Why Does God Suffer Satan?

[RedEye]

Many Christians will say that Satan is actively messing in the affairs of humankind, leading people away from the path of righteousness and seducing them into sin and immoral behaviour.

I have often wondered why God allows this. Some say that it is all part of God's plan and that there will be a final reckoning sometime in the future where Satan is defeated. The problem is that an omnipotent God does not need tactics or a battle plan. Plans are only required if you have a difficult opponent who you cannot overpower easily. God does not have that issue. He has the ultimate superpower. He can just will Satan out of existence. No devious scheme is required when you are omnipotent.

So the questions are these. Why doesn't God just get it over and done with and zap Satan into oblivion? Does God have a purpose in having Satan around to seduce God's children into wickedness? What could that purpose be? (No "God works in mysterious ways" responses please).

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by RedEye]

God didn't destroy Satan immediately because he (Satan) raised some issues that had to be settled for the well being of all concerned.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS



RELATED POSTS


Why didn't God destroy Satan immediately?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 975#845975

Why did God create beings capable of choosing to be bad?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 468#939468

Why Does God Allow Suffering? ( video 3min 45)
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/vide ... 50_1_VIDEO

[youtube][/youtube]

[ttruscott]

The problem is that an omnipotent God does not need tactics or a battle plan. Plans are only required if you have a difficult opponent who you cannot overpower easily.

How much power does it take to forgive someone?
How much power does it take to convince someone they are guilty of evil so they need to repent?

The elect are the people who were promised heaven by GOD when they chose to accept HIM as their GOD. Some of them then chose to rebel against HIS call for the judgement (ie, the use of omnipotent power to banish them to the outer darkness) all those who refused accept HIM as GOD, Satan et al.

When HIS elect became evil by their free will choice, the judgment against Satan had to be postponed or the sinful elect would have been damned at that time too. This is explained in Matt 13:27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28“ ‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up / send them to hell?’

29“ ‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest.

The time of the harvest is when the seeds are ripe and mature and the only maturity that saves a sinner from hell is to be perfectly holy.

That it has taken so long for the judgement of Satan is a measure of our frailty and of our stubbornness against holiness due to the incredibly addictive power of sin. The zap is coming when the last elect holdout to repentance gives up and repents.

I hope this helps...

[1213]

… So the questions are these. Why doesn't God just get it over and done with and zap Satan into oblivion? Does God have a purpose in having Satan around to seduce God's children into wickedness? What could that purpose be? (No "God works in mysterious ways" responses please).

I believe the reason is that people wanted to know evil, that is why we have this lesson. But as the Bible tells, we should not fear anything of this world, because:

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28

When this lesson is over, Satan’s time is also over as it will be also for those who are unrighteous and love more evil and lies than good and truth.

[Divine Insight]

Why doesn't God just get it over and done with and zap Satan into oblivion?

The Biblical God is Satan.

Does God have a purpose in having Satan around to seduce God's children into wickedness?

Think of how silly that is. If Satan is required to seduce God's children into wickedness then God's children are totally innocent since they would never fall from grace on their own merit.

In fact, this is one of the many reasons why the Biblical fables of Adam and Eve falling from grace because they were beguiled by an evil serpent makes no sense. If mankind would not have fallen from grace without being tricked by an evil serpent then mankind is already vindicated of any and all wrongdoing.

This would be a God who played a heinous trick on humans plotting to have them beguiled by an evil serpent because the humans would not fall from grace on their own. What a nasty immoral God.

What could that purpose be? (No "God works in mysterious ways" responses please).

The only purpose that could possibly be is that the God of the Bible is himself an evil demon who gets off playing heinous immoral tricks on innocent humans.

The most realistic truth is that this entire ancient religious paradigm is nothing than a very poorly thought-out collection of superstitions created by ancient barbarians who basically pushed their own barbaric behaviors onto their make-believe God.

That explains everything with nothing left unexplained.

Trying to keep these ignorant and immoral fantasies alive by spending a lifetime of making up failed apologies for these poorly thought-out tales is nothing but a waste of time as Christians have so kindly shown us.

They don't buy into each other's ridiculous apologies for this religion. Yet for some unknown reason they seem to think that non-believers will somehow buy into their particular apologies.

