Did God send bears to rip open 42 little boys?

[amortalman]

In chapter 2 of 2 Kings, we read an odd tale concerning the Fantastic Duo, prophets of the Lord, Elijah and his sidekick, Elisha. We find the Duo wandering around with Elijah not really knowing which town he wanted to land in. But it was settled when a chariot of fire and horses of fire came down and took Elijah up to heaven in a whirlwind.

So Elisha doubles back and with the help of Elijah's cloak and "Elijah's God," he parts the Jordan river so he can walk over on dry land. He must be in a very nasty mood because this is where he loses it when some kids start mocking him:

23 He went up from there to Bethel, and going up on the way, little boys came out of the city and made fun of him and said to him, “Go up, you bald head! Go up, you bald head!� 24 He turned around, saw them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two she-bears came out of the woods and ripped open forty-two of the boys.

For debate: What do we make of this horrifying tale?

(1) Is it fact or fiction?
(2) If fiction, why is it presented as fact?
(3) If fact, what does this say about the Lord's prophet and the Lord himself?

[christian001]

God did not send bears to rip open 42 little boys https://www.explainchristianity.com/how ... -children/

[Miles]

God did not send bears to rip open 42 little boys https://www.explainchristianity.com/how ... -children/

Then why bother telling the tale? Everything in 2 Kings 2 leading up to the bear incident involves interactions of Elijah and/or Elisha with the Lord:

verse 4:
Elijah said to Elisha, “Please stay here, because the Lord told me to go to Jericho.”

verse 6:
Elijah said to Elisha, “Please stay here, because the Lord told me to go to the Jordan River.”

The Lord Takes Elijah Into Heaven
verse 11:
Elijah and Elisha were walking and talking together. Suddenly, some horses and a chariot came and separated Elijah from Elisha. The horses and the chariot were like fire. Then Elijah was carried up into heaven in a whirlwind.

verse 21:
Then Elisha went out to the place where the water began flowing from the ground. Elisha threw the salt into the water and said, “The Lord said, ‘I am making this water pure! From now on this water will not cause any more death or keep the land from growing crops.’”

verses 23-24:
23 Elisha went from that city to Bethel. He was walking up the hill to the city, and some boys were coming down out of the city. They began making fun of him. They said, “Go away, you bald-headed man! Go away, you bald-headed man!” 24 Elisha looked back and saw them. He asked the Lord to cause bad things to happen to them. Then two bears came out of the forest and attacked the boys. There were 42 boys ripped apart by the bears.

I believe the tale is related to show how god was willing to repay the devotion Elijah and Elisha had shown him by responding to a simple (to god) request by Elisha. Although this is an incredibly loathsome and immoral response, it is in keeping with god's often contemptible character, such as condoning the ownership of other humans; slavery. (Leviticus 25:44-46); ordering the slaughter of innocent women, children, and little babies. (1 Samuel 15:2-3); and the killing of practicing male homosexuals. (Leviticus 20:13) Note that practicing homosexual females are allowed to live. In fact, god is the admitted creator of all evil,

"Isaiah 45:7 (King James Version)
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

So having a couple of bears come out of the forest to rip apart 42 kids for taunting an old man is a walk in the park for such a barbaric god.

.

[Difflugia]

Then why bother telling the tale?

The usual apologetic response isn't even that it didn't happen, but that it's possible that the victims weren't technically children.

So having a couple of bears come out of the forest to rip apart 42 kids for taunting an old man is a walk in the park for such a barbaric god.

The linked article tries to play Hebrew word games. The words translated as "boy" or "youth" in verses 23 and 24 can sometimes mean adolescents, often stretched by apologists to young adulthood. Since that's true, the argument goes, it's possible that those taunting the prophet weren't children, but members of a dangerous gang, some of whom could even shave. The problem with that argument is that the description in verse 23 isn't just a single Hebrew word meaning boys or youths, but is a two word phrase that literally means small boys. The bears killed forty-two small boys. Even if it was a gang of short teenagers, they were still kids by pretty much any standard.

The article goes even further, though, to claim that it's possible that the bears didn't actually kill anyone. The article claims that the bears just "mauled" those short boys and "sent them away bleeding." The Hebrew word for the bear attack means to split apart, as in "the bears split the short boys apart." It's the same word used in 2 Kings 15:16 to describe what was done to the pregnant women of Tiphsah by a military conquerer:

Then Menahem attacked Tiphsah and all who were in it and its border areas, from Tirzah. He attacked it because they didn’t open their gates to him, and he split apart all their women who were with child.

I'll leave it to the reader to decide where "splitting apart" lands on the barbarity continuum and whether the author intended it to be fatal in either case.

[JehovahsWitness]

... the description in verse 23 isn't just a single Hebrew word meaning boys or youths, but is a two word phrase that literally means small boys.

SMALL OR YOUNG ?


The Hebrew word translated in some bible as "small" can also refer to age, as in young.


source: http://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednamebibl ... .htm#S6996

2 KINGS 2 : 23

NASB 1995
Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up by the way, young lads came out from the city and mocked him and said to him, “Go up, you baldhead; go up, you baldhead!”

International Standard Version
Later, Elisha left there to go up to Bethel, and as he was traveling along the road, some insignificant young men came from the city and started mocking him. They told him, "Get on up, baldy! Get on up, baldy!"

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[Difflugia]

The Hebrew word translated in some bible as "small" can also refer to age, as in young.

