Gods and Demons interchangeable?

Argue for and against Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Zzyzx
Site Supporter
Posts: 25061
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:38 pm
Location: Bible Belt USA
Has thanked: 35 times
Been thanked: 57 times

Gods and Demons interchangeable?

Post #1

Post by Zzyzx »

.
Gods and Demons interchangeable?

Some people evidently believe that invisible demons direct or influence their lives

Some people evidently believe that invisible gods direct or influence their lives

What is the difference?
.
Non-Theist

If you stop claiming knowledge of invisible, undetectable unicorns, I will stop challenging your claim. Same goes for gods

ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

For a quick tutorial on science vs. religion, compare modern internet weather radar to ancient religious beliefs and superstitions about weather

"Demand money with the threat of violence and you'll get arrested. Do it with the threat of eternal damnation and it's tax deductible"

User avatar
SallyF
Guru
Posts: 1459
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:32 pm

Re: Gods and Demons interchangeable?

Post #2

Post by SallyF »

Zzyzx wrote: .
Gods and Demons interchangeable?

Some people evidently believe that invisible demons direct or influence their lives

Some people evidently believe that invisible gods direct or influence their lives

What is the difference?
The difference will depend on which Game of Pretend one is playing.

Some cultures believe that their version of "God" has three of more persons in their Blessed Godhead.

Some of the persons are imagined to act in a demonic/evil way …

And some of the persons are imagined to act in a godly/good way.

The Jehovah version of "God", however, is imagined to make peace AND create evil:

Isaiah 45:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I Jehovah do all these things.

When considering the Jewish version of "God", there IS no difference.

This mythological deity will as readily roast you as it will send you manna if you're peckish.

However, reading the folklore, the genocidal Jehovah performs lots of really, really evil acts ...

And it's VERY hard to find a story of this imaginary monster actually doing anything peaceful.
"God" … just whatever humans imagine it to be.

"Scripture" … just whatever humans write it to be.

User avatar
1213
Savant
Posts: 7556
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 4 times
Contact:

Re: Gods and Demons interchangeable?

Post #3

Post by 1213 »

Zzyzx wrote: .
Gods and Demons interchangeable?

Some people evidently believe that invisible demons direct or influence their lives

Some people evidently believe that invisible gods direct or influence their lives

What is the difference?
Bible tells God is spirit and love. When He influences, I think it means truthfulness and love. The other option is lack of love and truthfulness.

User avatar
Willum
Savant
Posts: 8582
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:14 pm
Location: The formerly Great US of A
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 9 times

Post #4

Post by Willum »

If we think about it a minute...

Satan was evidently persuasive enough to not only seduce 1/3 of the angels from God's grace to eternal damnation, BUT Eve, a perfect human as well.

Humans have no chance at distinguishing between them.

Jesus seduced the world away from Yahweh, such that there are about 550 Christians for every one Jew.
We may assume those praying to the wrong god are not in his good graces.

Alternatively, we see the pre-Jesus Yahweh as accepting animal and even human sacrifices. Doesn't sound like a winner either.

Then we have all the atrocity committed in gods' name without them lifting a finger to stop it.
They must've approved, or they could have don't SOMETHING.

So we have two factors, them both being seductive, and they both like bathing in blood.

The only difference I can see is image.

User avatar
SallyF
Guru
Posts: 1459
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:32 pm

Post #5

Post by SallyF »

Image

There's a whole bunch fantasy and imagination in this imaginary god and demon scenario.

But look at this biblical murder count …


Image

The biblical difference is that the biblical god/s is/are FAR, FAR more genocidal than the biblical demon.

But then again, as Member Jehovah's Witness has reminded us, some people NEED to be killed.
"God" … just whatever humans imagine it to be.

"Scripture" … just whatever humans write it to be.

Elijah John
Savant
Posts: 12152
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:23 pm
Location: New England
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Gods and Demons interchangeable?

Post #6

Post by Elijah John »

Zzyzx wrote: .
Gods and Demons interchangeable?

Some people evidently believe that invisible demons direct or influence their lives

Some people evidently believe that invisible gods direct or influence their lives

What is the difference?
No, Gods and demons are not interchangeable, any more than
benevolence and malevolence are interchangeable.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

User avatar
Tcg
Prodigy
Posts: 4275
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
Location: Third Stone
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Re: Gods and Demons interchangeable?

Post #7

Post by Tcg »

Elijah John wrote:
Zzyzx wrote: .
Gods and Demons interchangeable?

Some people evidently believe that invisible demons direct or influence their lives

Some people evidently believe that invisible gods direct or influence their lives

What is the difference?
No, Gods and demons are not interchangeable, any more than
benevolence and malevolence are interchangeable.
Given the horrific stories told about gods, it is impossible to determine whether you are defending demons or gods.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

Elijah John
Savant
Posts: 12152
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:23 pm
Location: New England
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Gods and Demons interchangeable?

Post #8

Post by Elijah John »

[Replying to post 7 by Tcg]

God= benevolence. Demons=malevolence. The stories which seem to conflate the two are dubious.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

Zzyzx
Site Supporter
Posts: 25061
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:38 pm
Location: Bible Belt USA
Has thanked: 35 times
Been thanked: 57 times

Re: Gods and Demons interchangeable?

Post #9

Post by Zzyzx »

.
Elijah John wrote:
Zzyzx wrote: Gods and Demons interchangeable?
No, Gods and demons are not interchangeable, any more than benevolence and malevolence are interchangeable.
That pins it down.

If Benevolent (marked by or disposed to doing good), it is from God.

If the directions include killing and destroying (malevolence) it is from a demon. Right?

Malevolent: wishing evil or harm to another or others; showing ill will; ill-disposed; malicious: evil; harmful; injurious: a malevolent inclination to destroy the happiness of others. https://www.dictionary.com
.
Non-Theist

If you stop claiming knowledge of invisible, undetectable unicorns, I will stop challenging your claim. Same goes for gods

ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

For a quick tutorial on science vs. religion, compare modern internet weather radar to ancient religious beliefs and superstitions about weather

"Demand money with the threat of violence and you'll get arrested. Do it with the threat of eternal damnation and it's tax deductible"

Elijah John
Savant
Posts: 12152
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:23 pm
Location: New England
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Gods and Demons interchangeable?

Post #10

Post by Elijah John »

Zzyzx wrote: .
Elijah John wrote:
Zzyzx wrote: Gods and Demons interchangeable?
No, Gods and demons are not interchangeable, any more than benevolence and malevolence are interchangeable.
That pins it down.

If Benevolent (marked by or disposed to doing good), it is from God.

If the directions include killing and destroying (malevolence) it is from a demon. Right?

Malevolent: wishing evil or harm to another or others; showing ill will; ill-disposed; malicious: evil; harmful; injurious: a malevolent inclination to destroy the happiness of others. https://www.dictionary.com
Yes, and there is plenty of benevolence in the Bible, and taught therein. But it's detractors either downplay those passages, or ignore them completely and instead, focus on the absurdity and atrocities that also (admittedly) exist within it's pages.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

Post Reply