Questions about Jesus and JW’s

[MissKate13]

1. Jehovah’s Witnesses say Jesus was “a god.” This is how the NWT reads (John 1:1).

Do JW’s believe Jesus was a true or false god?

2. JW’s say Jesus is a created being.

When was Jesus (capital or lower case g) created?

I look forward to your responses to one or both questions.

MissKate13

[JehovahsWitness]

INFERIOR

1. lower in rank, status, or quality.

IS JESUS LOWER IN RANK AND STATUS TO YHWH ALMIGHTY GOD THE FATHER?

• " the SON HIMSELF will also be subject to the ONE who subjected everything to HIM ..." - 1 Corinthians 15:28

• "the Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative " - John 5:19

• " I do nothing of my own initiative; but just as the Father taught me ..." - John 8:28

• " ...the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man, in turn, the head of the Christ is God

CONCLUSION : Scripture (and Jesus own words) refering to his position in heaven indicate Jesus is presently still INFERIOR to his Father in that he is of lower rank, status, position, power and authority.



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[LittleNipper]

... ‘Jehovah is his name and this is proved by, ‘this is his name… [quoting Jer 23:6]

JEREMIAH 23:5, 6

“Look! The days are coming,” declares Jehovah, “when I will raise up to David a righteous sprout. And a king will reign+ and show insight and uphold justice and righteousness in the land. 6 In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will reside in security. And this is the name by which he will be called: Jehovah Is Our Righteousness.”

Do Jesus theophoric names make him equal to Almighty God?
viewtopic.php?p=1112508#p1112508

When Paul said, “At the name of Jesus every knee will bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth” (Philippians 2:10, CSB), the emphasis was on every creature in the universe acknowledging JESUS as LORD over all creation. When he stated, “Every tongue will confess that JESUS CHRIST is LORD” (verse 11), he meant that every living thing, both in heaven and on earth, will honor CHRIST. Heavenly forces and demonic powers, people who reject CHRIST and HIS faithful in the church, all will bow before HIM (Isaiah 45:23–24). Every tongue will acknowledge JESUS for who HE is—the SOVEREIGN LORD of the universe.

The JWs do everything in their doctrine to throw JESUS CHRIST under the bus as an inferior being GOD created to manipulate, and ultimately this is offensive to GOD the FATHER.

The trinity doctrine puts Jesus in a position that even Jesus didn't consider himself equal to.

"Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, did not even consider the idea of trying to be equal to God." Philippians 2:5, 6

There is no throwing anyone under the bus when that person themselves don't consider themselves equal to God. So this reply is an attempt to accuse a people of something where there is no wrong doing according to scripture. According the man made trinity doctrine it's very damaging and I'm fine with that as I aim to please Jehovah and not man's created doctrines.

The following is a New World corruption of what the Bible says
"Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, did not even consider the idea of trying to be equal to God." Philippians 2:5, 6

The King James reads as follows Philippians 2:5-6
King James Version
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

JESUS who is of a godly form didn't regard it usurping to be GOD's equal. It the same with A god vs. GOD, when in fact the Bible implies and clearly states that there is ONLY ONE god. There are no other TRUE gods. So CHRIST is either ONE with the FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT as GOD or CHRIST is not GOD. But HE cannot be both. And a god cannot save anyone. So, it's JW's doctrine that is inferior and not the Lord JESUS CHRIST ---- EMMANUEL (GOD with us).

[JehovahsWitness]

QUESTION: HOW SHOULD PHILIPPIANS 2:5, 6 BE PROPERLY TRANSLATED?

ENGLISH STANDARD VERSION
Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped

Was Paul saying here that Jesus considered equality with God to be something he should rightfully "grasp" (ie to take and cling to) OR was Paul's meaning that that Jesus knew he had no right to try and obtain it?

The phrase in verse 6, [ouch harpagmon hegesato: not - seize - (he) considered] is, it has to be admitted on the surface somewhat ambiguous. The Greek word translated "grasp" by the ESV is harpagmon ; about this word The Expositora's Greek Testament makes the following comment:

We cannot find any passage where [har·paʹzo] or any of its derivatives [including harpagmon] has the sense of holding in possession, retaining. It seems invariably to mean "seize/ snatch violently." (Grand Rapids, Mich.; 1967), edited by W. Robertson Nicoll, Vol. III, pp. 436, 437.

A Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament (George Abbot Smith), states "there is certainly a presumption in favour of the active meaning here" since the apostle does not use the LXX form harpagma. Paul thus speaks of an act of seizing [...] - A-S 60

Interestingly 1969, a new French lectionary that was approved by the Holy See rendered Phil 2:6: Christ Jesus is God's image; but he did not choose to seize by force equality with God

NOTE: If he [Christ] refused to seize it [equality with God], it must be that he did not already possess it. stated The Catholic monthly magazine Itineraires, supplement January 1971. If Christ did not already possess equality with God he cannot *BE* God.


AN IDIOMATIC EXPRESSION

Certain propose that this was an idiomatic expression for something you can use to your advantage, whether that means something you've taken from someone else to use to your advantage, or something you already possess (even your own innate qualities) that you might wield to your own advantage. So, even if this is such an idiomatic expression , it can STILL be read to mean Jesus refrained from usurping a position he did not inately posses.


CONCLUSION Philippians is quite an ambiguous passage which has evidently been a challenge to translate. It can evidently be read to refer to the "illegal" taking of something one does not innately posses OR the abuse of something one does. Arguably, it is the wider context of the Greek Scripture which favors the former reading over the latter.






JW


Further reading : https://fosterheologicalreflections.blo ... -26-7.html


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How should Harpagmos rightly be translated? [tigger]
viewtopic.php?p=1041994#p1041994

To learn more please go to to other posts related to ...

GOD, JESUS and ...THE "TRINITY TEXTS" DEBUNKED

[LittleNipper]

QUESTION: HIT SHOULD PHILIPPIANS 2:5, 6 BE PROPERLY TRANSLATED?

ENGLISH STANDARD VERSION
Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped

Was Paul saying here that Jesus considered equality with God to be something he should rightfully "grasp" (ie to take and cling to) OR was Paul's meaning that that Jesus knew he had no right to try and obtain it?

The phrase in verse 6, [ouch harpagmon hegesato: not - seize - (he) considered] is, it has to be admitted on the surface somewhat ambiguous. The Greek word translated "grasp" by the ESV is harpagmon ; about this word The Expositora's Greek Testament makes the following comment:

We cannot find any passage where [har·paʹzo] or any of its derivatives [including harpagmon] has the sense of holding in possession, retaining. It seems invariably to mean "seize/ snatch violently." (Grand Rapids, Mich.; 1967), edited by W. Robertson Nicoll, Vol. III, pp. 436, 437.

A Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament (George Abbot Smith), states "there is certainly a presumption in favour of the active meaning here" since the apostle does not use the LXX form harpagma. Paul thus speaks of an act of seizing [...] - A-S 60

Interestingly 1969, a new French lectionary that was approved by the Holy See rendered Phil 2:6: Christ Jesus is God's image; but he did not choose to seize by force equality with God

NOTE: If he [Christ] refused to seize it [equality with God], it must be that he did not already possess it. stated The Catholic monthly magazine Itineraires, supplement January 1971. If Christ did not already possess equality with God he cannot *BE* God.


AN IDIOMATIC EXPRESSION

Certain propose that this was an idiomatic expression for something you can use to your advantage, whether that means something you've taken from someone else to use to your advantage, or something you already possess (even your own innate qualities) that you might wield to your own advantage. So, even if this is such an idiomatic expression , it can STILL be read to mean Jesus refrained from usurping a position he did not inately posses.


CONCLUSION Philippians is quite an ambiguous passage which has evidently been a challenge to translate. It can evidently be read to refer to the "illegal" taking of something one does not innately posses OR the abuse of something one does. Ultimately it is the wider context of the Greek Scripture which arguably favors the former reading over the latter.






JW


Further reading : https://fosterheologicalreflections.blo ... -26-7.html


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How should Harpagmos rightly be translated? [tigger]
viewtopic.php?p=1041994#p1041994

To learn more please go to to other posts related to ...

