Did God restore Israel in 1948?

[dad1]

Israel must be back in the land in the end time according to the bible. Some people suggest that God brought them back, and that they are now fulfilling prophesy such as the desert blooming like a rose etc. Can anyone support that idea? Several denominations do make such claims.

In the end, after the remnant repents and Jesus returns, is when God restores believing Israel to the land. Not, as far as I can tell, in 1948. So, there are good bible teaching preachers that seem to think otherwise (Jack Hibbs, Behold Israel, Jan Markell, James Kaddis, Bret meador, etc etc). The thread is for someone to support their claims. In other threads I have not seen this done yet.

[MilesJBennell]

EPHESIANS 2:15

By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees,.

Can you explain what said above here? Paul mentioned "commandementss" and " decrees" and the word "law" and "abolished".

The law was not abolished but we are no longer in bondage to the law, as a woman is loosed from the law of her husband when he dies, we too are likewise now loosed from our bondage to the law and there is no longer longer hostility between us and God, if we are in Christ, who died for us, and we in him died to the law.

7 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

[JehovahsWitness]

EPHESIANS 2:15

By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees,.

The law was not abolished but we are no longer in bondage to the law ...

So when Paul said the Law was abolished he meant the Law was not abolished?

Anyway, I dont think you have answered this question ....

... the old covenant was abolished, but not the law which is now written in us.

Emphasis MINE
... when you say " the law which is now written in us" , are you refering to the law of the old covenant or the law of the new covenant?




JW

[1213]

Nobody us implying he does. But since you acknowledge there is an "old" and a "new" covenant, my question is not unreasonable: WHAT DID GOD DO WITH THE DO WITH THE OLD COVENANT ONCE HE HAD BOUGHT IN A NEW ONE?
...

If God has not broken the old one, I think it is still exists. But, obviously we have also the new covenant, which is sufficient on its own.

[JehovahsWitness]

WHAT DID GOD DO WITH THE DO WITH THE OLD COVENANT ONCE HE HAD BOUGHT IN A NEW ONE?
...

... I think it is still exists.

Well it "exists" in the sense we can read it in the Hebrew bible : but the terms of the Mosaic covenant could not be modified: there was no allowance for non observation of the law. Indeed, on the contrary breaking the covenant carried a curse. To suggest that the two covenant run concurrently means the curse of non-observation continues. This is contrary to what the bible says.

Further, the Mosaic covenant deliberately represented a division between the Israelites and non-Israelites. Non Jews were barred from fully worshipping Jehovah by law. The Mosaic covenent could not be modified (there was no provision to "amend" the original to include the people of the nations).

The former would have to be removed for the new to open the way for the people of the nations. There is no way for the two opposing covenants to co-exist.

[1213]

...There is no way for the two opposing covenants to co-exist.

I think they co-exist, but the means of how people keep the law are different. In the old one people tried to keep the law, because they had to, even if they didn't want to. In the new one the law is written in hearts of people and they want to keep it, because they understand it is good.

For finding fault with them, he said, "Behold, the days come," says the Lord, "That I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; Not according to the cov-enant that I made with their fathers, In the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; For they did-n't continue in my covenant, And I disregarded them," says the Lord. "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days," says the Lord; "I will put my laws into their mind, I will also write them on their heart. I will be to them a God, And they will be to me a people. They will not teach every man his fellow citizen,{TR reads "neighbor" instead of "fellow citizen"} Every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' For all will know me, From the least of them to the great-est of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness. I will remember their sins and lawless deeds no more."
Heb. 8:8-12 (Jer. 31:31-34)

[JehovahsWitness]

... the old covenant was abolished, but not the law which is now written in us.

It is evident to me that you have a different understanding about what The (Mosaic) law is and what the covenant is. I'm asking the following to find out what you think these two things actually are.

(a) Who were the parties of the old covenant?
(b) What were the terms and conditions of the old covenant ?
(c) What is "the law" Paul refered to and how does it relate to (a) and (b)

What in real terms, would be the difference in terms of obligations for the above **IF** ....

(d) the contract /covenant was abolished along with the law?
(e) the contract /covenant was not abolished and the law was not abolished law?

Please read post #139 -->> viewtopic.php?p=1149039#p1149039 if you need help understanding the questions


JW

[JehovahsWitness]

I think [The old and new covenants] co-exist, but the means of how people keep the law are different.

It is evident to me that you have a different understanding about what The (Mosaic) law is and what the covenant is. I'm asking the following to find out what you think these two things actually are.

