Are Christians Today Anti-Poor Unlike Jesus?

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ElCodeMonkey
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Are Christians Today Anti-Poor Unlike Jesus?

Post #1

Post by ElCodeMonkey »

I perceive that the vast majority of "right-wing" people are "Christian" and that all non-Christians I know are "left-wing" (though I presume some cross over, of course). The right-wing is known for hating wellfare for the poor and the left-wing the opposite. It seems the atheistic left-wing cares to help the poor while the Christian right-wing likes to demonize them as lazy and thus do nothing. Yet at the same time, it's the churches who tend to do soup kitchens and homeless shelters yet they're the same ones who seem to dislike the handouts and abhor the idea of giving them actual places to live if they don't work to earn it. Jesus never made anyone earn anything as far as I recall. So what's the deal these days? Do Christians hate the poor? Matthew, Mark, and Luke seem to show the poor as nearly the main reason Jesus came to teach and suddenly they get a back burner by most Christians simply calling them lazy. Am I off base here?
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Re: Are Christians Today Anti-Poor Unlike Jesus?

Post #2

Post by Elijah John »

[Replying to post 1 by ElCodeMonkey]

The particular Christians you allude to, those who advocate "tithing" do not seem to like the principle of secular taxation. And secular taxation supports the social safety net.

They claim the want "the churches to handle it all". As though they could. I think that is a dodge. There is no way even a network of "tithing churches" could cover all the legitimate expenses of people in need. Medical, food, etc.

The Christians you seem most familiar with seem to be Evangelicals. I can assure you, most Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox and mainline Protestants do not share such indifference for the impoverished, and those groups combined, constitute the vast majority of Christians.

Worldwide, Evangelicals are still vocal but distinct minority.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Re: Are Christians Today Anti-Poor Unlike Jesus?

Post #3

Post by ElCodeMonkey »

[Replying to Elijah John]

The logic isn't adding up for me. If I'm mostly familiar with and describing only Evangelicals which is a minor subgroup of Christianity (it's actually about 30-35% of Christians according to Wikipedia), then how do they seemingly constitute 50% of our nation's populace which is anti-poor or anti-taxation-for-the-poor (which you said yourself is merely a dodge)? If the Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and mainline Protestants care so much more and they make up the majority of Christians and a good 75% of our nation is "Christian", then shouldn't we have a pretty heavy left-wing to support taxing for the poor? Or do those mainline Christian denominations also "dodge" in which case they're also not particularly caring for the poor?
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Re: Are Christians Today Anti-Poor Unlike Jesus?

Post #4

Post by Elijah John »

ElCodeMonkey wrote: [Replying to Elijah John]

The logic isn't adding up for me. If I'm mostly familiar with and describing only Evangelicals which is a minor subgroup of Christianity (it's actually about 30-35% of Christians according to Wikipedia), then how do they seemingly constitute 50% of our nation's populace which is anti-poor or anti-taxation-for-the-poor (which you said yourself is merely a dodge)? If the Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and mainline Protestants care so much more and they make up the majority of Christians and a good 75% of our nation is "Christian", then shouldn't we have a pretty heavy left-wing to support taxing for the poor? Or do those mainline Christian denominations also "dodge" in which case they're also not particularly caring for the poor?
Yes, in the US Evangelicals are a large group. Worldwide? Not so much. Overall, in totality, Catholics, Orthodox and mainline Protestants outnumber Evangelicals and Fundamentalists.

I grew up Catholic, and NEVER heard the word "tithe" or a "tithe pitch" from the altar.

And I never hear Catholics complaining about the social safety net, and the taxes needed to sustain that saftey net, with the excpetion of some conservative politicians and talk show pundits. And even they seldom if ever say it's the responsibility of the Churches to handle it all. Even they acknowledge "govenment" has a significang role to play in helping those in need.

I do, by contrast, hear Evangelical preachers on TBN complaining about govenment taxation, indicating the govenrment should just step aside, greatly reduce or elimiinate taxation on the grounds that "helping the poor" is the Church's respnsibility, not Governemt. Forgive me for being skeptical, but the "Church" cannot handle it all, but that does not seem to concen congregants who applaud with enthusiasm to such calls. Forgive me again but I think they are more concerned with the lessening of their own personal tax burdens and accumulating personal "prosperity" than they are about truly helping those in need.

If they really cared about those in need, they would applaud efforts to allieviate poverty, no matter who, or what agency provided it. Government included. But they don't.

Their attitude seems to be, "cut my taxes, let the Church handle aide to the poor, and if it's not enough, too bad, Jesus said we would always have the poor with us".
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Post #5

Post by brianbbs67 »

The social safety net was the family and churches until the 1930s. People helped their own and churches and Hospitals did too. No tax needed. That is the whole problem of our "modern" society. Family has been destroyed on the altar of Government. Aborted you might say. So the people who know you and could help you the best are distanced from you by Government and now after a tax, the government cares? Surprise, surprise ...

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Post #6

Post by Elijah John »

[Replying to post 5 by brianbbs67]

It takes a combined effort to really help those in need. Churches, families, government aide,...combined. It's not an either/or.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Post #7

Post by briandc »

Perhaps the strong "let the poor die" attitude is rooted in free will (a basic tenant of fundamentalism). After all, they "have the will to save themselves, and they won't, so let them die." Also, that whole thing about poor = unbeliever. It's really that simple, I'd say. Even though it's way wrong. (There are many rich unbelievers!)

Free will is the root of pride, self-righteousness and judgmentalism, imo. (Unless one believes that ALL mankind will be saved, in which there is not "us-them" attitude regarding eternal destiny. )

In other words, the "self-made Christian" who's first savior is himself. Spiritual darwinism.


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ElCodeMonkey
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Post #8

Post by ElCodeMonkey »

brianbbs67 wrote: The social safety net was the family and churches until the 1930s. People helped their own and churches and Hospitals did too. No tax needed. That is the whole problem of our "modern" society. Family has been destroyed on the altar of Government. Aborted you might say. So the people who know you and could help you the best are distanced from you by Government and now after a tax, the government cares? Surprise, surprise ...
Your statements would indicate that poverty has increased and that families suffer more than ever. Oddly enough, this is not at all true. Poverty is steadily decreasing throughout the world. The government is pulling the weight while religion never succeeded. In what way has family been destroyed by government?
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Post #9

Post by brianbbs67 »

ElCodeMonkey wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote: The social safety net was the family and churches until the 1930s. People helped their own and churches and Hospitals did too. No tax needed. That is the whole problem of our "modern" society. Family has been destroyed on the altar of Government. Aborted you might say. So the people who know you and could help you the best are distanced from you by Government and now after a tax, the government cares? Surprise, surprise ...
Your statements would indicate that poverty has increased and that families suffer more than ever. Oddly enough, this is not at all true. Poverty is steadily decreasing throughout the world. The government is pulling the weight while religion never succeeded. In what way has family been destroyed by government?
Image
No , not at all. We are richer in money, but All these welfare things were handled by family and churches up to the creation of a welfare state. So, it worked for nearly 200 years and government intervened and it doesn't work now. Hmmm. "I'm from the Gov't, I'm here to help"

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Post #10

Post by ElCodeMonkey »

[Replying to post 9 by brianbbs67]

Well, then I guess I'll have to ask by what metric you are coming to this conclusion. The graph shows poverty which is a ratio based on livability, not simply dollars. So I stand by my conclusion that poverty has indeed decreased. Note that the OP is about poverty specifically and whether or not Christians have abandoned the poor. If you wish to discuss a different metric of family deterioration, that could be an interesting topic worth discussing as well (in a different thread).
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