Did Christianity lose its way?

oldbadger · Post by **oldbadger** » Tue Feb 07, 2023 2:31 am

The Abrahamic God explained how success could be won by keeping exactly to his laws, his way.
But as the Israelites fell away from these so the prophets came to restore order.
In Isaiah's time the land was corrupted and lawless and he called a restoration of law and order.
When the Baptist came his appearance was answering Isaiah's call.
When Jesus appeared he called for a return of the law but without the need for all those priesthood backhanders within the system of sacrifices.

So where did Christianity get all it's amazing ideas from......... ?

Here are just a small selection of verses from the bible to show a continuous message......... the laws............which Christianity then mangled, in my opinion.

GENESIS {18:19} For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

EXODUS{18:19} Hearken now unto my voice, I will give thee counsel, and God shall be with thee: Be thou for the people to God-ward, that thou mayest bring the causes unto God: {18:20} And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt shew them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do.

LEVITCUS {20:22} Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out. {20:23} And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them. {20:24} But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I [am] the LORD your God, which have separated you from [other] people.

DEUTERONOMY {5:33} Ye shall walk in all the ways which the LORD your God hath commanded you, that ye may live, and [that it may be] well with you, and [that] ye may prolong [your] days in the land which ye shall possess. {6:1} Now these [are] the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments,

SAMUEL {22:22} For I have kept the ways of the LORD, and have not wickedly departed from my God. {22:23} For all his judgments [were] before me: and [as for] his statutes,

PSALMS {18:21} For I have kept the ways of the LORD, and have not wickedly departed from my God. {18:22} For all his judgments [were] before me, and I did not put away his statutes from me.

ISAIAH {40:3} The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. {40:4} Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:

Matthew {3:3} For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Mark {1:3} The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. {1:4} John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Luke {3:4} As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Matthew {11:12} And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. {11:13} For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. {11:14} And if ye will receive [it,] this is Elias, which was for to come. {11:15} He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Matthew {5:17} Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. {5:18} For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. {5:19} Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever
shall do and teach [them,] the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew {21:32} For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen [it,] repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

Matthew {7:12} Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

oldbadger · Post by **oldbadger** » Sun Feb 12, 2023 1:23 am

JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 1:57 am
QUESTION: Did the fact that Jesus quoted Hosea 6:6 effectively constitute a revoking of the laws which established a temple based system of sacrifice?

Jesus said that for himself, by himself and I expect that he meant what he said.

But actions s[peak louder than words, so what Jesus did on the Monday and Tuesday after that first 'Palm' Sunday says it all.
And that Temple coin's strikes (images) were an outrage to the Jewish people as well.

oldbadger · Post by **oldbadger** » Sun Feb 12, 2023 1:27 am

JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 3:48 am
oldbadger wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 2:53 am
Jeremiah, like Isaiah, was most sad the the people had turned away from the law [...] And like Isaiah he called for an adjustment of the laws...And that is what the Baptist and Jesus called for
oldbadger wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 12:58 am Jeremiah {31:31} Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel...
Do new and adjusted mean the same thing? If you adjust your tie, is that the same as getting a new tie?

Try 'redaction' ..... Jesus certainly wanted an end to sacrifice, certainly didn't support the outrageous corruption at the Temple currency and animal bazaars.

oldbadger · Post by **oldbadger** » Sun Feb 12, 2023 1:40 am

brunumb wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 7:46 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 3:48 am If you adjust your tie, is that the same as getting a new tie?
No. But if you adjust a law it becomes a new law.

Yes.... Jesus wanted to redact sacrificial laws and any others that aided such a corrupted priesthood.

But Christianity just got lost in its own upheaval, dumping nearly all whilst trying to raise up and enforce a very few others. It also dumped all the poor laws which had provided for the disabled and less fortunate people. Jesus believed in providence for all, so why extreme Christianity is so extreme right wing is a wonder.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Sun Feb 12, 2023 3:24 am

brunumb wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 7:46 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 3:48 am If you adjust your tie, is that the same as getting a new tie?
No. But if you adjust a law it becomes a new law.

