Paul's mental health status.

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polonius
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Paul's mental health status.

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Post by polonius »

The Credibility of Paul

Did Paul have a mental health problem. He certainly contradicts himself and scripture

Paul Galatians chapter 1, 12 " I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ."


Is any reader also having "revelations" like Paul did about 500 people seeing the risen Christ which even the Gospel writers don't report ( Paul didn't join the group until about three years later).

“The book of Hebrews quotes extensively from the Old Testament. Paul, as a Pharisee, would have been familiar with the Scripture in its original Hebrew language. In other letters, Paul either quotes the Masoretic Text (the original Hebrew) or paraphrases it.

However, all of the quotes in this epistle are taken out of the Septuagint (the Greek Old Testament), which is inconsistent with Paul's usage. Finally, Paul was an apostle who claimed to receive his revelations directly from the Lord Jesus (1 Corinthians 11:23; Galatians 1:12). The writer of Hebrews specifically says that he was taught by an apostle (Hebrews 2:3).�


I have a friend that fell off his bicycle and hit his head on the way to Damascus (in Oregon).

He says he's been communicating directly with God ever since.

Should we believe what he says? ;)

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Re: Paul's mental health status.

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Post by myth-one.com »


polonius wrote:Did Paul have a mental health problem.
Paul was originally a strong, powerful, persuasive, decisive, energetic persecutor of Christians. Incredibly, when God chose him to spread the gospel to the Gentiles, He gave Paul a "thorn in the flesh":
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. (II Corinthians 12:7)

This thorn in the flesh could indicate pain caused by some physical problem. However, it may also indicate pain caused by some psychological problem. In Galatians, Paul describes his infirmity as a temptation:
And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. (Galatians 4:14)

Consider the following verse written by Paul:
For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that I do. (Romans 7:15)
Compare that verse with the definition of "compulsion" as used in psychology:

Compulsion: a strong usually irresistible impulse to perform an act that is contrary to the will of the subject.

Did Paul have a compulsion?

Someone suffering from a compulsive behavior will recognize themselves in Romans 7:15 as listed above. That is, what they desire to do (stop the compulsive behavior) they do not. What they do not desire to do (the compulsive behavior) they do. Most, if not all, compulsives desire to stop. Paul may have been an alcoholic, a womanizer, or something more serious, if indeed he suffered from some compulsion. Whether compulsive behavior or a physical condition, Paul prayed for God to remove it:
For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. (II Corinthians 12:8)
Describing his affliction as a "thing" or "it" further indicates Paul may have had a psychological problem. Physical ailments are generally accompanied by obvious symptoms such as bleeding, physical pain, rashes, fever, vomiting, disfigurement, etc. These are obvious conditions which we can see. Mental problems are difficult to comprehend since we cannot "see" them. Therefore, we describe these problems as abnormalities, things, weird, crazy, etc.

If Paul did indeed have a compulsion, then he made a great discovery which is today part of all twelve step rehabilitation programs. That discovery was that he was not sufficiently powerful to stop the behavior on his own. He needed help from a higher authority! Therefore, he prayed to God three times asking that it be removed from him:
For this thing I besought the Lord thrice... (II Corinthians 12:8)

Paul believed that there was no temptation, no matter how strong, that God did not also provide an escape from that temptation:
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. (I Corinthians 10:13)

Regardless of what Paul's thorn in the flesh was, God refused to remove it. Therefore, Paul learned to take pleasure in his infirmities:
For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. (II Corinthians 12:8-10)
Paul's escape from his "temptation" was the realization that his weakness made him a stronger witness for Jesus. Thus Paul came to actually take pleasure in his infirmities.

He realized that God made him weak so that others could see what God could accomplish through such a weak person! Regardless of how weak due to physical or mental problems, we are all here for a reason. Never, ever believe you are too weak to fulfill your mission! The weaker you are, the more spectacular your accomplishment will be for God's glory. How did other Christians of his day react to Paul's temptation?
Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. (Galatians 4:13-14)

Would today's congregations act accordingly?
Polonius wrote:Should we believe what he says?
We should believe what he said was inspired by God.

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Post #3

Post by MosesY »

Paul was most likely bipolar. His writings fit the bipolar pattern. About 7 percent of people currently are bipolar. Many great writers such as Jack London were bipolar. Bipolar people are depressed most of the time and their best work is done out of that depression. Many bipolar people feel that their best work is done during mania but during that period it is mostly gibberish that can't be interpreted at this point in history.

I believe Paul when he says he received revelation from Jesus Christ. It is a simple choice; you either believe it or you don't.

I believe the Bible is God's word and can be used to measure all other revelation. It is very simple to examine what someone says is revelation from God, compare it to what the Bible says and if it confirms the Bible then it is from God. If it disagrees with the Bible it is not from God. Very simple.

