What was special about Jesus's sacrifice and in contrast why were none of the previous sacrifices to God sufficient?
Also was Jesus perfect?
Why were none of the previous sacrifices to God sufficient?
Moderator: Moderators
- Wootah
- Savant
- Posts: 9241
- Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
- Has thanked: 191 times
- Been thanked: 108 times
Why were none of the previous sacrifices to God sufficient?
Post #1Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826
"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image ."
Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826
"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image ."
- JehovahsWitness
- Savant
- Posts: 21225
- Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
- Has thanked: 803 times
- Been thanked: 1138 times
- Contact:
Re: Why were none of the previous sacrifices to God sufficient?
Post #101I didnt say they asked about a future generation, I said the question concerned a future generation. ie the answer to their question would relate to a future generation, whether they knew it or not.Miles wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:15 pmNope. They didn't ask specifically about "a future generation," but simply "when?"JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:15 am
Nobody is contending that Jesus was not speaking to his disciples (verses 1, 2) , but the question he was asked (v3) concerned both them and a future generation.
Now, did the asker ask about China or the generation alive in 2350? No. Did the question concern or was it RELATED to that future generation? Yes. Because the anwser to the question would be in the future.To illustrate:
QUESTION : When will America be great again?
ANSWER: Just after China invades the United States in 2350.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
- Difflugia
- Prodigy
- Posts: 3069
- Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:25 am
- Location: Michigan
- Has thanked: 3316 times
- Been thanked: 2031 times
Re: Why were none of the previous sacrifices to God sufficient?
Post #102For the illustration to apply, the question and answer would have to look like this:JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:15 amTo illustrate:
QUESTION : When will America be great again?
ANSWER: Just after China invades the United States in 2350.
QUESTION: When will we see America be great again?
ANSWER: Just after you see China invade the United States.
Remember that this is reported as a private conversation between Jesus and his followers and you're still asking us to treat "we" and "you" differently than that context would suggest.
My pronouns are he, him, and his.
- JehovahsWitness
- Savant
- Posts: 21225
- Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
- Has thanked: 803 times
- Been thanked: 1138 times
- Contact:
Re: Why were none of the previous sacrifices to God sufficient?
Post #103No, the disciples are not recorded as asking "when will we see ..." they asked when will these things be [ie happen] ]Difflugia wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:46 amFor the illustration to apply, the question and answer would have to look like this:JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:15 amTo illustrate:
QUESTION : When will America be great again?
.
QUESTION: When will we see America be great again?
* general "you" as I humans/ people/christians/...
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
- Difflugia
- Prodigy
- Posts: 3069
- Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:25 am
- Location: Michigan
- Has thanked: 3316 times
- Been thanked: 2031 times
Re: Why were none of the previous sacrifices to God sufficient?
Post #104Indeed. I stand corrected.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:58 amNo, the disciples are not recorded as asking "when will we see ..." they asked when will these things be [ie happen] ]
This, however, is still not suggested by the context of a private conversation between Jesus and his followers no matter how many times you repeat the claim.
My pronouns are he, him, and his.
- JehovahsWitness
- Savant
- Posts: 21225
- Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
- Has thanked: 803 times
- Been thanked: 1138 times
- Contact:
Re: Why were none of the previous sacrifices to God sufficient?
Post #105Are you suggesting a private conversation cannot address public issues?
JW
RELATED POSTS
Does the fact that Jesus was speaking TO his 1st century disciples at Matthew chapter 24 mean he could only speak about issues effecting first century disciples? ( you , we )
viewtopic.php?p=1054865#p1054865
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
- Difflugia
- Prodigy
- Posts: 3069
- Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:25 am
- Location: Michigan
- Has thanked: 3316 times
- Been thanked: 2031 times
Re: Why were none of the previous sacrifices to God sufficient?
Post #106Of course not. Are you suggesting the only way to address public issues in a private conversation is for "you" to mean someone outside of that conversation?JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 4:13 amAre you suggesting a private conversation cannot address public issues?
My pronouns are he, him, and his.
- JehovahsWitness
- Savant
- Posts: 21225
- Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
- Has thanked: 803 times
- Been thanked: 1138 times
- Contact:
Re: Why were none of the previous sacrifices to God sufficient?
Post #107Of course not. I am saying that the disciples asked Jesus a multi-layered question that concerned his (Jesus) disciples, both those in the first century (the destruction of the temple) and in the future (the end of the world system of things). Regardless of whether they thought two events would be at the same time , Jesus masterfully interweaved information that would concern ALL Christians, especially those of the "final generation" that would witness **all** (not some) of the events recorded in Matthew 24.Difflugia wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 4:26 amOf course not. Are you suggesting the only way to address public issues in a private conversation is for "you" to mean someone outside of that conversation?JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 4:13 amAre you suggesting a private conversation cannot address public issues?
JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
-
- Sage
- Posts: 851
- Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:13 pm
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 28 times
Re: Why were none of the previous sacrifices to God sufficient?
Post #108Responding to JW
Quote: “Post #7
Post
by JehovahsWitness » Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:30 pm
Overcomer wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:53 am
JW wrote:
Scripturally, yes Jesus was perfect; ie. a sinless human being.
How is it possible that Jesus was a sinless human being?
It was possible because he was born as a result of an immaculate conception. Not having a human father, but having a human life that came as a result of Almighty God's (JEHOVAH) holy spirit, Jesus became the only truly perfect baby ever born.
My response:
Observe the following from the definition of the word immaculate.
im·mac·u·late | \ i-ˈma-kyə-lət
\
Definition of immaculate
1
: spotlessly clean
an immaculate kitchen
immaculate uniforms
2
: having or containing no flaw or error
an immaculate record of service
in immaculate detail
3
: having no stain or blemish : PURE
an immaculate heart
Antonyms
coarse, dirty, filthy, immodest, impure, indecent, obscene, smutty, unchaste, unclean, vulgar
Now, for example, If I and my wife had thew presence of the Holy Ghost with us whenI overshadowed my wife and she conceived and bore us 5 sons and daughters, was there anything that was not immaculate regarding her conception?
Was there anything that was unholy regarding her conception?
Since we were united in Holy Matrimony, was there anything impure regarding the birth of these offspring?
Where is you proof that these children were not born from an immaculate conception?
Was there also a baby who was innocent when thus born?
When did this dogma and doctrine relating to the immaculate conception of Christ begin?
The doctrine proclaimed as infallible
The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was proclaimed as infallible by Pope Pius IX in the bull (formal proclamation) Ineffabilis Deus in 1854, and thus is an important article of faith for Roman Catholics.
LUKE 1:35
" “Holy spirit will come upon you,and power of the Most High will overshadow you. And for that reason the one who is born will be called holy, God’s Son "
Jesus birth as a result of God miraculously implanting a ferilized egg in the womb of the virgin girl Mary without her engaging in any sexual activity. That life being shielded from any imperfection it might have inherited from its imperfect mother, meant Jesus did not inherit adamic sin* and his lifecourse of perfect integrity meant that he not only was conceived and born perfect but lived a perfect, sinless life. “
My response:
My response to your above paragraph is that you have no scripture stating your declared manner of conception. For it is nothing but a “man made speculation” regarding the conception of Christ.
So, JW let’s hear your evidence regarding you above claims.
Kind regards,
RW
Quote: “Post #7
Post
by JehovahsWitness » Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:30 pm
Overcomer wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:53 am
JW wrote:
Scripturally, yes Jesus was perfect; ie. a sinless human being.
How is it possible that Jesus was a sinless human being?
It was possible because he was born as a result of an immaculate conception. Not having a human father, but having a human life that came as a result of Almighty God's (JEHOVAH) holy spirit, Jesus became the only truly perfect baby ever born.
My response:
Observe the following from the definition of the word immaculate.
im·mac·u·late | \ i-ˈma-kyə-lət
\
Definition of immaculate
1
: spotlessly clean
an immaculate kitchen
immaculate uniforms
2
: having or containing no flaw or error
an immaculate record of service
in immaculate detail
3
: having no stain or blemish : PURE
an immaculate heart
Antonyms
coarse, dirty, filthy, immodest, impure, indecent, obscene, smutty, unchaste, unclean, vulgar
Now, for example, If I and my wife had thew presence of the Holy Ghost with us whenI overshadowed my wife and she conceived and bore us 5 sons and daughters, was there anything that was not immaculate regarding her conception?
Was there anything that was unholy regarding her conception?
Since we were united in Holy Matrimony, was there anything impure regarding the birth of these offspring?
Where is you proof that these children were not born from an immaculate conception?
Was there also a baby who was innocent when thus born?
When did this dogma and doctrine relating to the immaculate conception of Christ begin?
The doctrine proclaimed as infallible
The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was proclaimed as infallible by Pope Pius IX in the bull (formal proclamation) Ineffabilis Deus in 1854, and thus is an important article of faith for Roman Catholics.
LUKE 1:35
" “Holy spirit will come upon you,and power of the Most High will overshadow you. And for that reason the one who is born will be called holy, God’s Son "
Jesus birth as a result of God miraculously implanting a ferilized egg in the womb of the virgin girl Mary without her engaging in any sexual activity. That life being shielded from any imperfection it might have inherited from its imperfect mother, meant Jesus did not inherit adamic sin* and his lifecourse of perfect integrity meant that he not only was conceived and born perfect but lived a perfect, sinless life. “
My response:
My response to your above paragraph is that you have no scripture stating your declared manner of conception. For it is nothing but a “man made speculation” regarding the conception of Christ.
So, JW let’s hear your evidence regarding you above claims.
Kind regards,
RW