No it doesnt it becomes an amended /adjusted law. So for example if there is a law : "Homosexual activity is prohibited" , it might be adjusted to "Homosexual Homosexual activity is prohibited but only for people under 18" . The law is still there (Homosexual Homosexual activity is prohibited ) but it has had an amendedment/adjustment, which amounts to a change from applying to everyone to applying to everyone in a specific age group (over 18).

COULD THE MOSAIC LAW BE AMENDED ?

Hebrew law* existed as a whole; changing/amending/adapting any part of it would require changing it all. This is why Jesus said He had not come to change one letter of the Law* (compare Hebrews 7:12)

Unlike secular or modern day Federal laws. "The law" was viewed as the work of God. It therefore could not be "redacted" "amended" or changed. It represented the agreement between God and the nation of Israel, they were obliged to honour it (as is) under numerous curses and blessings. They had at no time been granted unilateral power to make ANY changes to it.

* Hebrew Law consisted of about 600 individual laws known as the Mosaic law or biblically simply... "The Law"

PERSONL BLOG : Finger of God https://fosterheologicalreflections.blo ... tives.html

JW

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oldbadger · Post by **oldbadger** » Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:03 am

JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 3:24 am
brunumb wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 7:46 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 3:48 am If you adjust your tie, is that the same as getting a new tie?
No. But if you adjust a law it becomes a new law.
No it doesnt it becomes an amended /adjusted law. So for example if there is a law : "Homosexual activity is prohibited" , it might be adjusted to "Homosexual Homosexual activity is prohibited but only for people under 18" . The law is still there (Homosexual Homosexual activity is prohibited ) but it has had an amendedment/adjustment, which amounts to a change from applying to everyone to applying to everyone in a specific age group (over 18).

COULD THE MOSAIC LAW BE AMENDED ?

Hebrew law* existed as a whole; changing/amending/adapting any part of it would require changing it all. This is why Jesus said He had not come to change one letter of the Law* (compare Hebrews 7:12)
Unlike secular or modern day Federal laws. "The law" was viewed as the work of God. It therefore could not be "redacted" "amended" or changed. It represented the agreement between God and the nation of Israel, they were obliged to honour it (as is) under numerous curses and blessings. They had at no time been granted unilateral power to make ANY changes to it.

* Hebrew Law consisted of about 600 individual laws known as the Mosaic law or biblically simply... "The Law"

PERSONL BLOG : Finger of God https://fosterheologicalreflections.blo ... tives.html

JW

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Question.
Are you saying that Jesus ended the Mosiac laws?
Yes? No?

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:19 am

oldbadger wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:03 am
Are you saying that Jesus ended the Mosiac laws?
Yes? No?

No.

JW

To read more please go to other posts related to ...

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tam · Post by **tam** » Sun Feb 12, 2023 1:25 pm

Peace to you all!

Just as an fyi:

The written law from the OLD covenant (mediated through Moses) is the law that had amendments. The most obvious example (to me) is the law on divorce, where Christ said (when the people asked Him), "Moses gave you this law because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning." He then proceeded to tell them what was true from the beginning.

The written law was for those who NEEDED laws spelled out in order to know how to behave, for those who did not know how to live FREE (and remember that Israel had just been set free from generations of slavery), and for those whose hearts were hard. The law was also meant as a tutor- leading to Christ yes, and teaching them that there is a difference between the holy and the common, and also teaching them what was wrong.

But the law that is from God from the beginning... is love.

THAT is the law of the NEW covenant. THAT is the law that is written upon the hearts of the people IN the new covenant. Love covers many of the laws that were given through Moses (do not commit murder, do not bear false witness against your neighbor... love would not do these things) - and it also covers giving to the one in need, blessing those who curse you, forgiving those who wrong you, being merciful, not judging (these are also covered under the golden rule - do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and that is pretty much the same as 'love your neighbor as yourself').