That's the argument that apologists are arguing against. My comment referring to the boys as short was sarcastic.

The word meaning "boy" refers to one that is not yet an adult (lower right corner, continuing to the next page). A "young" version of someone that is already a child is what the apologists (and uncomfortable translators) are trying to avoid by transforming the "young boys" into dangerous young men, intent on hurting more than the prophet's feelings.

The verse is literally about "little boys" making fun of a bald old man. An apology and being grounded is in order.

God sent bears to split them apart.

[JehovahsWitness]

The word meaning "boy" refers to one that is not yet an adult

Not in Hebbrew, the Hebrew word used in the text can cover children OR young adults (see your source screenshot below)

Source : https://archive.org/details/hebrewengli ... 4/mode/1up

JW


So the language allows for the "small boys" to actually be rendered "young (qatan) men/lads (naar)".


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[brunumb]

The verse is literally about "little boys" making fun of a bald old man. An apology and being grounded is in order.

God sent bears to split them apart.

Regardless of their age the response from Jehovah/Yahweh/God is on the same level we might expect of a barbarian ruler like Attila the Hun. Despicable.

[JehovahsWitness]

Regardless of their age the response from Jehovah/Yahweh/God is on the same level we might expect of a barbarian ruler like Attila the Hun. Despicable.

DID GOD OVER REACT WHEN HE "SENT" THE BEARS?




God did not overreact and did nothing despicable, the young men behaved recklessly and paid the price. Firstly, they were in bear country, if God witndrew his protection against wild animals and they were attacked by wild animals that was their own fault!

To illustrate : You are in a car, with a skilled driver, travelling at 100 miles an hour. You decided to take off your seatbelt and poke the driver in the eye. The driver loses control of the car. The car crashes. The driver survives (because he's wearing a seatbelt) you die. Do you blame the seatbelt? Was the seatbelt despicable because it did not protect you?

Just as the passenger's only protection was the skill of the driver (and his own natrual good sense in taking prescautions to protect his person), the young men would have done well to not aggrevate God's prophet who represented God's continued blessing and protection for the people. God was their national "seatbelt" and the Prophet their driver. The mobs* disresptful and frankly threatening behaviour was reckless in the extreme.

Their punishment was not overly harsh, it was what they as a nation had agreed to; they got what they deserved.

LEVITICUS 26: 3, 6

“‘If you continue walking in my statutes and keeping my commandments ... I will rid the land of vicious wild animals, and a sword of war will not pass through your land.

*if 42 were killed it seems reasonable to conclude the mob must have been even larger

JW


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[Miles]

Then why bother telling the tale?

The usual apologetic response isn't even that it didn't happen, but that it's possible that the victims weren't technically children.

So having a couple of bears come out of the forest to rip apart 42 kids for taunting an old man is a walk in the park for such a barbaric god.

The linked article tries to play Hebrew word games. The words translated as "boy" or "youth" in verses 23 and 24 can sometimes mean adolescents, often stretched by apologists to young adulthood. Since that's true, the argument goes, it's possible that those taunting the prophet weren't children, but members of a dangerous gang, some of whom could even shave. The problem with that argument is that the description in verse 23 isn't just a single Hebrew word meaning boys or youths, but is a two word phrase that literally means small boys. The bears killed forty-two small boys. Even if it was a gang of short teenagers, they were still kids by pretty much any standard.

As is often the case with different Bible translations there can be a number differing of renderings of a foreign word. In this case the Hebrew word נַעַר (naʿar) for those who mocked the bald man. Looking at 53 different Bibles I found 48 that are pretty much in accord with describing children of some sort.

Little children................. 7
Boys............................ 12
Little boys..................... 4
Small boys................... 10
Young boys................... 9
Little kids...................... 1
Youths.......................... 2
Little youths.................. 1
Young lads.................... 2
Young people................ 1
Young men................... 3
Insignificant young men 1

The article goes even further, though, to claim that it's possible that the bears didn't actually kill anyone. The article claims that the bears just "mauled" those short boys and "sent them away bleeding." The Hebrew word for the bear attack means to split apart, as in "the bears split the short boys apart." It's the same word used in 2 Kings 15:16 to describe what was done to the pregnant women of Tiphsah by a military conquerer:

Then Menahem attacked Tiphsah and all who were in it and its border areas, from Tirzah. He attacked it because they didn’t open their gates to him, and he split apart all their women who were with child.

Looked into this as well. The Hebrew word בָּקַע (bāqaʿ) that describes what the bears did has been translated as:

Attacked....................... 1
Mangled....................... 1
Mauled....................... 17
Tore........................... 15
Tore up........................ 3
Tore apart.....................1
Tore in (to) pieces.........5
Ripped up.....................2
Ripped to pieces............2
Ripped apart.................1
Ripping limb from limb.. 1
Ripped open..................1
Rent.............................1
Rend........................... 1

Please note that many of these describe an event that could hardly have left the unfortunate 42 alive. So while the plurality of descriptions here may be "mauled," the majority describe attacks that would not have "sent them away bleeding."

.

[brunumb]

God did not overreact and did nothing despicable, the young men behaved recklessly and paid the price. Firstly, they were in bear country, if God witndrew his protection against wild animals and they were attacked by wild animals that was their own fault!

To think that this is how the creator of the universe responds to such a situation is truly laughable. Well, ridiculous at least. This is the workings of a comic book deity that cannot be taken seriously.