Surely There Must Be a Better God

[SallyF]

This is the biblical god, Jehovah, imaginatively depicted engaging in yet another act of gross genocide.


Fortunately for humanity, the genocidal Jehovah is NEVER shown to be anything other than imaginary, and the tales of Jehovah are NEVER shown to be anything other than people just makin' stuff up.


Can we imagine a better god than Jehovah …?


Have humans ALREADY imagined better gods than Jehovah …?


(For the purposes of this topic, any of the words above can mean just whatever the respondent CHOOSES them to mean.)

[Tcg]

Can we imagine a better god than Jehovah …?

It wouldn't be hard to design a god better than Jehovah/YHWH.

Of course having no god at all would be better than having Jehovah/YHWH as a god. Fortunately, having no god at all seems to be the situation we face.


Tcg

[SallyF]

Parvati

Parvati is the Hindu goddess of love, beauty, purity, fertility and devotion.[20][21][22] She is considered to be one of the greatest forms of Adi Parashakti. She is the gentle and nurturing aspect of Adi Parashakti. She is the mother goddess in Hinduism and has many attributes and aspects. Each of her aspects is expressed with a different name, giving her over 100 names in regional Hindu mythologies of India, including the popular name Gauri.[23] Along with Lakshmi (goddess of wealth and prosperity) and Saraswati (goddess of knowledge and learning), she forms the trinity of Hindu goddesses.[24] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devi#Parvati


Parvati is PRECISELY as real or imaginary as the biblical Jehovah.


In my atheistic opinion …

Parvati's gentle and nourishing aspects are BETTER than Jehovah's wrath and genocide and requirement for human sacrifice to settle him down.


And I'm pretty sure Hindu's don't pretend to drink the blood of Parvati's son Ganesha.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 1 by SallyF]

One can be of the position that the one true Living God is in fact Benevolent YHVH. And not all of the acts or tales ascribe to him, or to his orders are accurate. So then there is no need for a "better" God, we have YHVH.

Here's an analogy. Just as there is a real, historical Jesus and a "Christ of Faith" (or myth) so there is a real, benevolent YHVH, and a "YHVH" tainted by primitive mythology. It is for the discerning Theist to do the digging, and uncover both the real Jesus and the real Jehovah.

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 1 by SallyF]

One can be of the position that the one true Living God is in fact Benevolent YHVH. And not all of the acts or tales ascribe to him, or to his orders are accurate. So then there is no need for a "better" God, we have YHVH.

But this simply can't be made to work Elijah John.

Even if there was a 'Real Benevolent God' that wasn't as the Hebrew folklore describes then it wouldn't be YHVH. So it would be silly to claim that YHVH is benevolent, when the folklore demands that he's not.

In short, if you are going to pretend that there could be a 'Real Benevolent God' then you need to discord YHVH. You can't cling to an ancient folklore of a God that clearly isn't benevolent.

Here's an analogy. Just as there is a real, historical Jesus and a "Christ of Faith" (or myth) so there is a real, benevolent YHVH, and a "YHVH" tainted by primitive mythology. It is for the discerning Theist to do the digging, and uncover both the real Jesus and the real Jehovah.

No, you can't do that, because by demanding that this imagined "Real God" is named YHVH or Jehovah you are basically demanding that the God described in those terrible stories is indeed the God that you are referring to.

If you want to pretend that there could be a "Real Benevolent God" then it's time to toss YHVH in the trash can as a clearly false folklore.

By the way, why in the world would it even be important to believe in a "Real Benevolent God"?

Have you forgotten that the only reason that it's important to believe in YHVH is because he has been described in Hebrew folklore to be a jealous God who will unleash his evil wrath on you if you don't obey his commandments and directives?

And far more importantly how could you even claim to know what his commandments and directives would even be without pointing to the very Hebrew Folklore that you are attempting to distance this God from?

I mean, seriously. Let's say that you had a church and you were attempting to preach from the pulpit with the Hebrew Bible on a podium in front of you. What would you need to be saying to your congregation in order to support this position?

You would need to say, "Hey people, let's believe in the God described in this collection of tales whilst simultaneously pretending that the tales cannot be trusted to be correct or true"

I don't know what kind of congregation you would have left after doing that, but if I were there I would just roll my eyes and walk out as there would be nothing left worth listening to at that point.

You can't preach from a book that you, yourself, are claiming does not even correctly describe the very God you are trying to get people to worship.

You are basically saying, "Come on people, let's just ignore the book and pretend the God is nice, but also cling to the book at the same time with the totally absurd idea that it is still meaningful."

I just can't imagine how any person who actually understands what you had just proposed could think that it could be meaningful at that point.

If you don't like the God described in the Bible then why not toss the Bible out and look for a better religion, or invent one yourself?