GOD, JESUS and ...THE "TRINITY TEXTS" DEBUNKED

Please regard the following instead of the JWs dogma: https://dailyverse.knowing-jesus.com/philippians-2-6

[2timothy316]

... ‘Jehovah is his name and this is proved by, ‘this is his name… [quoting Jer 23:6]

JEREMIAH 23:5, 6

“Look! The days are coming,” declares Jehovah, “when I will raise up to David a righteous sprout. And a king will reign+ and show insight and uphold justice and righteousness in the land. 6 In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will reside in security. And this is the name by which he will be called: Jehovah Is Our Righteousness.”

Do Jesus theophoric names make him equal to Almighty God?
viewtopic.php?p=1112508#p1112508

When Paul said, “At the name of Jesus every knee will bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth” (Philippians 2:10, CSB), the emphasis was on every creature in the universe acknowledging JESUS as LORD over all creation. When he stated, “Every tongue will confess that JESUS CHRIST is LORD” (verse 11), he meant that every living thing, both in heaven and on earth, will honor CHRIST. Heavenly forces and demonic powers, people who reject CHRIST and HIS faithful in the church, all will bow before HIM (Isaiah 45:23–24). Every tongue will acknowledge JESUS for who HE is—the SOVEREIGN LORD of the universe.

The JWs do everything in their doctrine to throw JESUS CHRIST under the bus as an inferior being GOD created to manipulate, and ultimately this is offensive to GOD the FATHER.

The trinity doctrine puts Jesus in a position that even Jesus didn't consider himself equal to.

"Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, did not even consider the idea of trying to be equal to God." Philippians 2:5, 6

There is no throwing anyone under the bus when that person themselves don't consider themselves equal to God. So this reply is an attempt to accuse a people of something where there is no wrong doing according to scripture. According the man made trinity doctrine it's very damaging and I'm fine with that as I aim to please Jehovah and not man's created doctrines.

The following is a New World corruption of what the Bible says
"Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, did not even consider the idea of trying to be equal to God." Philippians 2:5, 6

The King James reads as follows Philippians 2:5-6
King James Version
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

JESUS who is of a godly form didn't regard it usurping to be GOD's equal. It the same with A god vs. GOD, when in fact the Bible implies and clearly states that there is ONLY ONE god. There are no other TRUE gods. So CHRIST is either ONE with the FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT as GOD or CHRIST is not GOD. But HE cannot be both. And a god cannot save anyone. So, it's JW's doctrine that is inferior and not the Lord JESUS CHRIST ---- EMMANUEL (GOD with us).

Most translations put it this way, "though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped."

If Jesus was equal to God there would be no reason for Paul to write that sentence.

The Bible is superior to the man-made trinity doctrine. Jesus is NEVER referred to as the True God in the Bible.

[LittleNipper]

... ‘Jehovah is his name and this is proved by, ‘this is his name… [quoting Jer 23:6]

JEREMIAH 23:5, 6

“Look! The days are coming,” declares Jehovah, “when I will raise up to David a righteous sprout. And a king will reign+ and show insight and uphold justice and righteousness in the land. 6 In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will reside in security. And this is the name by which he will be called: Jehovah Is Our Righteousness.”

Do Jesus theophoric names make him equal to Almighty God?
viewtopic.php?p=1112508#p1112508

When Paul said, “At the name of Jesus every knee will bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth” (Philippians 2:10, CSB), the emphasis was on every creature in the universe acknowledging JESUS as LORD over all creation. When he stated, “Every tongue will confess that JESUS CHRIST is LORD” (verse 11), he meant that every living thing, both in heaven and on earth, will honor CHRIST. Heavenly forces and demonic powers, people who reject CHRIST and HIS faithful in the church, all will bow before HIM (Isaiah 45:23–24). Every tongue will acknowledge JESUS for who HE is—the SOVEREIGN LORD of the universe.

The JWs do everything in their doctrine to throw JESUS CHRIST under the bus as an inferior being GOD created to manipulate, and ultimately this is offensive to GOD the FATHER.

The trinity doctrine puts Jesus in a position that even Jesus didn't consider himself equal to.

"Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, did not even consider the idea of trying to be equal to God." Philippians 2:5, 6

There is no throwing anyone under the bus when that person themselves don't consider themselves equal to God. So this reply is an attempt to accuse a people of something where there is no wrong doing according to scripture. According the man made trinity doctrine it's very damaging and I'm fine with that as I aim to please Jehovah and not man's created doctrines.

