islam or Hinduism. The single biggest factor behind people remaining in those religions is family. The tribe will kill you, excommunicate you, deny you. Even Judaism has this element. Even Christians use family badly.
So many opportunities are ignored because family holds us back.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
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