Unfortunately they are able to obtain some percentage of blind followers and so they think this means that it's working. And, of course, if their main goal is to make money, which is always is, then it does work. It's obviously a popular scam that countless people will buy into and even pay for.

[The Tanager]

I think free will is the most plausible answer. Satan does not force people away from God, we choose it. Zapping Satan away would not solve the problem for humans. And although God is omnipotent, He does not exercise that power over human (or angelic) will. God could, but then He would scrap the whole point of the project to begin with: to have free wills that join in His love willingly. God is patient with those wills.

[RedEye]

[Replying to post 1 by RedEye]

God didn't destroy Satan immediately because he (Satan) raised some issues that had to be settled for the well being of all concerned.

If Satan does indeed meddle in the affairs of men and causes some of the faithful to fall away from God, then taking him out would be indisputably better for their well-being. (The others who aren't swayed by Satan are unaffected, I agree). I fail to understand your objection.

If there are matters to be settled, God could settle then any time he chose simply by willing whatever was required to happen. I don't see why a passage of time is needed or why it would change anything.

[RedEye]

The problem is that an omnipotent God does not need tactics or a battle plan. Plans are only required if you have a difficult opponent who you cannot overpower easily.

How much power does it take to forgive someone?
How much power does it take to convince someone they are guilty of evil so they need to repent?

I fail to see the relevance of these questions to anything I wrote.

The elect are the people who were promised heaven by GOD when they chose to accept HIM as their GOD. Some of them then chose to rebel against HIS call for the judgement (ie, the use of omnipotent power to banish them to the outer darkness) all those who refused accept HIM as GOD, Satan et al.

Ditto.

When HIS elect became evil by their free will choice, the judgment against Satan had to be postponed or the sinful elect would have been damned at that time too. This is explained in Matt 13:27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28“ ‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up / send them to hell?’

29“ ‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest.

Are you suggesting that an omnipotent God is incapable of targeting Satan only?

The time of the harvest is when the seeds are ripe and mature and the only maturity that saves a sinner from hell is to be perfectly holy.

Again, I don't see the relevance to anything I wrote.

That it has taken so long for the judgement of Satan is a measure of our frailty and of our stubbornness against holiness due to the incredibly addictive power of sin. The zap is coming when the last elect holdout to repentance gives up and repents.

I hope this helps...

Not really. You seek to tie the removal of Satan from the picture to this vague "sinful elect" (I'm not sure who exactly you refer to since dead people are not capable of repentance). I have no idea what the two have to do with each other.

[RedEye]

… So the questions are these. Why doesn't God just get it over and done with and zap Satan into oblivion? Does God have a purpose in having Satan around to seduce God's children into wickedness? What could that purpose be? (No "God works in mysterious ways" responses please).

I believe the reason is that people wanted to know evil, that is why we have this lesson. But as the Bible tells, we should not fear anything of this world, because:

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28

When this lesson is over, Satan’s time is also over as it will be also for those who are unrighteous and love more evil and lies than good and truth.

None of that really answers my questions. You seem to be suggesting that Satan is God's tool for teaching humans a lesson. Yet most humans who have ever lived have died. You can't learn a lesson once you are dead. That makes no sense at all.

Moreover, it is immoral for God to be engaging in what is basically entrapment. In criminal law, entrapment is a practice whereby a law enforcement officer induces a person to commit a criminal offense that the person would have otherwise been unlikely or unwilling to commit. This practice is frowned upon by the law for very good reason, ie. because it is immoral to induce someone to do something they might not otherwise have done. The same thing applies with Satan (God's agent by your admission) who seduces otherwise good people into wickedness. It doesn't paint a very flattering image of your God.

[RedEye]

I think free will is the most plausible answer. Satan does not force people away from God, we choose it.

Then what need of Satan?

Zapping Satan away would not solve the problem for humans.

I'm not sure how you arrive at that conclusion. Doesn't Satan interfere with our free will by tempting us into sin?

And although God is omnipotent, He does not exercise that power over human (or angelic) will. God could, but then He would scrap the whole point of the project to begin with: to have free wills that join in His love willingly. God is patient with those wills.

I disagree. According to the Bible, God repeatedly interfered with human free will. Didn't he flood the whole Earth to wipe out almost all of humanity (and innocent animals) because he didn't like the level of wickedness in the world? There was no patience shown there. You are making assertions about God which are directly contradicted by your own holy book.