Are Lies Immoral? If so, Why?

[Purple Knight]

Question for debate: Is lying inherently wrong? If so, why?

Christians believe God is perfect and that God doesn't lie. Is this simply a choice, is it necessary for us lesser beings to be able to trust, is it itself a deception, or is it an inherent part of perfection that a being should not lie?

Is it possible that lying is wrong for us, but not God, or vice-versa?

Is it uniquely or especially wrong to lie to a child? Or perhaps uniquely or especially permissible?

[boatsnguitars]

Question for debate: Is lying inherently wrong? If so, why?

Christians believe God is perfect and that God doesn't lie. Is this simply a choice, is it necessary for us lesser beings to be able to trust, is it itself a deception, or is it an inherent part of perfection that a being should not lie?

Is it possible that lying is wrong for us, but not God, or vice-versa?

Is it uniquely or especially wrong to lie to a child? Or perhaps uniquely or especially permissible?

The first class I had in Philosophy addressed this idea from a Kantian perspective. He said, "Say you promised a friend that you'd meet him at 9:00. You are 15 minutes away, and have just enough time to get there if you don't stop. On the way, you see a car veer off the road and crash. Do you stop to take care of the person, or miss your appointment?

Kant says, you can't win. You are obligated by the categorical imperative to do both. Kant believed in objective moral values based on logic.

Of course, I've learned a little since then.

So, under one moral theory you can't be completely moral with every decision, but under others you can try to choose the more moral path by weighing the relative moral values of each action or situation.

Lying, would, in my estimation fall nicely under this moral framework, since there are times that lying appears to be the more moral action.

We could judge lying under other moral frameworks, but I'll leave it at that. Under most moral theories lying is a complex and nuanced act, and deserves a more complex and nuanced treatment than "All Lie = Sin!" which is what you'll get from Divine Command Theory.
(Under Tanager's Ethical Framework, lying is Immoral, Moral, or Amoral - or all three at once or none.)

[Miles]

.

Are Lies Immoral? If so, Why?

According to Proverbs 12:22
......."Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord, but those who act faithfully are his delight."

And I would imagine that any act that god found to be an abomination would also be immoral. No?


Then there's this from Psalm 59:12
......."For the sin of their mouths, the words of their lips, let them be trapped in their pride. For the cursing and lies that they utter,"

Which, if a sin, would likely make it immoral. No?


But this is just the Bible's take on lying.

Personally, I don't go along with such stupidity because there are good lies, such as telling a dying child they're going to be fine.

Is it possible that lying is wrong for us, but not God, or vice-versa?

Oh, absolutely! And no vice-versa about it. Why? Because god has no trouble having innocent women, children, infants killed I find it just as likely that he has no trouble lying, AND considers such action to be justified. Of course I could be wrong, and god does see himself for the sadistic, lying brute that he is.


As for the "WHY?" of the immorality of our lies as god sees them, it's a given. Given as an edict from god that brooks no discussion. God says our lying is a sin and an abomination, and that''s it.

As for the morality of lies in the secular world, that's taken on a case by case basis.

.

[Purple Knight]

Kant says, you can't win. You are obligated by the categorical imperative to do both. Kant believed in objective moral values based on logic.

Of course, I've learned a little since then.

I don't believe in conflicting moral obligations, at least, certainly not the kind that are just thrust upon you. If there's no right answer, it defeats the point of a test, and likewise, if there is no moral choice, then it defeats the point of morality.

[JoeyKnothead]

Are lies immoral?

Yes, and no.

I have no problem telling the truth when it meams a murderer is taken off the streets.

I have no problem lying to help boost a child's sense of worth.

[boatsnguitars]

Kant says, you can't win. You are obligated by the categorical imperative to do both. Kant believed in objective moral values based on logic.

Of course, I've learned a little since then.

I don't believe in conflicting moral obligations, at least, certainly not the kind that are just thrust upon you. If there's no right answer, it defeats the point of a test, and likewise, if there is no moral choice, then it defeats the point of morality.

I always got the impression Kant was trying to reformulate Divine Command Theory: a sin is a sin - it's all bad, and you just have to accept the lumps of your choice.

I agree that morals seem to be of varying degrees.

[1213]

Question for debate: Is lying inherently wrong? If so, why?

I have understood lying is always wrong, because:

You shall not steal nor lie, nor deceive to one another.
Lev. 19:11

The righteous hates lying, but the wicked is odious and acts shamefully.
Pro. 13:5

[boatsnguitars]

Question for debate: Is lying inherently wrong? If so, why?

I have understood lying is always wrong, because:

You shall not steal nor lie, nor deceive to one another.
Lev. 19:11

The righteous hates lying, but the wicked is odious and acts shamefully.
Pro. 13:5

So, if Nazi's show up to the door and ask if you are hiding Jews, you wouldn't lie if you were hiding a family of Jews in your attic?

Poor Anne Frank!

It's interesting that you quote from the Bible, but you won't quote me: "Hurting someone should be avoided, and this includes lying, however, there are times that lying is the better decision especially when it is clear that it will reduce the harm in the short and long term."

Isn't that a more appropriate thing to say?

[JehovahsWitness]

Lying ...

- destroys trust
- wrecks relationships
- encourages corruption
- endangers lives
- perverts justice
...


People say we don't need a book to tell them what is right or wrong, yet here we are, debating if lying is immoral.

“Every violation of truth is not only a sort of suicide in the liar, but is a stab at the health of human society.” - Ralph Waldo Emerson

"the Devil.... is a liar and the father of the lie" - The Bible

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To learn more please go to other posts related to...

MORALS, LYING and ...BIBLICAL PROHIBITIONS

[boatsnguitars]

People say we don't need a book to tell them what is right or wrong, yet here we are, debating if lying is immoral.

Is this the book you are referring to:

Rahab: In the book of Joshua (Joshua 2:1-21), Rahab, a prostitute in the city of Jericho, hides Israelite spies and deceives the king's men who were seeking them. She does this to protect the spies and help them escape. As a result of her actions, Rahab and her family are spared when the Israelites conquer Jericho.

Midwives in Egypt: In Exodus 1:15-21, the Egyptian Pharaoh commands the Hebrew midwives, Shiphrah and Puah, to kill all the Hebrew baby boys at birth. However, they fear God and choose to disobey the Pharaoh's orders, lying to him by saying that Hebrew women give birth before they arrive. Their deception allows the Hebrew children to survive.

David and the Philistines: In 1 Samuel 27:8-12, David, who is being pursued by King Saul, seeks refuge among the Philistines. To gain their trust, he deceives them by pretending to attack Israelite settlements while secretly attacking other nations. David lies to the Philistine king, Achish, about his true intentions and loyalties.

(Not to mention: Matthew 16:28: "Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.")