Why Would God Care What We Believe?

[ElCodeMonkey]

Let's assume the typical Christian orthodox of Jesus dying for our sins is true and that we must believe in him to be saved. I don't care to prove that it's true or not in this thread--we''ll just assume it is--but rather WHY does God care what we believe? Why would God be so intent on ensuring we believe something rather than only being intent on ensuring what we physically do with our lives? I'm not looking for "it's both" or the like, I'm wondering why God cares about the former at all. Why would our thoughts even matter to God and not only our actions?

[Divine Insight]

As far as I'm concerned this is a major piece of what gives this religion away as being a man-made religion.

No God would care. Only men who want you to follow their dogma and religion would care. And I personally think this was the original idea in the beginning of the Old Testament where they command that the God is jealous and we shall have no other Gods before him.

In other words, our religion is the only religion and if you turn to any other religion supposedly God will hate you. This is basically a cult tactic.

And you're perfectly right, and real God wouldn't care what we believe. In fact, if there was an actual God who was concerned with whether or not people desire to behave morally the best test of that would be on atheists. People who don't believe in a God will reveal the true nature of their character. So any God who is concerned with people who have good moral character would be far more interested in how atheists behave. How religious people behave would be basically meaningless. Especially if they have been told that they will be condemned if they don't behave and given a reward of eternal life if they do behave. With those kinds of deterrents and incentives it would be impossible to know what their true character would even be like.

If you want to test someone's character it's best to have them believing in a purely secular godless world. That would be the only valid test. Then you can know how they will truly behave given the freedom to be who they truly are.

So the very idea that it would be important to believe in a God gives this religion away as clearly being the invention of men. A not very bright invention to boot.

[ttruscott]

Let's assume the typical Christian orthodox of Jesus dying for our sins is true and that we must believe in him to be saved. I don't care to prove that it's true or not in this thread--we''ll just assume it is--but rather WHY does God care what we believe? Why would God be so intent on ensuring we believe something rather than only being intent on ensuring what we physically do with our lives? I'm not looking for "it's both" or the like, I'm wondering why God cares about the former at all.

I suspect that you are conflating the English idea of 'believing by experience or proof' with the Bible word for faith, an unproven hope....Yes I know the two words are used interchangeably but in theology they must be kept separate. Without faith, we cannot please GOD. Faith is a hope that has intonations of trust and respect without any proof offered. Ordinary secular materialist belief does not.

Why would our thoughts even matter to God and not only our actions?

Because it is in our thoughts that we develop and hold our decisions about HIS claims to be our GOD, our hopes about our future happiness and how best to fulfill that happiness and hence our chosen emotional relationship with HIM. Thoughts and desire precede actions and give them birth so they are much more important than the act itself, hence the fact that lust is in fact adultery even without the act, Matt 5:27-28.

[Elijah John]

Let's assume the typical Christian orthodox of Jesus dying for our sins is true and that we must believe in him to be saved. I don't care to prove that it's true or not in this thread--we''ll just assume it is--but rather WHY does God care what we believe? Why would God be so intent on ensuring we believe something rather than only being intent on ensuring what we physically do with our lives? I'm not looking for "it's both" or the like, I'm wondering why God cares about the former at all. Why would our thoughts even matter to God and not only our actions?

If, for the sake of argument, Jesus did indeed die to "pay for" our sins, then how is that sacrifice appropriated for any given indidual?

To hold the position that it is by belief that Jesus did this for us creates the problem that Jesus atonement does not apply to those who don't believe this, or are unaware that forgiveness from God is because of Jesus martyrdom on the cross.

That would eliminate all of the Old Testament heroes of faith, including Abraham, Melchizidek, Noah, King David, etc, etc.

Because there is no real evidence that any of them "accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior".

Yet they all seemed to have exprienced favor and forgiveness from God, according the the Bible.

And didn't Jesus say that it is those who do the will of the Father who will enter the Kingdom of Heaven? And those who tread the strait and narrow?

Not those who merely cry "Lord Lord" or believe the "right" things. As Jesus brother James, says, "even the devils believe, and tremble".

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 4 by Elijah John]

I think you make a very good point. Christian theology is built on the idea that a person already believes in the original God who is out to condemn them if they fail to obey him. Therefore, if a person has already accepted that previous notion, then the idea that they must believe that Jesus died to pay for their sins make sense.

