What is "spirit"?

[bernee51]

When asked to define spirit (and spirituality) many belief systems leave this vague and ill-defined.

But spirit, if it exists, has to be something. Take the difference between a walking, talking human being, and a pile of carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen and oxygen. Spirit could be defined as the difference between a living human being, and a moment later a dead human being.

What includes those two criteria? One is structure. The structure of any human being. The structure of each molecule in the human body. The location of each molecule. But there is more than that, otherwise what accounts for the difference between a living human being one moment, and a dead human being a moment later.

The processes are also important. In addition to the structure, the processes of a working human metabolism which is called life. So spirit is the structure and processes.

This structure and process extends to more that just humans - it is present in all the living and non living. It is also inherent in the way we live in society. Inter-personal relationships have structure and process. A local community has structure and process. As does a country.

We all contribute to spirit...how we do that is 'spirituality'.

What then is 'spirit'?

Is it more than described above?

[Metatron]

When asked to define spirit (and spirituality) many belief systems leave this vague and ill-defined.

But spirit, if it exists, has to be something. Take the difference between a walking, talking human being, and a pile of carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen and oxygen. Spirit could be defined as the difference between a living human being, and a moment later a dead human being.

What includes those two criteria? One is structure. The structure of any human being. The structure of each molecule in the human body. The location of each molecule. But there is more than that, otherwise what accounts for the difference between a living human being one moment, and a dead human being a moment later.

The processes are also important. In addition to the structure, the processes of a working human metabolism which is called life. So spirit is the structure and processes.

This structure and process extends to more that just humans - it is present in all the living and non living. It is also inherent in the way we live in society. Inter-personal relationships have structure and process. A local community has structure and process. As does a country.

We all contribute to spirit...how we do that is 'spirituality'.

What then is 'spirit'?

Is it more than described above?

Well, I think your definition of spirit as structure and process is too broad to have much meaning. Basically, everything that is not in a pure state of entropy (whatever that would be) has structure and process. Even the dead body referenced above retains some types of structure and process, i.e. for example, the strong and weak nuclear forces do not simply disappear upon death, the body continues to be a held together in a structure by forces (a type of process) until affected by other structures and processes (weathering, bacteria, etc.)

In theological terms, spirit is usually associated with the soul. In non-theological terms, the closest equivalent to soul that I can come up with is mind or consciousness. In the example of live vs. dead person, the structure and processes that have ceased are basically biological (heart stops, organs shutdown, etc.) and mind/consciousness. My opinion is that the essentially mechanical and chemical processes of biology that keep the body operating have little to do with most concepts of spirit. Therefore, the closest thing that I can find to spirit without resorting to theology or mysticism would be whatever makes up mind or consciousness. Whether mind is a complex interaction of chemical and electrical states or something more is above my pay grade to answer.

[bernee51]

Well, I think your definition of spirit as structure and process is too broad to have much meaning. Basically, everything that is not in a pure state of entropy (whatever that would be) has structure and process. Even the dead body referenced above retains some types of structure and process, i.e. for example, the strong and weak nuclear forces do not simply disappear upon death, the body continues to be a held together in a structure by forces (a type of process) until affected by other structures and processes (weathering, bacteria, etc.)

I agree with this...absolutely everything has structure and process.

In theological terms, spirit is usually associated with the soul.

Incorrectly so I believe. As I se it, soul entails all thought, intellect, emotions, memories, hopes, dreams, aspirations, suffering, loves, joys, hates, sorrows, regrets, creativity, spite, knowledge, learning, understanding, empathy, sympathy, pity, greed, lust, desire, initiative, and instinct of each and every human. (and every organism which has mental faculty).

A soul is an emergent phenomena of a being’s mental faculty. And mental faculty is an emergent phenomena of the brain’s neural network. Every living organism with a neural network has some degree of a soul. From ringworms to humans.

In non-theological terms, the closest equivalent to soul that I can come up with is mind or consciousness.

Are mind and consciousness the same thing? Or is mind dependent of the existence of consciousness to exist itself?

In the example of live vs. dead person, the structure and processes that have ceased are basically biological (heart stops, organs shutdown, etc.) and mind/consciousness. My opinion is that the essentially mechanical and chemical processes of biology that keep the body operating have little to do with most concepts of spirit.

So we have the geosphere (the nuts and bolts of existence), the biosphere (the running of the motor of existence), the nooshere (which makes up the mental faculty of said existence).

But what animates it?

[QED]

Perhaps "Spirit" is an ancient term for everything that we now understand to be Information. I doubt if our modern appreciation of information would have been realised in the past when philosophers and theologians were considering matters. Their properties look very similar to me at any rate. For example Information/Spirit can be "kept alive" by transferring or copying information from one structure to another. It follows that whenever you go looking for Spirit you will end up looking at something with structure that is capable of expressing information. Do we know of anything that contradicts this idea?

[QED]

But what animates it?

That, I supose, would be the action of finite state machines producing states in a finite number of dimensions in discrete time.

[bernee51]

But what animates it?

That, I supose, would be the action of finite state machines producing states in a finite number of dimensions in discrete time.

well that saved me a lot of work.

[Cathar1950]

bernee51

When asked to define spirit (and spirituality) many belief systems leave this vague and ill-defined.

Maybe that is what “spirit” is; what ever is vague and ill defined. Maybe spirit is what is when it is not something, like a concept.

As I se it, soul entails all thought, intellect, emotions, memories, hopes, dreams, aspirations, suffering, loves, joys, hates, sorrows, regrets, creativity, spite, knowledge, learning, understanding, empathy, sympathy, pity, greed, lust, desire, initiative, and instinct of each and every human…
A soul is an emergent phenomena of a being’s mental faculty. And mental faculty is an emergent phenomena of the brain’s neural network. Every living organism with a neural network has some degree of a soul.

I tend to agree. At least I think that is what we are talking about when we look at the soul.

Are mind and consciousness the same thing? Or is mind dependent of the existence of consciousness to exist itself?

There does seem to be some overlap.
I think we started a thread a while back about spirit. It sure is a hard thing to pin down and mean anything we could all agree with.

[OccamsRazor]

This is a good question concerning the spirit and is one that I have always grappled with. A Hindu friend once asked me "do you even not believe in the spirit world?" To which I was dumbfounded as I could not even accurately define such a thing.

Which regard to this:

spirit is usually associated with the soul

This leads me to the question, what is the association? Are the two entities synonymous or is one a subset of the other?

[OccamsRazor]

Are mind and consciousness the same thing? Or is mind dependent of the existence of consciousness to exist itself?

This is, of course, dualism. Harvey has a long running thread going on this question.

[bernee51]

spirit is usually associated with the soul

This leads me to the question, what is the association? Are the two entities synonymous or is one a subset of the other?

Based on my definition of the soul as quoted above I would say that the soul is the mechanism by which the mind communicates with spirit. i.e. they are two different concepts. The method by which the soul communicates could be known as spirituality.

BTW the concept of the soul (as above) is not the same 'immortal soul' as described by some religions. The soul I have described dies when the body dies. What that particular soul, however, has added (or taken) from spirit lives on.