(a) Who were the parties of the old covenant?
(b) What were the terms and conditions of the old covenant ?
(c) What is "the law" Paul refered to and how does it relate to (a) and (b)

What in real terms, would be the difference in terms of obligations for the above **IF** ....

(d) the contract /covenant was abolished along with the law?
(e) the contract /covenant was not abolished and the law was not abolished law?

Please read post #139 -->> viewtopic.php?p=1149039#p1149039 if you need help understanding the questions

[Revelations won]

My responses:

Dad1 said in his “OP”:

“Israel must be back in the land in the end time according to the bible. Some people suggest that God brought them back, and that they are now fulfilling prophesy such as the desert blooming like a rose etc. Can anyone support that idea? Several denominations do make such claims.

In the end, after the remnant repents and Jesus returns, is when God restores believing Israel to the land. Not, as far as I can tell, in 1948. So, there are good bible teaching preachers that seem to think otherwise (Jack Hibbs, Behold Israel, Jan Markell, James Kaddis, Bret meador, etc etc). The thread is for someone to support their claims. In other threads I have not seen this done yet.”

There are many responses attempting to answer the OP questions, such as Israel was restored in 1948 or Israel was restored 2000 years ago.

It is blatantly obvious that neither of these falsely assumed claims come even close to fulfilling the referenced prophesies for the following reasons.

First:

If the answer does not address “Israel” then wherein is there any real answer given?

Second:

The restoration of the “tribe of Judah” to Jerusalem to rebuild the temple 2000 years ago did not in any way apply to the “House of Israel”. The clear fact is that this applied only to 1/12 of the house of Israel kn own as the tribe of Judah.

Third:

The governmental established in 1948 to establish a land for the tribe of Judah applied to them only! There is simply putting it, no mention or documentation in that decree establishing the return of those constituting the other 11 tribes of Israel to to return to their God given lands of inheritance.

Fourth:

I submit that anyone trying to give correct answers to the OP by representing only 1/12th of Israel leaves the vast majority of the topic unanswered.

Fifth:

If any respondents can give a complete answer that deals with the gathering and restoration of ll twelve tribes of Israel in the last days as taught in the Bible, then let us hear the clear and correct answers as to how this will be accomplished ???

[1213]

...
(a) Who were the parties of the old covenant?
(b) What were the terms and conditions of the old covenant ?
(c) What is "the law" Paul refered to and how does it relate to (a) and (b)
...

a) God and Jews.

b)
Know therefore that Yahweh your God, he is God, the faithful God, who keeps covenant and loving kindness with them who love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations, and repays those who hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him who hates him, he will repay him to his face.
Deut. 7:9-10
But if you will not listen to me, and will not do all these commandments; and if you shall reject my statutes, and if your soul abhors my ordinances, so that you will not do all my commandments, but break my covenant; I also will do this to you: I will appoint terror over you, even consumption and fever, that shall consume the eyes, and make the soul to pine away; and you will sow your seed in vain, for your enemies will eat it.
Lev. 26:14-16
I will scatter you among the nations, and I will draw out the sword after you: and your land will be a desolation, and your cit-ies shall be a waste.
Lev. 26:33

c) I believe Paul referred to the God's law, the commandments God gave.

[JehovahsWitness]

.

b)
Know therefore that Yahweh your God, he is God, the faithful God, who keeps covenant and loving kindness with them who love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations, and repays those who hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him who hates him, he will repay him to his face.
Deut. 7:9-10
But if you will not listen to me, and will not do all these commandments; and if you shall reject my statutes, and if your soul abhors my ordinances, so that you will not do all my commandments, but break my covenant; I also will do this to you: I will appoint terror over you, even consumption and fever, that shall consume the eyes, and make the soul to pine away; and you will sow your seed in vain, for your enemies will eat it.
Lev. 26:14-16
I will scatter you among the nations, and I will draw out the sword after you: and your land will be a desolation, and your cit-ies shall be a waste.
Lev. 26:33

Can you explain your understanding of (b)

Its important because if your understanding of the TERMS and conditions is wrong , the understanding of the what would happen vis-avis termination and/or violation of said terms will be inaccurate.

- how long would this covenant to be in operation?
- what was the purpose of the covenant (what, if anything was the covenant meant to achieve) ?
- what was the purpose of the law? (what, if anything was the law meant to achieve) ?
- what were the parties contracted to do?
- what (if anything) would happened to the parties should one or both not honour their part of the contract

c) I believe Paul referred to the God's law, the commandments God gave.

To whom?
How many laws were there?
Were any parts able to be changed/disregareds or modified?

Please read post #139 -->> viewtopic.php?p=1149039#p1149039 if you need help understanding the questions