The following is a New World corruption of what the Bible says
"Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, did not even consider the idea of trying to be equal to God." Philippians 2:5, 6

The King James reads as follows Philippians 2:5-6
King James Version
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

JESUS who is of a godly form didn't regard it usurping to be GOD's equal. It the same with A god vs. GOD, when in fact the Bible implies and clearly states that there is ONLY ONE god. There are no other TRUE gods. So CHRIST is either ONE with the FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT as GOD or CHRIST is not GOD. But HE cannot be both. And a god cannot save anyone. So, it's JW's doctrine that is inferior and not the Lord JESUS CHRIST ---- EMMANUEL (GOD with us).

Most translations put it this way, "though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped."

If Jesus was equal to God there would be no reason for Paul to write that sentence.

The Bible is superior to the man-made trinity doctrine. Jesus is NEVER referred to as the True God in the Bible.

Do you believe JESUS was equal with GOD? If not, that is why Paul wrote what he wrote and it's the HOLY SPIRIT that gives to the saved the proper understanding. JESUS didn't empty HIMSELF and come to earth as a servant to gain anything for HIMSELF. HIS power was already assured and the love HE shared with the FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT is eternal and without malice towards the other two persons of the TRINITY. In the name of the FATHER the SON and the HOLY SPIRIT, forever AMEN.

[2timothy316]

... ‘Jehovah is his name and this is proved by, ‘this is his name… [quoting Jer 23:6]

JEREMIAH 23:5, 6

“Look! The days are coming,” declares Jehovah, “when I will raise up to David a righteous sprout. And a king will reign+ and show insight and uphold justice and righteousness in the land. 6 In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will reside in security. And this is the name by which he will be called: Jehovah Is Our Righteousness.”

Do Jesus theophoric names make him equal to Almighty God?
viewtopic.php?p=1112508#p1112508

When Paul said, “At the name of Jesus every knee will bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth” (Philippians 2:10, CSB), the emphasis was on every creature in the universe acknowledging JESUS as LORD over all creation. When he stated, “Every tongue will confess that JESUS CHRIST is LORD” (verse 11), he meant that every living thing, both in heaven and on earth, will honor CHRIST. Heavenly forces and demonic powers, people who reject CHRIST and HIS faithful in the church, all will bow before HIM (Isaiah 45:23–24). Every tongue will acknowledge JESUS for who HE is—the SOVEREIGN LORD of the universe.

The JWs do everything in their doctrine to throw JESUS CHRIST under the bus as an inferior being GOD created to manipulate, and ultimately this is offensive to GOD the FATHER.

The trinity doctrine puts Jesus in a position that even Jesus didn't consider himself equal to.

"Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, did not even consider the idea of trying to be equal to God." Philippians 2:5, 6

There is no throwing anyone under the bus when that person themselves don't consider themselves equal to God. So this reply is an attempt to accuse a people of something where there is no wrong doing according to scripture. According the man made trinity doctrine it's very damaging and I'm fine with that as I aim to please Jehovah and not man's created doctrines.

The following is a New World corruption of what the Bible says
"Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, did not even consider the idea of trying to be equal to God." Philippians 2:5, 6

The King James reads as follows Philippians 2:5-6
King James Version
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

JESUS who is of a godly form didn't regard it usurping to be GOD's equal. It the same with A god vs. GOD, when in fact the Bible implies and clearly states that there is ONLY ONE god. There are no other TRUE gods. So CHRIST is either ONE with the FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT as GOD or CHRIST is not GOD. But HE cannot be both. And a god cannot save anyone. So, it's JW's doctrine that is inferior and not the Lord JESUS CHRIST ---- EMMANUEL (GOD with us).

Most translations put it this way, "though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped."

If Jesus was equal to God there would be no reason for Paul to write that sentence.

The Bible is superior to the man-made trinity doctrine. Jesus is NEVER referred to as the True God in the Bible.

Do you believe JESUS was equal with GOD? If not, that is why Paul wrote what he wrote and it's the HOLY SPIRIT that gives to the saved the proper understanding. JESUS didn't empty HIMSELF and come to earth as a servant to gain anything for HIMSELF. HIS power was already assured and the love HE shared with the FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT is eternal and without malice towards the other two persons of the TRINITY. In the name of the FATHER the SON and the HOLY SPIRIT, forever AMEN.

