Did Adam make the right choice?

Revelations won · Post by **Revelations won** » Sun Feb 19, 2023 8:14 am

Did Adam make the right choice?

Did Adam make the right choice in partaking of the fruit from the tree of knowledge and should we be grateful to him and give due respect and honor our first earthly parents?

2. Did Adam’s choice prohibit anyone from receiving ALL that our Father in heaven has ever promised us pertaining to our eternal destiny?

Kind regards,
RW

Post by **The Tanager** » Fri Feb 24, 2023 10:00 pm

Revelations won wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 9:07 amYour above question is of extreme importance, the magnitude is almost overwhelming in it’s height and depth, width and scope!

You certainly place a huge burden on me to declare the reasons and hope that is in me. I stated in the above post 16 points. I will therefore post in individual posts one at a time.

Thanks for sharing, RW. It may be helpful for me to respond to each point before you move on to the next one as well.

1. Adam and Eve were like the rest of us and were as the scriptures attest, spirit children of God, our Eternal Father who is indeed the father of all his spirit children.

Why do you say “spirit children”? Are you distinguishing spirit children from humans? If so, why is Num 16:22; 27:16 and Heb 12:9 speaking of “spirit bodies” and not humans?

I’m really not sure of the connection you are making with the other passages to this point, but maybe that will become clearer.

Revelations won · Post by **Revelations won** » Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:57 am

Dear Tanager,

Thank you for your response. I agree with you that it would be a good idea to first respond to your questions before moving to point number 2.

I did some editing to help clarify my response. I will insert a portion at the end of my earlier post which may help you to understand and clarify the relation of our spirit bodies with our bodies of flesh and blood.

If you ned further explanation please advise. I will here insert the edited portion of my earlier post and hope that will give you a better understanding.

"The forgoing clearly establishes the point that God the Father is the Divine Father who has fathered our spirit bodies. In other words we all received at that point in our eternal progression spirit bodies. This obviously also includes Adam and Eve and of course Jesus Christ (Jehovah). Our soul as we possess it today exists of a spirit body which, is now clothed with of a body of flesh and bone co-created by mortal parents. This corporeal body is a tangible body which houses our spirit body. At death these two bodies are separated temporarily and again reunited eternally by the mighty power of the resurrection provided by the atonement of Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ is literally our elder brother and is indeed the first born with a spirit body just as we are. Adam and Eve are likewise indeed spirit children of a loving Heavenly Father, for the above scriptures clearly establish the fact that God the Father is literally the father of ALL FLESH.

Jesus Christ alone is additionally legitimately sired by God the Father and stands in his unique position as “the only begotten Son of God in the flesh”.

Kind regards,
RW

Post by **The Tanager** » Mon Feb 27, 2023 3:45 pm

[Replying to Revelations won in post #22]

Thank you for that clarification. I think the verses I mentioned (from your support for #1) do speak of us as spirits and so, I agree we are “spirit children of God,” although we seem to mean different things by that. I think we can move on to your second point:

2. Each of us as spirit children of divine parents received spirit bodies and in heaven were on our mission to grow and become prepared to receive at our appointed time physical bodies of flesh and bone.

What is your support for this belief?

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:25 pm

Revelations won wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 9:07 am
The forgoing clearly establishes the point that God the Father is the Divine Father who has fathered our spirit bodies. In other words we all received at that point in our eternal progression spirit bodies. This obviously also includes Adam and Eve and of course Jesus Christ (Jehovah).

No the bible is clear; there are either a spirit bodies OR a physical (flesh and blood) ones; nowhere does scripture refer to a combination of the two types of bodies (1 Cor 15:44). There is no scripture that says humans have a spirit BODY inside their physical ones.

Revelations won wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:10 pm
1. Adam and Eve were like the rest of us and were as the scriptures attest, spirit children of God, our Eternal Father who is indeed the father of all his spirit children.

Emphasis MINE

I'd probably disagree with the above as well but to be sure I would need a definition of what "spirit children" are as opposed to plain "children if God". If a spirit child of God is defined as an intelligent being created with a spirit body then I would disagree, since Adam is classified as a "Son of God" but he was created from the dust of the ground, evidently a reference to his being created with a physical flesh and blood body (not a spirit one).