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Post #4

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 3 by MosesY]


QUESTION Was the Apostle Paul bi-polar?

Paul was mighty productive to be bipolar.
  • In my experience (and I'm not a healthcare professional) bipolar individuals without medication, tend to go through extended periods of time in deep depression where they have great difficulty motivating themselves and even may entertain suicidal thoughts, during which time they and are more or less unproductive. Paul was consistently productive and never expressed any leaning to suicide or inertia.

    I suppose One can read anything they like into isolated passages but I cannot see any evidence of depression or mania in the narratives of Paul. He was simply extraordinarily honest about his anxieties and personal struggles, something if we were as honest as he was, we all experience to a greater or lesser degree.

JW



Did Jesus commit suicide?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 162#357162
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Post #5

Post by Tcg »

JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 3 by MosesY]


QUESTION Was the Apostle Paul bi-polar?

Paul was mighty productive to be bipolar.

In my experience (and I'm not a healthcare professional) bipolar individuals without medication, tend to go through extended periods of time in deep depression where they have great difficulty motivating themselves and even may entertain suicidal thoughts, during which time they and are more or less unproductive. Paul was consistently productive and never expressed any leaning to suicide or inertia.

Many bipolar people are highly productive. We know so little about Paul, there is no possible way to back up a claim that he was "consistently productive" or that he "never expressed any leaning to suicide." He may have never written about suicidal ideation in any of the writings attributed to him, that doesn't support your universal claim that he never expressed such a leaning.



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Post #6

Post by myth-one.com »

Tcg wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 3 by MosesY]


QUESTION Was the Apostle Paul bi-polar?

Paul was mighty productive to be bipolar.

In my experience (and I'm not a healthcare professional) bipolar individuals without medication, tend to go through extended periods of time in deep depression where they have great difficulty motivating themselves and even may entertain suicidal thoughts, during which time they and are more or less unproductive. Paul was consistently productive and never expressed any leaning to suicide or inertia.

Many bipolar people are highly productive. We know so little about Paul, there is no possible way to back up a claim that he was "consistently productive" or that he "never expressed any leaning to suicide." He may have never written about suicidal ideation in any of the writings attributed to him, that doesn't support your universal claim that he never expressed such a leaning.



Tcg
Hers's an interesting quote from Paul you might consider:
For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labor: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you. (Philippians 1:21-24)
Suicidal?

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Post #7

Post by Tcg »

myth-one.com wrote:
Hers's an interesting quote from Paul you might consider:
For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labor: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you. (Philippians 1:21-24)
Suicidal?

What do you interpret that phrase, "having a desire to depart?" He clearly is expressing a desire to die. He even states that death would be, "far better" and that, "to die is gain." This isn't clear evidence that he was suicidal, but it certainly can't be used as evidence that he wasn't.

He is extoling the virtues of death!



Tcg

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Post by ttruscott »

Riiiiight...again with the gaslighting. Make everyone afraid to believe! If they think they communicate with God they are bipolar...mere grooming of people to resist the Holy Spirit.
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Post #9

Post by myth-one.com »


Tcg wrote:
myth-one.com wrote:
Hers's an interesting quote from Paul you might consider:
For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labor: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you. (Philippians 1:21-24)
Suicidal?

What do you interpret that phrase, "having a desire to depart?" He clearly is expressing a desire to die. He even states that death would be, "far better" and that, "to die is gain." This isn't clear evidence that he was suicidal, but it certainly can't be used as evidence that he wasn't.

He is extoling the virtues of death!

Tcg
It certainly seems so.

He believes it better to remain alive only to be of service to the other Christians.

====================================================================

Paul is now "resting" in his grave, awaiting resurrection to everlasting spiritual life at the Second Coming.

He has no consciousness of anything as the dead know nothing:
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing... (Ecclesiastes 9:5)
Thus the very next thing he will be aware of after his death will be his resurrection at the Second Coming.

That is, it will seem to occur immediately to him!

Thus, as soon as he dies, he will be with Jesus.

It's a "relativity" Einstein thing.

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Post #10

Post by MosesY »

ttruscott wrote: Riiiiight...again with the gaslighting. Make everyone afraid to believe! If they think they communicate with God they are bipolar...mere grooming of people to resist the Holy Spirit.
In my opinion this statement is a little ridiculous. What's wrong with being bipolar? I am bipolar. I was born that way, I can't help it.

The diagnois bipolar fits a wide spectrum of symptoms. Yes some are unproductive during depression but a lot are very productive. Many of our famous authors were bipolar, Hemingway is one obvious one. He was a prolific author.

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