Born from above!

[Bobcat]

Jesus says you must be born from above.

Scripture says he who is born from above is from heaven.

Since man does not really know where heaven is how can he know who comes from heaven or who is from above?

John 3:3
Jesus answered him, "Very truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above."

John 3:7
7 Do not be astonished that I said to you, "You must be born from above”.


John 3:31
31 The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks about earthly things. The one who comes from heaven is above all.

So, are you born from above? Are you from heaven?

[Miles]

Jesus says you must be born from above.

Scripture says he who is born from above is from heaven.

Since man does not really know where heaven is how can he know who comes from heaven or who is from above?

John 3:3
Jesus answered him, "Very truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above."

John 3:7
7 Do not be astonished that I said to you, "You must be born from above”.


John 3:31
31 The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks about earthly things. The one who comes from heaven is above all.

So, are you born from above? Are you from heaven?

Checking John 3:7, only 27% of the Bibles I checked use "born from above.” All the others use "born again," or "born anew."

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[TRANSPONDER]

Yes. I pretty much translated that as 'converted' right away. it is, I strongly suspect a feeling of having Got it, seen the truth, solved the puzzle and cracked it and it is a wonderful feeling of release and relief. I know, because i am sure I have experienced it as a kind of deconversion feeling.

It seems almost uncanny or mystical, like ideas popping apparently out of nowhere. No wonder so many have claimed ideas that appeared almost fully formed in the head rather than being painfully and painstaking worked out on paper. had come from above, too.

Sso the term is all of a piece with the never - ending evidence that the religious believer is convinced that the truth is being poured into their heads by God, which is why they reject even hard evidence as 'opinion' while professing any excuse that pops into their head as True until (of course) we not only prove it but get them to accept it, which they will never do, as they operate on Faith.

It is the perfect system for perpetuating self - delusion and of course does not come down 'from above' as the persistent mythical image of God being 'Up There'is one that we all know is false so that the believers protest when unbelievers mock the idea.

[Bobcat]

[Replying to Miles in post #2]

From above is used for that word far more than born again. People who belong to the world need it to say born again because they can’t understand it in a heavenly way.

Notice Strongs G509 translation has from above in the number one spot so it is not out of line to use it in this case especially since John 3:31 uses it that way also.

The KJV translates Strong's G509 in the following manner: from above (5x), top (3x), again (2x), from the first (1x), from the beginning (1x), not translated (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
from above, from a higher place
of things which come from heaven or God
from the first, from the beginning, from the very first
anew, over again
Strong’s Definitions [?]

Mat 27:51
And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top G509 to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
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Unchecked Copy Box Mar 15:38
And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top G509 to the bottom.
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Unchecked Copy Box Luk 1:3
It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, G509 to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,
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Unchecked Copy Box Jhn 3:3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, G509 he cannot see the kingdom of God.
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Unchecked Copy Box Jhn 3:7
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. G509
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Unchecked Copy Box Jhn 3:31
He that cometh from above G509 is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
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Unchecked Copy Box Jhn 19:11
Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: G509 therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
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Unchecked Copy Box Jhn 19:23
Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top G509 throughout.
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Unchecked Copy Box Act 26:5
Which knew me from the beginning, G509 if they would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee.
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Unchecked Copy Box Gal 4:9
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again G509 to be in bondage?
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Unchecked Copy Box Jas 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, G509 and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
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Unchecked Copy Box Jas 3:15
This wisdom descendeth not from above, G509 but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
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Unchecked Copy Box Jas 3:17
But the wisdom that is from above G509 is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to Bobcat in post #4]

That list of quotes needs some editing before it deserves consideration. What has someone coming from heaven to do with being born again or what is evidently revelation/conversion? What has the ripping of the Temple veil to do with it? What has the conferring of earthly authority to do with it?

Pick the quotes that are relevant to the topic and then maybe your post will be worth something.

[Miles]

[Replying to Miles in post #2]

From above is used for that word far more than born again.

Checking John 3:7 in 62 Bibles.

"Born anew" appears in 9 of the Bibles
"Born from above" appears in 17 of the Bibles
"Born again" appears in 36 of the Bibles

17 is less than half of 36

People who belong to the world need it to say born again because they can’t understand it in a heavenly way.

Or perhaps they were simply taught that "born again" is the proper rendering of γεννάω ἄνωθεν and never gave the clause a second thought.

Notice Strongs G509 translation has from above in the number one spot so it is not out of line to use it in this case especially since John 3:31 uses it that way also.

The KJV translates Strong's G509 in the following manner: from above (5x), top (3x), again (2x), from the first (1x), from the beginning (1x), not translated (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
from above, from a higher place
of things which come from heaven or God
from the first, from the beginning, from the very first
anew, over again

In as much as numbers appear to be important to you don't forget that "Born from above" appears in only 27 % of the 62 Bibles I checked. And not being a Bible scholar or translator I can't say why the phrase is translated three different ways, but what is apparent is that the vast majority of scholars/translators, 73%, agree that "Born from above" is not the correct translation.

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[JehovahsWitness]

Being "born again" (born from above) is a scriptural reference to a person being chosen by God to go to heaven.

So, are you born from above?

No.

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

HEAVEN , BORN AGAIN and ... THE 144, 000

[Bobcat]

[Replying to Miles in post #6

Jesus used it as from above in other verses that show what He meant.

I don’t believe because it is translated more times a different way that that way is correct.

Those who belong to the world think like the world and speak in a worldly way but the one who comes from heaven is above all. He testifies to what he has seen and heard but nobody believes him. If they do believe they render the truth of God.

[Miles]

[Replying to Miles in post #6

Jesus used it as from above in other verses that show what He meant.

As he is also said to use "born again" rather than "Born from above" in twice as many Bibles.

John 3:3
3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

John 3:7
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’

I don’t believe because it is translated more times a different way that that way is correct.

Believe whatever you like, but the fact remains "Born from above" is not how most scholars and translators interpret what Jesus said in John3:3 and7.

Those who belong to the world think like the world and speak in a worldly way but the one who comes from heaven is above all. He testifies to what he has seen and heard but nobody believes him. If they do believe they render the truth of God.

Nice, I guess, but most scholars and translators see him saying “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” and "Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ "


Have a good day.

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[TRANSPONDER]

I just love it when people who (I have good reason to believe) regard their beliefs, Interpretations and Biblical Authorities as God -inspired (as if not, they are arguing on evidence, not Faith, as much as the materialists are) cannot agree on what a Biblical term means.

It seems to me that we have two dogmatic ideas going on here: 'born again' and 'born from above'. The thing is whether it is something the believer does to get in line with God or something God does to bring the believer in line with him. We are talking metaphorically here as surely nobody could take the term literally. It would seem to me that in order to keep the idea of Free Will afloat, #born again'has to refer to conversion, or going half -way to meet God. Now God would have to reach down from above (so to speak) to receive the conversion, but if it is unilateral; done without the willing reception of the recipient, than free will is abrogated in every conversion -case.

So 'Born again' seems to be right, even though born from above adds a bit of a comment on God's partial involvement.

Just my thoughts on the matter. I'm quite happy to let the true believers argue about what the Bible is actually saying.