JW

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:32 pm

Revelations won wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:10 pm

2. Each of us ... received spirit bodies and in heaven were on our mission to grow and become prepared to receive at our appointed time physical bodies of flesh and bone.

No. Only Jesus had a prehuman existence (John 3:13). So Adam and Eve were not initially created in spirit bodies in heaven.

Angels are referred to as "sons of God" and it seems evident they were never destined to live in physical bodies on the earth (Jude 1:6). So individuals created with spirit bodies are not destined to "graduate" to living in physical ones.

JW

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Revelations won · Post by **Revelations won** » Sat Mar 04, 2023 8:28 am

Dear Brightfame 52

To all respondents I quote Brightfame 52's Post # 13:

Re: Did Adam make the right choice?
Report Reply Quote Thanks Post #13
Post by Brightfame52 » Mon Feb 20, 2023 7:31 am

[Replying to Revelations won in post #1]

Yes Adam and Eve made the right choice, the choice God had purposed that they would make, it was in accordance with His Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus before the world began Eph 3:11

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Adam and Eve were Created for Christ and this Purpose Col 1:15-18

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

To all respondents I think the Brightfame 52 in his post # 13 brought out some very well thought out and valid points regarding the choices Adam and
eve made. I hope that all would review that post and give due consideration.

Kind regards,
RW

Revelations won · Post by **Revelations won** » Sat Mar 04, 2023 9:53 am

Dear JW,

“JW wrote: “Revelations won wrote: ↑
Fri Feb 24, 2023 9:07 am

The forgoing clearly establishes the point that God the Father is the Divine Father who has fathered our spirit bodies. In other words we all received at that point in our eternal progression spirit bodies. This obviously also includes Adam and Eve and of course Jesus Christ (Jehovah).
No the bible is clear; there are either a spirit bodies OR a physical (flesh and blood) ones; nowhere does scripture refer to a combination of the two types of bodies (1 Cor 15:44). There is no scripture that says humans have a spirit BODY inside their physical ones.

Revelations won wrote: ↑
Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:10 pm

1. Adam and Eve were like the rest of us and were as the scriptures attest, spirit children of God, our Eternal Father who is indeed the father of all his spirit children.
Emphasis MINE

I'd probably disagree with the above as well but to be sure I would need a definition of what "spirit children" are as opposed to plain "children if God". If a spirit child of God is defined as an intelligent being created with a spirit body then I would disagree, since Adam is classified as a "Son of God" but he was created from the dust of the ground, evidently a reference to his being created with a physical flesh and blood body (not a spirit one).

JW

My response:

Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Ecclesiasttes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it

Our physical body on death returns to the earth as stated.

Our spirit body returns to God who give it. It is self evident that our spirit body could not return unto God unless it dwelt in his presence in heaven before.

Matthew 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

Mark 14:38 Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.

Act 23:9 And there arose a great cry: and the scribes that were of the Pharisees' part arose, and strove, saying, We find no evil in this man: but if a spirit or an angel hath spoken to him, let us not fight against God.

In the below teachings of the Apostle Paul he makes it very clear that should is a composite of our spirit and our body of flesh.

1 Corinthians 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Hebrews 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

We should so observe what the Apostle Peter taught regarding Christ being put to death in the flesh, but quickened boy the spirit. His mortal body was put to death, but his spirit went and preached repentance unto the spirits in prison who were disobedient in the days of Noah. This clearly shows the our spirit body and our physical bodies are two separate bodies which are rejoined permanently after the resurrection.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1 Peter 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Our spirit bodies and physical bodies though temporarily were separated at death are reunited by the resurrection permanently as taught in the following:

2 Nephi 9:6 For as death hath passed upon all men, to fulfil the merciful plan of the great Creator, there must needs be a power of resurrection, and the resurrection must needs come unto man by reason of the fall; and the fall came by reason of
transgression; and because man became fallen they were cut off from the presence of the Lord.

7 Wherefore, it must needs be an infinite atonement—save it should be an infinite atonement this corruption could not put on incorruption. Wherefore, the first judgment which came upon man must needs have remained to an endless duration. And if so, this flesh must have laid down to rot and to crumble to its mother earth, to rise no more.