How can Jesus ever need to gain anything? If he is God wouldn't he already have everything? How can anyone be assured power that is supposed to be equal to the other parts already? The trinity doctrine has more holes in it than a sponge.

[onewithhim]

Quite the contrary it indicates the exact opposite. Let is look at what it says ...

The verse does indeed speak of someone being subject, but it says the THE SON will be subject to someone identified as "The ONE ..." ...



WHO in your opinion is Paul refering to as "THE ONE" in this verse ?



JW

But it also says {snip: did not ask what it also said} .

You have not answered the question. (Well move on to what it also says later, but first let's take the clause (part of the sentence) that uses the verb we are most interested in ---> "to subject")

So... Let me ask again my question for you is: WHO in your opinion is Paul refering to as "THE ONE" in this verse ?

The ONE is the FATHER of course. But it says that the ONE placed EVERYTHING in subjection to HIM (who is CHRIST of course). Everything doesn't leave any room for exceptions, now does it.

It also says that it is with the exception of the One who placed all things under the Son's feet (I
Corinth. 15:27), so yes, there is room for exceptions.

Then---"when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone." (I Corinth. 15:28)

I think these verses explain themselves. There is room for exceptions, AND Christ will always be in subjection to God, the Father.

The eternal order has been, is now, and forever will be: FATHER, SON, and HOLY SPIRIT. Within that DIVINE order, there is PERFECT EQUALITY among the three persons of the TRINITY. Each person in the GODHEAD, however, has an eternal role to play. In very human terms, which I use reverently, God the Father has delegated tasks to HIS well-beloved SON, with whom HE is well pleased (see Matthew 3:17; 17:5; Mark 1:11; 9:7; Luke 3:22; 9.35; and 2 Peter 1:17).

The Father delegates. The Father approves. Therefore the Father is superior to the Son, and Jesus himself said this. "The Father is greater than I am," he said (John 14:28). And that didn't just mean while he was on Earth. In heaven it is the same for Jesus. "I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God," Paul says at I Corinthians 11:3, when Christ returned to heaven.

Who is God? Not a trinity but ONE Person. Jesus said to his Father: "YOU are the only true God." (John 17:3) Paul wrote to the Corinthians also: "There is actually to us one God, the FATHER, out of whom all things are." (I Corinthians 8:6)

The Bible NEVER says that GOD is ONE PERSON. The Bible even uses the term US. Let US create man in OUR image. As for John 17:3 This can be used in two ways: One which is that the FATHER is the only true GOD in a unique sense, and secondly that HE is partially identical to the only true God which is TRIUNE thus HE is the only true God, as is JESUS and the HOLY SPIRIT. When JESUS speaks of HIS FATHER being greater than HIMSELF, JESUS is always in HIS incarnate form after HE emptied HIMSELF to dwell among humanity...

Throughout the Bible it is evident that God is ONE PERSON. "Hear O Israel: YHWH our God is ONE YHWH." (Deut.6:4) God is YHWH and YHWH alone.

When God said "Let us make man in our image," He was undoubtedly speaking to the Son, but that doesn't mean that the Son is also God. How do you get the Trinity out of that? The Father is speaking to His Son who is not described as being also God. Father and Son are having a conversation, with the Father calling all the shots. YHWH spoke to His Son about making humans. It was YHWH's idea. Just as Jesus said later: "I came to do my Father's will and not my own." (John 4:34; John 5:30)

ONLY GOD has the capacity to create from nothing. The Bible doesn't call GOD one PERSON. And I do not believe for one moment that GOD would be the sort to create another being to be tortured and hung on a cross. HE would take it upon HIMSELF --- that is unless GOD is three beings working together and are entirely connected. But you don't seem to be able to accept this.

I showed you that the Bible calls the Father the one true God. He is not a God of three individuals that somehow are the same.

God didn't create another creature to be tortured and die. Jesus was created billions of years before Adam made his unwise decision to go against God.