In other words, it would make sense that to obtain the benefit of this penal substitution you need to acknowledge and condone it on your behalf.

In fact, I think this is precisely how many Christians think. They have already been convinced of the existence of a judgemental God who is going to be passing judgement on, and they know that they have fallen short of being perfect, therefore having already accepted those premises, the acknowledgement of a penal substitute seems reasonable.

In fact, I have been saying for years now that the need for a savior makes no sense unless the person has already been convinced that someone is out to condemn them. Otherwise the whole idea of a savior makes no sense.

So Christians must FIRST believe that Yahweh is out to condemn them before it even makes any sense to consider Christ as their savior.

[ElCodeMonkey]

[Replying to post 3 by ttruscott]

I'm not sure why you think I'm conflating anything when I've merely asked a question rather than making a statement. Why does God care what we think? Your response indicated that thought precedes action and that's why it matters, but this would indicate that it is action that matters rather than thought itself. It matters only in what actions it produces.

You also brought up an emotional attachment which could make sense. God wants us to emotionally love him just like I want my wife to emotionally love me. It's not the actions of making breakfast or cleaning the house that I want per se, but her love for me that I am after. Her love might yield those actions but I care for her emotion toward me. Is this an adequate comparison to why you believe God cares what we think? He wants our emotional investment in him?

[Divine Insight]

Why does God care what we think?

The problem here is that you aren't making clear what you mean by "God".

If you're talking about the Biblical God then it's clear why he cares what we think. He's a self-confessed jealous God. So that's why he cares what we think.

Why is God jealous?

That's a question we aren't supposed to ask. God is allowed to be whatever he wants to be and we're just stuck with having to live with it whether we like it or not. Asking why God is the way he is, is itself a question that can only be put to the God himself. And if his answer is that it's none of your business, or that you simply wouldn't comprehend the answer even if he told you, then you have to live with that answer whether you like it not.

That's the way it works.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by ElCodeMonkey]

Because He made us. God made us, and he knows we need connections to be truly happy, one of the most fundamental is with him. Every loving parent wants to know if his child is happy. (To this day, God love her, my mother still asks me if I'm eating, she wants to know if I'm looking after myself ergo if I'm in a good place mentally, emotionally and physically, that's what love does!). God cares what we think because if our thoughts are negative it's an indication we are unhappy ( people don't commit suicide because they have been having happy thoughts), he cares what we believe because believing falsehoods is harmful to us, and he cares what we do, because wrong actions harm ourselves and others.


NOTE I don't presume to speak for God what I post is based on what I believe God has revealed to us in scripture.

JW

[Matthew S Islam]

I'm not looking for "it's both" or the like, I'm wondering why God cares about the former at all. Why would our thoughts even matter to God and not only our actions?

It's quite simple. Our religious beliefs matter because they distinguish truth from falsehood; guidance from misguidance; sincerity from insincerity, etc. God has favoured the children of Adam(pbuh) above all other Earthly-beings with 'free will', spirituality and rationality. It is through these blessed tools and God's Guidance that we engage in the most fundamental of all actions--affirming truth and rejecting falsehood.

What good are the 'actions' of an individual who preferred his race/tribe, greedy desires and biases, over authentic revelation from God?

[Divine Insight]

What good are the 'actions' of an individual who preferred his race/tribe, greedy desires and biases, over authentic revelation from God?

Why propose such an obviously false dichotomy if the ultimate goal is truth?

No human who has ever lived on planet earth has ever been able to authenticate any supposed revelation from any God. In fact, those who have made such claims have been shown to have been sorely mistaken. What they thought was truth turned out to be demonstrably false.

In fact, almost all religious revelations and proclamations have been demonstrated to be false. The few that have just happened to have turned out to be true do not exceed what should be expected by dumb luck guessing.

So there is no authentic revelation from any God that anyone can point to. Even the most devout theists are in grave disagreement with each other on the things they claim to be revealed truths from their God.

So there is no such thing as authentic revelation from any God.

And the only alternative to that is not greedy desires and biases. So you got that wrong as well. So clearly there''s no authentic revelation in your proposal. You've already created a false dichotomy that is clearly false so it clearly cannot be due to authentic revelation from any god.