Clinging to a Bible that even you cannot defend as being trustworthy, accurate and true, just doesn't make any sense to me at all.

There comes a time when we need to recognize when something has indeed become futile and move on to something better.

You don't need to become an atheist, but surely you can find a better religion? Why not pick a religion where you don't need to be ashamed of how its doctrines portray its God?

Some religious people have actually renounced all religions as man-made but they still believe in a "God' of their own imagination.

This sounds like precisely what you are proposing, with the exception that you can't stop calling the God YHWH or Jehovah. It's like you have already decided that you don't like the God described in the Bible, but want to keep its name and the book while you redefine the God via your own imagination of what you think the God ought to be like.

I just don't see how that can be made to work.

How do you convince someone that the "God of the Bible" is real, but not anything at all like the God described in the Bible?

Surely you can see how that makes no sense at all?

[SallyF]

This is Tara.


Tara is a goddess.


Tara is PRECISELY as real and imaginary as the biblical Jehovah.


Tara (Sanskrit: तारा, t�r�; Tib. སྒྲོལ་མ, Dölma), Ārya T�r�, or Shayama Tara, also known as Jetsun Dölma (Tibetan language: rje btsun sgrol ma) in Tibetan Buddhism, is an important figure in Buddhism. She appears as a female bodhisattva in Mahayana Buddhism, and as a female Buddha in Vajrayana Buddhism. She is known as the "mother of liberation", and represents the virtues of success in work and achievements. She is known as Tara Bosatsu (多羅�薩) in Japan, and occasionally as Du�luó Púsà (多羅�薩) in Chinese Buddhism.[1]

T�r� is a meditation deity worshiped by practitioners of the Tibetan branch of Vajrayana Buddhism to develop certain inner qualities and to understand outer, inner and secret teachings such as karuṇ� (compassion), mett� (loving-kindness), and shunyata (emptiness). T�r� may more properly be understood as different aspects of the same quality, as bodhisattvas are often considered metaphors for Buddhist virtues. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tara_(Buddhism)


We've got metaphors and all sorts of things here - just like we do in Christianity.


BUT …


As far as we know …


Tara isn't about to burst through the clouds at any moment to exterminate non-Buddhists …


Not like the Charlie Russell look-alike Jehovah in the imagined scene of genocide above.


For this New Atheist, Tara is a MUCH nicer god.


(Oh yes ... I CHOOSE "better" to mean "nicer" … and other things.)

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 6 by SallyF]

Tare is a picture or a statue. A lifeless idol with multiple eyes that cannot see, ears that cannot hear, and a mouth that cannot speak.. YHVH, by contrast is not to be depicted with any images. The fact that you attempt to do so with your memes in no way diminishers, reduces or contains the Living God YHVH.

[SallyF]

[Replying to post 6 by SallyF]

Tare is a picture or a statue. A lifeless idol with multiple eyes that cannot see, ears that cannot hear, and a mouth that cannot speak.. YHVH, by contrast is not to be depicted with any images. The fact that you attempt to do so with your memes in no way diminishers, reduces or contains the Living God YHVH.

The images of Jehovah are also lifeless - Christians generally do not believe they ARE Jehovah.


I have yet to meet anyone who believed a representation of a god actually WAS that god.


Jehovah - like every other god - is NEVER shown to be anything other than imaginary.


Humans - in my opinion - have imagined gods that are FAR BETTER than the imaginary Genocidal Jehovah.


But please feel free to demonstrate that Jehovah is NOT imaginary.

[SallyF]

This is Amaterasu.


Amaterasu is a Japanese representation of God.


Amaterasu is both as real and imaginary as the Genocidal Jehovah.


Amaterasu (Japanese: 天照), Amaterasu-�mikami (Japanese: 天照大神 or 天照大御神) or Ōhirume-no-muchi-no-kami (Japanese: 大日�貴神), is a goddess in Japanese mythology. She is the Sun Goddess, and the most sacred of all Shinto deities. Her name, Amaterasu, means "(that which) illuminates Heaven." Her shrine is at Ise. https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amaterasu


Amaterasu is not known to have slaughtered anyone's firstborn.

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 6 by SallyF]

Tare is a picture or a statue. A lifeless idol with multiple eyes that cannot see, ears that cannot hear, and a mouth that cannot speak.. YHVH, by contrast is not to be depicted with any images. The fact that you attempt to do so with your memes in no way diminishers, reduces or contains the Living God YHVH.

We could of course turn this around and it would be as equally valid: Describing Tara as "A lifeless idol with multiple eyes that cannot see, ears that cannot hear, and a mouth that cannot speak.", in no way diminishers, reduces or contains the Living God Tara.

Just as this claim about Tara is an unsupported assertion, so is the above claim about YHWH. This leaves both of these gods on equal footing, as precarious as it is for both.


Tcg