Christ - our King, the One to whom God told us to listen - also said that the two most important commandments are to love God with one's whole heart, mind, soul... and to love your neighbor as yourself. He then added that we are to love our enemies. That we are to love one another as He loved us (<- He gave His life for us, so that is an immense love that He showed, both for us and for His Father in heaven). We are to bless and not curse (including blessing those who curse us), forgive those who wrong us; be merciful.

Love also covers over a multitude of sins (1Peter 4:8), and there is no law AGAINST love (Galatians 5:22, 23). God is also love, and therefore, does it not make sense that the law that comes from Him would also be love?

The written law of the old covenant is the law that had amendments and adjustments. Christ taught us what was true from God from the beginning.

Peace again to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

oldbadger · Post by **oldbadger** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 1:09 am

JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:19 am
oldbadger wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:03 am
Are you saying that Jesus ended the Mosiac laws?
Yes? No?
No.

JW

I agree..... he did not, and the fact that so many congregations, creeds and churches have dumped most of the old laws while fixating upon a very few shows how they lost their way, imo.

One example is the number of 'fundamental' Christians who are on extreme right wing of politics. If anything Jesus believed in and called for support for all people.

PS. If you want to say something important to a post could you just show it?

oldbadger · Post by **oldbadger** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 1:19 am

tam wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 1:25 pm Peace to you all!

Just as an fyi:

The written law from the OLD covenant (mediated through Moses) is the law that had amendments. The most obvious example (to me) is the law on divorce, where Christ said (when the people asked Him), "Moses gave you this law because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning." He then proceeded to tell them what was true from the beginning.

The written law was for those who NEEDED laws spelled out in order to know how to behave, for those who did not know how to live FREE (and remember that Israel had just been set free from generations of slavery), and for those whose hearts were hard. The law was also meant as a tutor- leading to Christ yes, and teaching them that there is a difference between the holy and the common, and also teaching them what was wrong.

Sure...Jesus adjusted, emphasised or redacted various laws.
Oh, and No, the Israelites took their freedom, so I don't have to remember that this influenced their acceptance of laws. Their God told them that all the surrounding peoples could have followed such laws but did not and so failed.
No, the law was not a tutor it was a blue print for success through health, security, strength and cohesion.

But the law that is from God from the beginning... is love.

THAT is the law of the NEW covenant. THAT is the law that is written upon the hearts of the people IN the new covenant. Love covers many of the laws that were given through Moses (do not commit murder, do not bear false witness against your neighbor... love would not do these things) - and it also covers giving to the one in need, blessing those who curse you, forgiving those who wrong you, being merciful, not judging (these are also covered under the golden rule - do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and that is pretty much the same as 'love your neighbor as yourself').

Observance of the laws meant success.

Christ - our King, the One to whom God told us to listen - also said that the two most important commandments are to love God with one's whole heart, mind, soul... and to love your neighbor as yourself. He then added that we are to love our enemies. That we are to love one another as He loved us (<- He gave His life for us, so that is an immense love that He showed, both for us and for His Father in heaven). We are to bless and not curse (including blessing those who curse us), forgive those who wrong us; be merciful.

Love also covers over a multitude of sins (1Peter 4:8), and there is no law AGAINST love (Galatians 5:22, 23). God is also love, and therefore, does it not make sense that the law that comes from Him would also be love?

The written law of the old covenant is the law that had amendments and adjustments. Christ taught us what was true from God from the beginning.

Christ is not my king, Tam....Nature is the king around here...Mother Nature.

Peace again to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

And Peace to you, Tammy

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:58 am

oldbadger wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 1:09 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:19 am
oldbadger wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:03 am
Are you saying that Jesus ended the Mosiac laws?
Yes? No?
No.

JW
I agree.....

Good to hear it. The the ENTIRE LAW has been abolished but as we agree, Jesus didn't do that (he had no right to ) ... YHWH Amighty God Jehovah did.

JW

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