Why did peter

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

WPG12
Student
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:44 am

Why did peter

Post #1

Post by WPG12 »

In the book of John, peter decides to go fishing. The other disciples decide to go with him. When one disciple realizes it is Jesus on the shore, peter puts his clothes on and jumps out of the boat. He abandoned the work he started and left others to finish the work he started. Not caring that the others wanted to see him just as bad as peter did. Peter was always impetious and selfish.

When the others finally got the nets to the shore, Jesus asked them to bring their catch to him, peter ran and took of the catch he abandoned to bring to them. Always taking credit for what he didn't do.

Jesus, knowing peter would be sent to that "other flock", the gentiles he was told to go to, and knowing peter would jump out of that boat, also. Admonishes him asking peter if peter loves him and telling peter to feed the sheep. The gentiles peter would be sent to would become, the "body of Christ" that peter was sent to, to do the work in feeding the flock. Peter always cared about what men thought of him, and always being disobedient, jumped out of that boat when "those who came from james" caused him to fall away.

How can it be said that Jesus was restoring peter to a position he never really had in the first place, and not admonishing Peter's selfishness and disobedience, warning him not to do what he had just done in abandoning his brothers and the work he started? Whole theologies are built on this story, and the idea that Jesus was putting peter in a place peter should never have been put.

If Jesus was rewarding Peter's selfish, impetious, disobedience then it cannot be said that Jesus was a just man.

showme
Sage
Posts: 881
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:04 pm

Re: Why did peter

Post #2

Post by showme »

WPG12 wrote: In the book of John, peter decides to go fishing. The other disciples decide to go with him. When one disciple realizes it is Jesus on the shore, peter puts his clothes on and jumps out of the boat. He abandoned the work he started and left others to finish the work he started. Not caring that the others wanted to see him just as bad as peter did. Peter was always impetious and selfish.

When the others finally got the nets to the shore, Jesus asked them to bring their catch to him, peter ran and took of the catch he abandoned to bring to them. Always taking credit for what he didn't do.

Jesus, knowing peter would be sent to that "other flock", the gentiles he was told to go to, and knowing peter would jump out of that boat, also. Admonishes him asking peter if peter loves him and telling peter to feed the sheep. The gentiles peter would be sent to would become, the "body of Christ" that peter was sent to, to do the work in feeding the flock. Peter always cared about what men thought of him, and always being disobedient, jumped out of that boat when "those who came from james" caused him to fall away.

How can it be said that Jesus was restoring peter to a position he never really had in the first place, and not admonishing Peter's selfishness and disobedience, warning him not to do what he had just done in abandoning his brothers and the work he started? Whole theologies are built on this story, and the idea that Jesus was putting peter in a place peter should never have been put.

If Jesus was rewarding Peter's selfish, impetious, disobedience then it cannot be said that Jesus was a just man.
Yeshua chose Peter (Zechariah 11:16-17), and Judas (Zechariah 11:13) to fulfill the law and the prophets (Matthew 5:17), whereas Peter was to be the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:17, who would not feed, care, or tend the sheep, but abandon the flock. Judas Iscariot was chosen and identified in Matthew 27:3-10 by the quoting of Zechariah 11:12-13. Judas was made treasurer because he was greedy and would fulfill Zechariah 11:13, and Peter was chosen because he was an egotistical oaf, and would fulfill Zechariah 11:16-17. It was necessary for Peter to "fall away" and deny Yeshua to fulfill Zechariah 13:7, as referred to in (Matthew 26:31-35).

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21073
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 790 times
Been thanked: 1114 times
Contact:

Re: Why did peter

Post #3

Post by JehovahsWitness »

WPG12 wrote:
If Jesus was rewarding Peter's selfish, impetious, disobedience then it cannot be said that Jesus was a just man.

Which specific passages do you see as evidence of Jesus "rewarding Peter's selfish, impetious, disobedience"?
  • Peter, like all of us, was far from perfect, but I don't see Jesus "rewarding Peter's selfish, impetious, disobedience"; rather I see evidence in scripture that Jesus forgave a repentant man.
JEHOVAH'S WITNESS
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

User avatar
Tcg
Savant
Posts: 8487
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
Location: Third Stone
Has thanked: 2141 times
Been thanked: 2293 times

Re: Why did peter

Post #4

Post by Tcg »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
WPG12 wrote:
If Jesus was rewarding Peter's selfish, impetious, disobedience then it cannot be said that Jesus was a just man.