God is too magnificent to come to the earth Himself. I posted IKings 8:27 to show that the Bible says that even the heaven of the heavens cannot contain Him. He had to find a Person who would be willing to go to the earth and save mankind. He sent His best---His Son. If you read the scriptures you would see why this was done. (Romans 5:12-21) Jesus became a MAN, just as Adam was. He died as a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins. God couldn't have done it Himself because (1) He is too all-encompassing in the universe, (2) He cannot die, (3) If He were to die, who would raise God back to life? The Scripture says that God raised up Jesus from death. So He couldn't have been the One to die.

[LittleNipper]

... ‘Jehovah is his name and this is proved by, ‘this is his name… [quoting Jer 23:6]

JEREMIAH 23:5, 6

“Look! The days are coming,” declares Jehovah, “when I will raise up to David a righteous sprout. And a king will reign+ and show insight and uphold justice and righteousness in the land. 6 In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will reside in security. And this is the name by which he will be called: Jehovah Is Our Righteousness.”

Do Jesus theophoric names make him equal to Almighty God?
viewtopic.php?p=1112508#p1112508

When Paul said, “At the name of Jesus every knee will bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth” (Philippians 2:10, CSB), the emphasis was on every creature in the universe acknowledging JESUS as LORD over all creation. When he stated, “Every tongue will confess that JESUS CHRIST is LORD” (verse 11), he meant that every living thing, both in heaven and on earth, will honor CHRIST. Heavenly forces and demonic powers, people who reject CHRIST and HIS faithful in the church, all will bow before HIM (Isaiah 45:23–24). Every tongue will acknowledge JESUS for who HE is—the SOVEREIGN LORD of the universe.

The JWs do everything in their doctrine to throw JESUS CHRIST under the bus as an inferior being GOD created to manipulate, and ultimately this is offensive to GOD the FATHER.

The trinity doctrine puts Jesus in a position that even Jesus didn't consider himself equal to.

"Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, did not even consider the idea of trying to be equal to God." Philippians 2:5, 6

There is no throwing anyone under the bus when that person themselves don't consider themselves equal to God. So this reply is an attempt to accuse a people of something where there is no wrong doing according to scripture. According the man made trinity doctrine it's very damaging and I'm fine with that as I aim to please Jehovah and not man's created doctrines.

The following is a New World corruption of what the Bible says
"Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, did not even consider the idea of trying to be equal to God." Philippians 2:5, 6

The King James reads as follows Philippians 2:5-6
King James Version
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

JESUS who is of a godly form didn't regard it usurping to be GOD's equal. It the same with A god vs. GOD, when in fact the Bible implies and clearly states that there is ONLY ONE god. There are no other TRUE gods. So CHRIST is either ONE with the FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT as GOD or CHRIST is not GOD. But HE cannot be both. And a god cannot save anyone. So, it's JW's doctrine that is inferior and not the Lord JESUS CHRIST ---- EMMANUEL (GOD with us).

Most translations put it this way, "though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped."

If Jesus was equal to God there would be no reason for Paul to write that sentence.

The Bible is superior to the man-made trinity doctrine. Jesus is NEVER referred to as the True God in the Bible.

Do you believe JESUS was equal with GOD? If not, that is why Paul wrote what he wrote and it's the HOLY SPIRIT that gives to the saved the proper understanding. JESUS didn't empty HIMSELF and come to earth as a servant to gain anything for HIMSELF. HIS power was already assured and the love HE shared with the FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT is eternal and without malice towards the other two persons of the TRINITY. In the name of the FATHER the SON and the HOLY SPIRIT, forever AMEN.

How can Jesus ever need to gain anything? If he is God wouldn't he already have everything? How can anyone be assured power that is supposed to be equal to the other parts already? The trinity doctrine has more holes in it than a sponge.

I think that you are confused. CHRIST came to save that which was lost. The doctrine of the TRINITY has far less holes than the views and opinions of the JWs.

[LittleNipper]

But it also says {snip: did not ask what it also said} .

You have not answered the question. (Well move on to what it also says later, but first let's take the clause (part of the sentence) that uses the verb we are most interested in ---> "to subject")

So... Let me ask again my question for you is: WHO in your opinion is Paul refering to as "THE ONE" in this verse ?

The ONE is the FATHER of course. But it says that the ONE placed EVERYTHING in subjection to HIM (who is CHRIST of course). Everything doesn't leave any room for exceptions, now does it.

It also says that it is with the exception of the One who placed all things under the Son's feet (I
Corinth. 15:27), so yes, there is room for exceptions.

