Atheism is pantheism

[EarthScienceguy]

Since atheist believe that "nature found a way" (to put it in Jurassic Park terms) to produce life against all odds. Belief that nature created life is pantheism. So, doesn't that make all atheist pantheist?

[William]

[Replying to post 1 by EarthScienceguy]

Since atheist believe that "nature found a way" (to put it in Jurassic Park terms) to produce life against all odds. Belief that nature created life is pantheism. So, doesn't that make all atheist pantheist?

pantheism
/ˈpanθi�ɪz(ə)m/

noun
1.
a doctrine which identifies God with the universe, or regards the universe as a manifestation of God.
2.
the worship or tolerance of many gods.

Atheists believe that no GODs exist - so all atheists are non-Pantheists.

"Pantheism is the belief that reality is identical with divinity, or that all-things compose an all-encompassing, immanent god." ~ Wikipedia

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 2 by William]

noun
1.
a doctrine which identifies God with the universe, or regards the universe as a manifestation of God.
2.
the worship or tolerance of many gods.

Atheists believe that no GODs exist - so all atheists are non-Pantheists.

I am aware of the what the montra is. But I have been told many times on this site that science has not developed enough yet to explain the origins of life and the universe.

Science has not advanced to a point where it can explain the origin of life or the universe. This is a statement of faith that it will happen. That nature did find a way to produce the universe and life.

Atheist have to have faith that science will discover how life and the universe. It is already understood that it would be against all odds for life and the universe to exist. So they have to believe that nature preformed a miracle. (multiple events occured against all probability) That would make them believe that nature is some sort of miracle worker. IE a god.

[Guy Threepwood]

[Replying to post 2 by William]

noun
1.
a doctrine which identifies God with the universe, or regards the universe as a manifestation of God.
2.
the worship or tolerance of many gods.

Atheists believe that no GODs exist - so all atheists are non-Pantheists.

I am aware of the what the montra is. But I have been told many times on this site that science has not developed enough yet to explain the origins of life and the universe.

Science has not advanced to a point where it can explain the origin of life or the universe. This is a statement of faith that it will happen. That nature did find a way to produce the universe and life.

Atheist have to have faith that science will discover how life and the universe. It is already understood that it would be against all odds for life and the universe to exist. So they have to believe that nature preformed a miracle. (multiple events occured against all probability) That would make them believe that nature is some sort of miracle worker. IE a god.

Semantics aside I would agree,

In practice the latter of these two options is more common in my experience

1.
a doctrine which identifies God with the universe,
or
regards the universe as a manifestation of God.

i.e. defines God as the universe/ nature,

in other words, another name for naturalism, for most intents and purposes.

Einstein, considered a pantheist by many : "the word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses"

which sounds closer to not just atheism, but anti-theism?

[wiploc]

Since atheist believe that "nature found a way" (to put it in Jurassic Park terms) to produce life against all odds.

It may be possible that some atheist believes this, but most of us don't. In any case, it is no part of the concept of atheism, which consists entirely of not having a belief in gods.

Belief that nature created life is pantheism.

Wow, is that ever wrong.

I can grant that pantheists (many of them?) believe that nature created life. But to claim that that belief is pantheism? That's an absurd leap.

It would be no more abusive of meaning to say, "God is love, so I want to make god to you."

So, doesn't that make all atheist pantheist?

No, that's absurd. Pantheists believe in gods; atheists don't.

[wiploc]

Science has not advanced to a point where it can explain the origin of life or the universe. This is a statement of faith that it will happen.

It is a fact that I have not grown to a point where I can touch the moon. You think that fact implies a faith that I will touch the moon? That's absurd, patently false.

Atheist have to have faith that science will discover how life and the universe.

We don't have to have that faith, and most of us do not have that faith.

If you argued that we logically should have such a faith, based on our other positions, we would refute you. But, as it is, you are claiming that we do have such a faith. That is just a falsehood, a misrepresentation.

Stop misrepresenting us.

It is already understood that it would be against all odds for life and the universe to exist.

I don't understand that. And I've never heard cogent advocacy for that belief.

If you want to argue that we should believe that, feel free, but don't pretend that we already agree with you.

So they have to believe that nature preformed a miracle.

Stop attributing absurd beliefs to atheists. If you want to attribute absurd beliefs to yourself, we are prepared to believe you. But you will never convince us that we believe the things we don't.

We already know what we believe, so you cannot deceive us on that point. It is silly for you to try.

(multiple events occured against all probability) That would make them believe that nature is some sort of miracle worker. IE a god.

Words have meaning. You can never persuade any reasonable person that atheists believe in gods. An atheist is, by definition, someone who does not believe in gods.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 5 by wiploc]

It may be possible that some atheist believes this, but most of us don't. In any case, it is no part of the concept of atheism, which consists entirely of not having a belief in gods.

Are you trying to say that atheist do not ask the question "who am I" and "where did I come from."

If you do not believe that God made the universe and life, then by default you have to believe that nature made everything. Many people do not understand their own religion. But saying you are an atheist means you have to believe that nature produced a miracle in creating this universe.

That would make all atheist pantheist.

[Tcg]

Atheist have to have faith that science will discover how life and the universe.

No, we don't.

It is already understood that it would be against all odds for life and the universe to exist.

No, it isn't. The odds for it are in fact 100%.

So they have to believe that nature preformed a miracle. (multiple events occured against all probability) That would make them believe that nature is some sort of miracle worker. IE a god.

No, we don't.



Tcg

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 6 by wiploc]

It is a fact that I have not grown to a point where I can touch the moon. You think that fact implies a faith that I will touch the moon? That's absurd, patently false.

What in the world are you trying to say? Your statement makes no sense whatsoever.

[William]

[Replying to post 3 by EarthScienceguy]

Well regardless of what you think atheism is - I was answering the OPQ and the answer is "No".