Which specific passages do you see as evidence of Jesus "rewarding Peter's selfish, impetious, disobedience"?
  • Peter, like all of us, was far from perfect, but I don't see Jesus "rewarding Peter's selfish, impetious, disobedience"; rather I see evidence in scripture that Jesus forgave a repentant man.
Which specific passages do you see as evidence of Jesus forgiving a repentant man?

When did this claimed forgiveness take place relative to the faults WPG12 has pointed out?

WPG12
Student
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:44 am

Re: Why did peter

Post #5

Post by WPG12 »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
WPG12 wrote:
If Jesus was rewarding Peter's selfish, impetious, disobedience then it cannot be said that Jesus was a just man.

Which specific passages do you see as evidence of Jesus "rewarding Peter's selfish, impetious, disobedience"?
  • Peter, like all of us, was far from perfect, but I don't see Jesus "rewarding Peter's selfish, impetious, disobedience"; rather I see evidence in scripture that Jesus forgave a repentant man.
JEHOVAH'S WITNESS


I don't see any passage where Jesus was rewarding Peter, jesus was admonishing peter. Warning him not to jump out of the boat when he was sent to that other flock that would be brought into the fold. Jesus three times asked peter if peter loved him, and told him to feed the sheep. Telling him to do the work he would be sent to do, but once peter started plowing those feilds he turned away from the work he was sent to start.

And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
Luke 9:62 KJV


Peter turned away from that plow yet whole theologies ignore what Jesus said, and claim peter is something he isn't.

Peter did not repent of anything, ever, leopards do not change their spots.

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21073
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 790 times
Been thanked: 1114 times
Contact:

Re: Why did peter

Post #6

Post by JehovahsWitness »

WPG12 wrote: ..., jesus was admonishing peter. Warning him not to jump out of the boat when he was sent to that other flock that would be brought into the fold..

When did Jesus tell Peter "not to jump out of the boat"?




JW
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:03 am, edited 3 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

WPG12
Student
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:44 am

Re: Why did peter

Post #7

Post by WPG12 »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
WPG12 wrote: ..., jesus was admonishing peter. Warning him not to jump out of the boat when he was sent to that other flock that would be brought into the fold..

When did Jesus tell Peter "not to jump out of the boat"?

Maybe you should read to understand what I'm saying, instead of just to try to question what I'm saying. I'm pretty sure I've made it clear.

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21073
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 790 times
Been thanked: 1114 times
Contact:

Re: Why did peter

Post #8

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 7 by WPG12]

I appreciate you may be using the expression "jump the boat" in an idiomatic sense, but I fail to see the connection, even in an idiomatic sense to Peter swimming ashore on as reported in John 21.

TO JUMP THE BOAT

1. Lit. to leave one's job on a ship and fail to be aboard it when it sails; [for a sailor] to go AWOL. One of the deckhands jumped ship at the last port. 2. Fig. to leave any post or position; to quit or resign, especially when there is difficulty with the job.

Source: Jump ship - Idioms by The Free Dictionary
Did Jesus indicate, by his questions about his (Peter's) loyalties that he did not want Peter to "quit" his future assignment when things got difficult ?
  • Yes I believe that is an accurate summary of the message Jesus was conveying when he asked three times if Peter loved him.
Should Jesus' words be taken as a reprimand for Peter's having swum ashore?
  • Absolutely not!


JW
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:27 am, edited 5 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

WPG12
Student
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:44 am

Re: Why did peter

Post #9

Post by WPG12 »

[quote="JehovahsWitness"]
[Replying to post 7 by WPG12]

While I appreciate you may be using the metaphor to indicate his general tendance to act before thinking things through (an English idiom we have for this is indeed to "jump the boat") your comment implies that Peter's actions on the occasion when he literally jumped overboard of a boat to meet Jesus was somehow rash, thoughtless and ill advised.

[quote]


I'm not implying it was rash, thoughtless, and ill advised, I'm saying not only that, but also it was in complete disobedience, lacking any moral integrity, and selfish. Peter was never concerned with anyone other than himself. This again is shown in acts, when he was lead out of prison with his non-concern for the guards. When you contrast his escape from Paul's staying in the prison when the doors were opened. Paul stayed knowing if he left the guard would be killed, Paul was more concerned with that one guards life than his own. Peter was more concerned with his own escape than multiple guards he could have converted. Peter was always impetious, selfish, and disobedient.

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21073
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 790 times
Been thanked: 1114 times
Contact:

Re: Why did peter

Post #10

Post by JehovahsWitness »

WPG12 wrote:


I'm saying not only that, but also it was in complete disobedience, lacking any moral integrity, and selfish.
That's rather harsh, all this from Peter swimming ashore? Why do you come to this conclusion? Who was Peter "disobeying"? What was morally objectionable about what he did?
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

Post Reply