The Roots of Biblical and Christian Violence

Argue for and against Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Jagella
Banned
Banned
Posts: 3667
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:01 am
Been thanked: 2 times
Contact:

The Roots of Biblical and Christian Violence

Post #1

Post by Jagella »

The Bible is a book full of violence. From Genesis to Revelation and beyond to the crusades and the inquisition, it's a book with an attitude. The Bible god drowns most of the world promising never to do it that way again only to make good on his promise by burning the world at "the end of the age."

So why is the Bible and the Christian religion full of glorified violence and Bible believers so quick to defend that violence as justified?

I believe that part of the answer to this question is "land." If you consult the map of the "Old-Testament Bible lands" below...

Image

...you should see that Israel was located between Egypt to the south-west and Mesopotamia to the north-east. As warring factions between these parts of the world vied for supremacy, they needed to control that little patch of land that was to become Israel. So the Hebrews suffered continual attacks as their land was taken by conquest again and again by these greater powers.

Needless to say, the Jews were not happy with their lot. From Babylon to the "whore of Babylon," the Jews understandably felt great anger against those nations that enslaved them and occupied their homeland. Since they could not realistically drive off most of these invaders by the sword, they turned to "the word." The "word" was presumably the "sword" of their god. By writing of their god driving off these invading nations using his magical powers, the Jews hoped that not only would they gain their freedom but that they would gain that freedom safely relaxing as their god did most of the work.

So that's one of the main reasons the Bible is full of violence. The Jews and later on Christians were "writing their salvation into history" as they imagined their god freeing them from their oppressors.

But there's a bit more to what causes Christian violence and religious violence in general. People, and not just the religious, need not just land but other resources to survive and have hope for the future. Seeing that these resources may be scarce or thought to be scarce, they may well go to war over those resources if need be.

Note that in contrast to land, resources need not be "real." Resources can be and often are created in the imagination. In order to attract converts, resources like "salvation" need to be scarce and exclusively offered by one and only one religious faith. So to attain salvation, not just any religion or any Christ will do. One must put one's faith in the "true" Christ and the "true religion."

So who is the "true Christ," and what religion is the "true religion"? Considering that religion can be imagined any way you wish, any religion can claim to be true and to worship the one true Christ while denouncing all other religions and Christs as "false."

These claims of salvation as "a scarce resource" exclusively offered by one religion can lead to violence. Just like people may turn to violence over a real resource like land, they might very well turn to violence over an imaginary resource like salvation if they feel their salvation is threatened by the "false" beliefs of other faiths.

User avatar
Jagella
Banned
Banned
Posts: 3667
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:01 am
Been thanked: 2 times
Contact:

Re: The Roots of Biblical and Christian Violence

Post #2

Post by Jagella »

[Replying to post 1 by Jagella]
So why is the Bible and the Christian religion full of glorified violence and Bible believers so quick to defend that violence as justified?
Hmmm. it looks like my arguments have become so tough and so strong that no believer dares to challenge them. Evidently nobody wants their faith destroyed.

Anyway, in addition to the drive to attain scarce resources, another reason for Biblical and Christian violence is human nature. Anybody regardless of their beliefs might turn to violence. And since people authored the Bible, we see that human tendency to violence within its pages. So the god of the Bible, like us, is very imperfect and will resort to violence whenever he loses control and his anger causes him to lash out at his real or perceived enemies.

User avatar
PinSeeker
Banned
Banned
Posts: 2920
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:07 pm
Has thanked: 53 times
Been thanked: 74 times

Re: The Roots of Biblical and Christian Violence

Post #3

Post by PinSeeker »

Jagella wrote:Hmmm. it looks like my arguments have become so tough and so strong that no believer dares to challenge them.
Nope. Try again. LOL!

User avatar
Jagella
Banned
Banned
Posts: 3667
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:01 am
Been thanked: 2 times
Contact:

Re: The Roots of Biblical and Christian Violence

Post #4

Post by Jagella »

PinSeeker wrote:
Jagella wrote:Hmmm. it looks like my arguments have become so tough and so strong that no believer dares to challenge them.
Nope. Try again. LOL!
OK, we have an example right here. It's no secret that irrational thinking can lead to violence. How many arguments can logically lead to the conclusion: I need to hurt somebody?