8 O the wisdom of God, his mercy and grace! For behold, if the flesh should rise no more our spirits must become subject to that angel who fell from before the presence of the Eternal God, and became the devil, to rise no more.

9 And our spirits must have become alike unto him, and we become devils, angels to a devil, to be shut out from the presence of our God, and to remain with the father of lies, in misery, like unto himself; yea, to that being who beguiled our first parents, who transformeth himself nigh unto an angel of light, and stirreth up the children of men unto secret combinations of murder and all manner of secret works of darkness.

10 O how great the goodness of our God, who prepareth a way for our escape from the grasp of this awful monster; yea, that monster, death and hell, which I call the death of the body, and also the death of the spirit.

11 And because of the way of deliverance of our God, the Holy One of Israel, this death, of which I have spoken, which is the temporal, shall deliver up its dead; which death is the grave.

12 And this death of which I have spoken, which is the spiritual death, shall deliver up its dead; which spiritual death is hell; wherefore, death and hell must deliver up their dead, and hell must deliver up its captive spirits, and the grave must deliver up its captive bodies, and the bodies and the spirits of men will be restored one to the other; and it is by the power of the resurrection of the Holy One of Israel.

13 O how great the plan of our God! For on the other hand, the paradise of God must deliver up the spirits of the righteous, and the grave deliver up the body of the righteous; and the spirit and the body is restored to itself again, and all men become incorruptible, and immortal, and they are living souls, having a perfect knowledge like unto us in the flesh, save it be that our knowledge shall be perfect.

Also consider what we are taught in the book of Psalms.

Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Hosea 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

Zechariah 12:1The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Hosea 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

So, JW the above makes it very clear that we are the offspring of heavenly parents.

From your other posts on this website you have made it very clear that you reject all latter day revelation, or revelation from the Holy Ghost, prophecy and prophets en total even though the Bible is very clear that such edification to to be revealed in our day.

Considering your posture it is very clear that by your own statements, all the interpretations of scripture by the JW’s are strictly “private interpretations” determined by man’s deductive reasoning.

As the scriptures state: “We are the sons of the living God.”

We are born as spirit children of God our Father. Added to our spirit bodies is our physical bodies which is the co-creation gift and power granted to man.

Yes our physical bodies may return to the dust, but our spirit bodies do not die at death as witnessed in the above scriptures.

Upon death our sprit bodies are very much alive as shown when Christ himself between his death and resurrection went and preached to those who disobedient in the days of Noah.

You seem to fail to understand the fact that the universal resurrection is the immortal re-union of our physical bodies with our spirit bodies.

As the scriptures attest: “For what man knoweth the things of a man save the spirit of man which is in him, even so the things of God knoweth no man but the spirit of God.”

You have rejected the comforter (the holy Ghost) which is given of God to man, which gift is given that we may learn all things.

That is your choice, not mine.

Kind regards,
RW

Post by **The Tanager** » Sat Mar 04, 2023 11:39 am

[Replying to Revelations won in post #26]

What in Ephesians 3:11 and Col 1:15-18 speaks about Adam and Eve's choice in relation to the eternal purpose?

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Mon Mar 06, 2023 4:05 am

Revelations won wrote: ↑Sat Mar 04, 2023 9:53 am

Yes our physical bodies may return to the dust, but our spirit bodies do not die at death as witnessed in the above scriptures.

None of those scriptures speak of a spirit BODY returning to God. Further you seem to be confusing the following

- spirit BODIES : the form that intelligent beings who live in heaven have - 1 Cor 15:44

- spirits (plural) : Angels / demons : intelligent spirit being (individuals with spirit BODIES) - 1 Peter 3:19

- [spirit] Sons of God: Angels / intelligent spirit creatures - Act 23:9 , Hebrews 12:9 , 1 Peter 3:18

- [HUMAN] Sons of God: flesh and blood humans that do God's will on earth - Psalms 82:6 Hosea 1:10, Acts 17:28

- God's spirit : God's active force

- our spirit (singular): God's " lifeforce " the power hat animates all living things ; also described as "the breath of life" - Job 32:8 ; Ecclesiasttes 12:7 James 2:26, Zechariah 12:1

- or (depending on context) a mental attitude - Matthew 26:41, Mark 14:38 1 Corinthians 6:20