GOD v. HUMANISM: a conundrum?

[2Dbunk]

Early on, wannabe theists invented God(s) to explain all of nature and the good life we experience. Then they (Christians) turn around, disdaining that nature as being too worldly, loving and worshipping Jesus instead of living (like Jesus needs our love -- is he that needy?). What kind of a life is that?


Give that another look: Doing good works takes a back seat to having faith in Jesus -- only God can do good, not necessarily man (though good works are encouraged).

If one has absolute faith in Jesus, He forgives all of one's sins regardless of how many sins have been racked up in that lifetime [except apostasy]. I can see why God and his followers have a problem with good works alone [HUMANISTS]-- they steal His thunder!


What kind of an ethic is that? This jealous and petulant god is hardly all that good!

[Divine Insight]

(like Jesus needs our love -- is he that needy?)

Exactly. What kind of a supposedly omnipotent God is hard-up for love, devotion, and obedience from mere little humans?

That would indeed be an extremely petty God to be sure. A God who would have serious problems. As far as I can see this God was actually modeled after the Greek Gods that were easily angered and required constant attention and appeasement.

These theological ideas are archaic to say the least. They are outright insulting to the human intellect IMHO. The only mystery surrounding these ancient religions that I can see is the mystery of why any modern day humans still believe there could be anything to them.

Seriously.

In fact many atheists have far superior ideas on concepts of morality, etc. So clearly humans have superior moral values than these ancient mythological Gods. Gods that are anxious to turn you into a pillar of salt if you don't do exactly as they say, or cast you into an eternal state of damnation for merely not believing that any God could be that ignorant and cruel.

I've met atheists who totally reject the idea of condemning anyone to eternal damnation. How is it that atheists can be morally superior to Jesus?

Something isn't adding up.

[2Dbunk]

[Replying to post 2 by Divine Insight]

Why is it that theists insist on pestering their unknowable, hardly proven deity with utmost kowtowing submissiveness? Why is it that theists look forward to churchy things (continual praying, singing hymns, eating wafers, studying archaic dictates, and washing feet) forever, through eternity? Why is it that they carp about our wonderful life as being too worldly and full of evil?


IMO, if I were a God, I would be embarrassed to have worshippers gushing over me so much (maybe a little, but forever --ysssh. I would want them to pay less attention to me and get out there and help their fellow men and women who actually need help.

IMO I think that theists are ungrateful for the life they have been awarded, winning the lottery of life against extraordinary odds and expecting even more of the same for all eternity. To me that is pure and simple gluttony of the exponential kind.

What say you theists about my critique of the religious condition. Can you see my point? Rebuttals invited!

[Mithrae]

IMO I think that theists are ungrateful for the life they have been awarded, winning the lottery of life against extraordinary odds and expecting even more of the same for all eternity. To me that is pure and simple gluttony of the exponential kind.

What say you theists about my critique of the religious condition. Can you see my point? Rebuttals invited!

You seem to be discussing Christians, rather than theists or religious people generally. Your comments seem to be just as valid as the critique by some theists who insist that atheists debase humanity as mere apes and necessarily lack a sound moral compass. A rather shallow caricature at best, in other words.

[2Dbunk]

[Replying to post 4 by Mithrae]

Correct, you are. "Christian" should precede everywhere I mention theists. To theists of other cultures, I apologize.

[Mithrae]

[Replying to post 5 by 2Dbunk]

But while there are undoubtedly some Christians (and some Muslims, Jews, Hindus etc.) who share some similarities with what you've described, it would still be a caricature even of them. Most Christians appreciate life and nature and encourage good actions, at least as much as anyone else. If there were some objective, statistically significant evidence to suggest that their version of religion correlated with a lesser (or greater) appreciation of those things compared against some version of secularism, that would certainly be worth looking into.

[2Dbunk]

[Replying to post 6 by Mithrae]

Shame on me! I would have been more correct to say that the fundamentalist theists of the Abrahamic religions are guilty of ungratefulness and disdain for this wonderful life.

I promise to be more careful in the future. I have many Christian friends but only a few that say I'm going to hell.

Thanks for helping me clean up my act!

[Wootah]

How is celebrating the creator not also a celebration of the creation?

I still don't get your point maybe.

[2Dbunk]

[Replying to post 8 by Wootah]

how is celebrating the creator not also a celebration of the creation?

You call suicide bombing of innocent pedestrians and worshippers "celebration of the creation?" Sure, there are only a few instances, but look how they have struck fear in all of us (travel restrictions, metal detectors everywhere, less tall skyscrapers, churches, synagogues and mosques). Not all fundamentalists are bent to that end, but they rarely condemn such actions.

And, yes, there are many theists who appreciate life (they are called secularists, or trend that way). But the fundamentalists have pretty much written them off.

Non-believers for the most part appreciate each day for its essence and potential. True, we are worldly but not ready to take up a sword or fly a plane into a building for some delusional cause. Life is too precious -- that's all there is!

[Wootah]

[Replying to 2Dbunk]

You just had a conversation with Mithrae to work out if you are talking about theists or Christians. Now you talk about suicide bombers.

I'm debating for Christianity not theism. It's your thread let me know.