User avatar
rikuoamero
Under Probation
Posts: 6707
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:06 pm
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: The Roots of Biblical and Christian Violence

Post #5

Post by rikuoamero »

PinSeeker wrote:
Jagella wrote:Hmmm. it looks like my arguments have become so tough and so strong that no believer dares to challenge them.
Nope. Try again. LOL!
So why the silence for three full days, between the posting of the OP and the posting of his second?
Image

Your life is your own. Rise up and live it - Richard Rahl, Sword of Truth Book 6 "Faith of the Fallen"

I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead

Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

User avatar
Wootah
Savant
Posts: 9486
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
Has thanked: 228 times
Been thanked: 118 times

Post #6

Post by Wootah »

Jagella wrote: The Bible is a book full of violence. From Genesis to Revelation and beyond to the crusades and the inquisition, it's a book with an attitude. The Bible god drowns most of the world promising never to do it that way again only to make good on his promise by burning the world at "the end of the age."

So why is the Bible and the Christian religion full of glorified violence and Bible believers so quick to defend that violence as justified?

I believe that part of the answer to this question is "land." If you consult the map of the "Old-Testament Bible lands" below...

Image

...you should see that Israel was located between Egypt to the south-west and Mesopotamia to the north-east. As warring factions between these parts of the world vied for supremacy, they needed to control that little patch of land that was to become Israel. So the Hebrews suffered continual attacks as their land was taken by conquest again and again by these greater powers.

Needless to say, the Jews were not happy with their lot. From Babylon to the "whore of Babylon," the Jews understandably felt great anger against those nations that enslaved them and occupied their homeland. Since they could not realistically drive off most of these invaders by the sword, they turned to "the word." The "word" was presumably the "sword" of their god. By writing of their god driving off these invading nations using his magical powers, the Jews hoped that not only would they gain their freedom but that they would gain that freedom safely relaxing as their god did most of the work.

So that's one of the main reasons the Bible is full of violence. The Jews and later on Christians were "writing their salvation into history" as they imagined their god freeing them from their oppressors.

But there's a bit more to what causes Christian violence and religious violence in general. People, and not just the religious, need not just land but other resources to survive and have hope for the future. Seeing that these resources may be scarce or thought to be scarce, they may well go to war over those resources if need be.

Note that in contrast to land, resources need not be "real." Resources can be and often are created in the imagination. In order to attract converts, resources like "salvation" need to be scarce and exclusively offered by one and only one religious faith. So to attain salvation, not just any religion or any Christ will do. One must put one's faith in the "true" Christ and the "true religion."

So who is the "true Christ," and what religion is the "true religion"? Considering that religion can be imagined any way you wish, any religion can claim to be true and to worship the one true Christ while denouncing all other religions and Christs as "false."

These claims of salvation as "a scarce resource" exclusively offered by one religion can lead to violence. Just like people may turn to violence over a real resource like land, they might very well turn to violence over an imaginary resource like salvation if they feel their salvation is threatened by the "false" beliefs of other faiths.
Moderator Comment
Hi Jagella

There is no question for debate. I, like many others, probably ignored your post. I can't report all posts of this rambling nature after all.

However since you felt it was making an impact such that no one could possibly respond I ask that you consider that the actual reason is that there was no question for debate.

The next time posts like this will go into random rambling.

Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

User avatar
Jagella
Banned
Banned
Posts: 3667
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:01 am
Been thanked: 2 times
Contact:

The Question for Debate

Post #7

Post by Jagella »

[Replying to post 1 by Jagella]

This is the question for debate that was (I thought) clearly posted in the OP:

So why is the Bible and the Christian religion full of glorified violence and Bible believers so quick to defend that violence as justified?

My argument never "rambles" and should be obvious to any person who fairly and honestly wishes to engage my theory of religious violence.

Post Reply