None good but God

[Wootah]

Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Question: If there are none good but God how can a not good being pay for my sins?

[Wootah]

[Replying to tam in post #180]

OK. The Bible is rational. God is rational. The logos is rational.

Let's try again. Since I think we both agree you understand the concept of debt.

If I attempt to hit a person what is the penalty?
If I attempt to hit a baby what is the penalty?
If I attempt to hit a police officer what is the penality?
If I attempt to hit a judge what is the penalty?
If I attempt to hit the president or prime minister what is the penalty?

Rationally, the context of the penalty changes.

If you can't pay for the crime you do the time.

Now if you rationally understand that, what is the penalty for sins against God? How are you paying for them? Rationally speaking.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #180]

OK. The Bible is rational. God is rational. The logos is rational.

Let's try again. Since I think we both agree you understand the concept of debt.

If I attempt to hit a person what is the penalty?
If I attempt to hit a baby what is the penalty?
If I attempt to hit a police officer what is the penality?
If I attempt to hit a judge what is the penalty?
If I attempt to hit the president or prime minister what is the penalty?

Rationally, the context of the penalty changes.

If you can't pay for the crime you do the time.

Now if you rationally understand that, what is the penalty for sins against God?

You tell me.

I have already posted how the wage of sin - period - is death. Romans 6:23

Please show me where there is a different wage, depending upon who the sin is against. Perhaps also give me a couple of examples of something that is a sin against God.

How are you paying for them? Rationally speaking.

I am not.

Christ is the One who paid for my sins (and not just mine of course.)


Peace again to you.

[Wootah]

[Replying to tam in post #182]

First show me you understand my point then we can discuss the Bible.

Romans 6:23 - has no relation to the topic. The topic is not 'that we are free in Christ', we are, but how is that possible? How can, for you, a not God pay for sins against God?

Truly no man can ransom another, or give to God the price of his life, 8 for the ransom of their life is costly and can never suffice, 9 that he should live on for ever and never see the pit. … 15 But God will ransom my soul from the power of Sheol, for he will receive me. (Psalm 49:7–9, 15, ESVUK)

edit: I got that bible link from here: https://www.redemptionofhumanity.org/on ... -our-sins/

A good read.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #182]

First show me you understand my point then we can discuss the Bible.

Wootah, I do not understand your point or how it relates to Christ, to God, to the wage (penalty) for sin. This is why I am asking questions. I do not know how you arrived at your conclusion.

You asked me what the penalty is for sins against God.

You are the one claiming that Christ cannot pay for these sins (unless He is God Himself), so you're going to need to answer that question, yourself.

You... tell... me.

I also asked your for some kind of example of what you mean when you say, sin against God.

I must remain in my Lord and in His word. If you have His words on this matter, post them. But please don't expect me to follow yours (or others).

Romans 6:23 - has no relation to the topic. The topic is not 'that we are free in Christ', we are, but how is that possible? How can, for you, a not God pay for sins against God?

The topic is about sin, the penalty for sin, and who can pay that penalty. How can you say Romans 6:23 has no relation to the topic. Romans 6:23 states that the wage of sin is death. That IS the topic.

Truly no man can ransom another, or give to God the price of his life, 8 for the ransom of their life is costly and can never suffice, 9 that he should live on for ever and never see the pit. … 15 But God will ransom my soul from the power of Sheol, for he will receive me. (Psalm 49:7–9, 15, ESVUK)

Yes, of course we cannot pay for ours (or others') lives. We were all already sold to Death; we cannot purchase ourselves back; we cannot redeem ourselves... we need someone to redeem us, to purchase us back. Christ is that person. He - the LIFE - CAN pay for us. And He did. He is not a mere man, Wootah. He is the Son of God, the (Tree of) Life, the Chosen and Holy One of God, the Spirit, and the Heir of God.

Peace again to you.

[Wootah]

[Replying to tam in post #184]

You understand debt. Tick.
You agree no one should be underpaid. Tick.

Do you understand how the punishment changes depending on who you do it to?

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #184]

You understand debt. Tick.
You agree no one should be underpaid. Tick.

I also understand that someone can choose to forgive a debt.

What I do not understand is how you are using the above to state that Christ cannot have paid for our sins unless He is God Himself.

Do you understand how the punishment changes depending on who you do it to?

No. I am not a lawyer, so I could be wrong, but it would seem to me that the crime must change in order for the punishment to change (though in different countries this might vary and penalties have a range, for example, minimum and maximum fines and sentences.) This website describes different kinds of assault, and assaulting a peace or police officer has its own category:

https://www.yyccriminaldefence.ca/diffe ... es-canada/


REGARDLESS... these are all laws and penalties that men have come up with.