Then---"when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone." (I Corinth. 15:28)

I think these verses explain themselves. There is room for exceptions, AND Christ will always be in subjection to God, the Father.

The eternal order has been, is now, and forever will be: FATHER, SON, and HOLY SPIRIT. Within that DIVINE order, there is PERFECT EQUALITY among the three persons of the TRINITY. Each person in the GODHEAD, however, has an eternal role to play. In very human terms, which I use reverently, God the Father has delegated tasks to HIS well-beloved SON, with whom HE is well pleased (see Matthew 3:17; 17:5; Mark 1:11; 9:7; Luke 3:22; 9.35; and 2 Peter 1:17).

The Father delegates. The Father approves. Therefore the Father is superior to the Son, and Jesus himself said this. "The Father is greater than I am," he said (John 14:28). And that didn't just mean while he was on Earth. In heaven it is the same for Jesus. "I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God," Paul says at I Corinthians 11:3, when Christ returned to heaven.

Who is God? Not a trinity but ONE Person. Jesus said to his Father: "YOU are the only true God." (John 17:3) Paul wrote to the Corinthians also: "There is actually to us one God, the FATHER, out of whom all things are." (I Corinthians 8:6)

The Bible NEVER says that GOD is ONE PERSON. The Bible even uses the term US. Let US create man in OUR image. As for John 17:3 This can be used in two ways: One which is that the FATHER is the only true GOD in a unique sense, and secondly that HE is partially identical to the only true God which is TRIUNE thus HE is the only true God, as is JESUS and the HOLY SPIRIT. When JESUS speaks of HIS FATHER being greater than HIMSELF, JESUS is always in HIS incarnate form after HE emptied HIMSELF to dwell among humanity...

Throughout the Bible it is evident that God is ONE PERSON. "Hear O Israel: YHWH our God is ONE YHWH." (Deut.6:4) God is YHWH and YHWH alone.

When God said "Let us make man in our image," He was undoubtedly speaking to the Son, but that doesn't mean that the Son is also God. How do you get the Trinity out of that? The Father is speaking to His Son who is not described as being also God. Father and Son are having a conversation, with the Father calling all the shots. YHWH spoke to His Son about making humans. It was YHWH's idea. Just as Jesus said later: "I came to do my Father's will and not my own." (John 4:34; John 5:30)

ONLY GOD has the capacity to create from nothing. The Bible doesn't call GOD one PERSON. And I do not believe for one moment that GOD would be the sort to create another being to be tortured and hung on a cross. HE would take it upon HIMSELF --- that is unless GOD is three beings working together and are entirely connected. But you don't seem to be able to accept this.

I showed you that the Bible calls the Father the one true God. He is not a God of three individuals that somehow are the same.

God didn't create another creature to be tortured and die. Jesus was created billions of years before Adam made his unwise decision to go against God.

God is too magnificent to come to the earth Himself. I posted IKings 8:27 to show that the Bible says that even the heaven of the heavens cannot contain Him. He had to find a Person who would be willing to go to the earth and save mankind. He sent His best---His Son. If you read the scriptures you would see why this was done. (Romans 5:12-21) Jesus became a MAN, just as Adam was. He died as a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins. God couldn't have done it Himself because (1) He is too all-encompassing in the universe, (2) He cannot die, (3) If He were to die, who would raise God back to life? The Scripture says that God raised up Jesus from death. So He couldn't have been the One to die.

I Corinthians 8:6 actually says ---- "yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live." You should realize that when the original text of the Bible was written, there was no punctuation. And there IS one GOD (one FATHER, one Lord JESUS CHRIST, and one HOLY SPIRIT). Three beings in one essence we call GOD. CHRIST emptied HIMSELF and took on a human form leaving the FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT in heaven. JESUS CHRIST even told HIS disciples that HE had to return to the FATHER in order that the HOLY SPIRIT/COMFORTOR could be sent down to us. You may wish to reread a reasonable translation of the Bible without any JW organizational influence. And YES, Satan is the author of CONFUSION, and Satan doesn't wish CHRIST to receive the credit HE fully deserves. And the HOLY SPIRIT reveals CHRIST and rejecting the HOLY SPIRT's revelation is the unpardonable sin.