IF GOD SO LOVED "EVERYONE", THEN WHY DID HE HATE ESAU?

[Eddie Ramos]

It seems like John 3:16 is by far the most widely memorized verse among people who know anything about the Bible because it speaks about God loving the world. While this verse may seem like "good news" to everyone who reads it, it does not stand alone from the rest of the scriptures. No verse does.

So, as most people are glad to memorize that verse, what happens when they come across a verse like this?:

Romans 9:13 (KJV) 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Malachi 1:2-3 (KJV)
2 I have loved you, saith the LORD.
Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us?
Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD:
yet I loved Jacob,
3 And I hated Esau,
and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Psalms 5:5 (KJV)
5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight:
thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Psalms 11:5 (KJV)
5 The LORD trieth the righteous:
but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Psalms 5:6 (KJV)
6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing:
the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

How does John 3:16 look in light of these passages? Did God change? No, God does not change (Malachi 3:6). This teaches us that we can't just focus on John 3:16 and conclude that God's love for the world, in the giving of his Son, is actually not referring to every individual in the world (because there are passages that tell us about God hating others), but rather John 3:16 is referring to certain people within the world. These certain people are also known as God's beloved which means to be loved.

1 John 4:10-11 (KJV) 10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

The beloved are thise who were chosen for salvation, those who were called to be saints.

Romans 1:7 (KJV) 7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

My question for this thread is: Can you see that the Bible, on one hand, speaks of God's love in conjunction with those whose sins were laid on Christ? And on the other hand, can you see that those who were hated, are those whose sins were not laid upon Christ? This is what it means to be hated. It means that you have to pay for your own sins by your own death.

[Rose2020]

It depends in what spirit you read those incredible words.

God does not love those who are wicked, that is impossible.
Nobody can or should do that. God loves us all as His precious creations. So much so, that He sent His son to die for us. Who do you love so much that you would do that for them?
God wants us to know him and love Him willingly. That offer and choice is open to all. Any wicked man must repent before he can benefit from God's love.

[Miles]

It depends in what spirit you read those incredible words.

God does not love those who are wicked, that is impossible.
Nobody can or should do that. God loves us all as His precious creations. So much so, that He sent His son to die for us. Who do you love so much that you would do that for them?
God wants us to know him and love Him willingly. That offer and choice is open to all. Any wicked man must repent before he can benefit from God's love.

God loves us all as His precious creations. VS. God does not love those who are wicked, that is impossible. Just how does such a contradiction work?

.

[Rose2020]

[Replying to Miles in post #3]
Well he created us all. But he is not going reward those who choose to be truly evil. That would be absurd.

It is just like our own children. We will always love them as our children but if they choose to be thoroughly bad news we as parents will not tolerate or reward it. We would be deeply disappointed and have to be firm. Such children will not inherit, will not be trusted or favoured. Children who are obedient and faithful will be honoured and will inherit what we have.

[Miles]

[Replying to Miles in post #3]
Well he created us all. But he is not going reward those who choose to be truly evil. That would be absurd.

As absurd as creating evil in the first place?

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

I think not. And no one said anything about reward, only love. God apparently loves and does not love everyone.

It is just like our own children. We will always love them as our children but if they choose to be thoroughly bad news we as parents will not tolerate or reward it. We would be deeply disappointed and have to be firm. Such children will not inherit, will not be trusted or favoured. Children who are obedient and faithful will be honoured and will inherit what we have.

But you don't say a thing about not loving them for what they did. So it's not a "Just like" situation.

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[JehovahsWitness]

DOES GOD LOVE EVERYONE IN THE WORLD?

Many misunderstand John 3:16 and take it to mean God has affection for every individual in the the world, but in reality it means that God has a principled love (agape) for every individual. This allows Him to act kindly even towards those individuals that he does not like.

To illustrate. A fire chief takes measures to put out a raging fire in a building. Does he do this only for those with whom he has a certain sense of affinity? That shares his love of music or art? Does he only put out the fire of noted charity workers but leave the room of a known pedophile ? No, regardless of how he feels about the individuals, he sends in his men to put out the fire for everyone in the building

In a similar way God loves mankind ("the world") and has according to the scripture shown great love for them in taking measures to ensure the continuation of the human race .

His personal affection/friendship, is reserved for the faithful alone.





JW


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LOVE, HATE and ... THE DIVINE PERSONALITY

[Miles]

DOES GOD LOVE EVERYONE IN THE WORLD?

Many misunderstand John 3:16 and take it to mean God has affection for every individual in the the world, but in reality it means that God has a principled love (agape) for every individual. This allows Him to act kindly even towards those individuals that he does not like.

Pity him who makes his opinions a certainty---Irish proverb.

.

[Eddie Ramos]

It depends in what spirit you read those incredible words.

God does not love those who are wicked, that is impossible.
Nobody can or should do that. God loves us all as His precious creations. So much so, that He sent His son to die for us. Who do you love so much that you would do that for them?
God wants us to know him and love Him willingly. That offer and choice is open to all. Any wicked man must repent before he can benefit from God's love.

Thanks for your reply, but it's contradictory. You said, "God does not love those who are wicked, that is impossible." And then you said, "Any wicked man must repent before he can benefit from God's love". If God does not love the wicked, then what love is there for them to benefit from? God's love (like he loved Jacob) is describing his sacrificial love of atonement. This means that God's hatred (like he hated Esau), is describing the fact those who did not have the sacrificial love of atonement shed on their behalf. This means that those who Esau represents are those who have not had their sins paid or by Christ.

[The Tanager]

My question for this thread is: Can you see that the Bible, on one hand, speaks of God's love in conjunction with those whose sins were laid on Christ? And on the other hand, can you see that those who were hated, are those whose sins were not laid upon Christ? This is what it means to be hated. It means that you have to pay for your own sins by your own death.

Romans 9:13 - I believe the context of this passage is about God’s election of how people would be saved. God didn’t (but could have) chosen that “all Jewish people will be saved” or “those who perfectly follow the Law will be saved” but instead chose “all those who put their trust in the Messiah will be saved.” So, the love/hate here is about choosing/loving Jacob as the Messianic line and Esau not being that line. It had to be one or the other.

Malachi 1:2-3, Psalm 5:5-6, Psalm 11:5 are about hating wicked deeds and bringing consequences upon those that unrepentantly go about doing them.

John 3:16 and 1 John 4:10-11 are about how God still loves these (i.e., all) individuals, wishing that they would turn from their wickedness. God, knowing they can’t do this on their own, sent the Messiah on our behalf. This salvation comes to whoever trusts in the Messiah (John 3:18, 1 John 4:15).

Paul addresses Romans to people who have trusted in the Messiah.

So, God hates our wickedness but loves the wicked enough to give us a sure way out of that life into a better life. If we remain wicked, trying (and failing) to be good on our own, then we are facing that righteous, loving hatred. God’s love is fulfilled by those who accept what Christ does for us, as we are transformed into truly loving people.

[Rose2020]

[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #8]

So you think God should love evil people? Which means nobody would need to repent or obey him or accept Christ.