The wage of sin (all sin) is DEATH. There are not varying degrees of death. The wage of sin itself is death.



Peace again to you.

[Wootah]

[Replying to tam in post #186]
You understand debt. Tick.
You agree no one should be underpaid. Tick.

I also understand that someone can choose to forgive a debt.

^ Is that rational?

Also, if God forgives there is no justice. Imagine someone murders your family and a judge says I forgive them <- that is not justice. That is an evil judge.

What I do not understand is how you are using the above to state that Christ cannot have paid for our sins unless He is God Himself.

Anything less is unjust.

Do you understand how the punishment changes depending on who you do it to?

No. I am not a lawyer, so I could be wrong, but it would seem to me that the crime must change in order for the punishment to change (though in different countries this might vary and penalties have a range, for example, minimum and maximum fines and sentences.) This website describes different kinds of assault, and assaulting a peace or police officer has its own category:

https://www.yyccriminaldefence.ca/diffe ... es-canada/


REGARDLESS... these are all laws and penalties that men have come up with.

I am not a lawyer either but you can understand in general my point. Right?
If you break something in a shop, you pay what the item costs and different items cost more or less?

The wage of sin (all sin) is DEATH. There are not varying degrees of death. The wage of sin itself is death.

Isn't interesting that the punishment is death for all sin? How is that just? Imagine a judge senting a robber to death, a liar to death, a fraudster for death, the person not paying their tax correctly to death, all our petty sins ... death? It only makes sense for the punishment to be so high if the smallest sin is against God.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #186]
You understand debt. Tick.
You agree no one should be underpaid. Tick.

I also understand that someone can choose to forgive a debt.

^ Is that rational?

Does that matter? Is it not their right to forgive a debt if they wish? Perhaps they love the person who owes them a debt. Perhaps they wish to be merciful. Perhaps someone once forgave them a debt and they wish to do the same for someone else.

Also, if God forgives there is no justice. Imagine someone murders your family and a judge says I forgive them <- that is not justice. That is an evil judge.

So what is your point, that God should not forgive anyone?

What I do not understand is how you are using the above to state that Christ cannot have paid for our sins unless He is God Himself.

Anything less is unjust.

How so? This is a point you have not explained.

Do you understand how the punishment changes depending on who you do it to?

No. I am not a lawyer, so I could be wrong, but it would seem to me that the crime must change in order for the punishment to change (though in different countries this might vary and penalties have a range, for example, minimum and maximum fines and sentences.) This website describes different kinds of assault, and assaulting a peace or police officer has its own category:

https://www.yyccriminaldefence.ca/diffe ... es-canada/


REGARDLESS... these are all laws and penalties that men have come up with.

I am not a lawyer either but you can understand in general my point. Right?
If you break something in a shop, you pay what the item costs and different items cost more or less?

Sure but...

The wage of sin (all sin) is DEATH. There are not varying degrees of death. The wage of sin itself is death.

Isn't interesting that the punishment is death for all sin? How is that just? Imagine a judge senting a robber to death, a liar to death, a fraudster for death, the person not paying their tax correctly to death, all our petty sins ... death? It only makes sense for the punishment to be so high if the smallest sin is against God.

Okay so if you understand that the wage (not punishment) of sin is death, why are you continuing to inquire about different punishments, different costs?



Peace again to you.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #149]

Yes, your problem is you think not God is good enough. You want the standard lower and works based.

You don't think that Jesus is good enough?? He is considered to involve a lower standard?

Obviously no created thing can pay for sins against God.

If you can honestly say that if I owed you $1,000,000 and you would accept a fig leaf I'll believe you are honest but not trust you in rational thinking.

You compare Christ to a fig leaf?

Well, the Bible says that Christ countered what Adam did, and Adam was created. So Christ was the perfect example of a man like Adam but who overcame temptation and proved faithful to God. It had to be a perfect MAN. "For since death is through a man, resurrection of the dead is also through a man. For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive." (I Corinthians 15:21,22) It's a perfect balance of justice.

This is the answer to "only God can save from sins." The Savior does not have to be God. (Christ balanced out what Adam did; Christ for Adam; Christ for our sins.)

[Wootah]

This is the answer to "only God can save from sins." The Savior does not have to be God. (Christ balanced out what Adam did; Christ for Adam; Christ for our sins.)

Until you realise all sin is against God. Now that you realise that how does that changes your thinking?