Deuteronomy 25:11-12
"If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity." --Deuteronomy 25:11-12
If the unchangeable God wanted his children to enforce this law then, wouldn't He want it enforced today?
Do Any of God's Laws Expire?
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Purple Knight
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Re: Do Any of God's Laws Expire?
Post #2This is tangential and I admit it, but it boggles my mind that this happened enough for people to write about it and use a harsh punishment to forbid it.
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OnlineTRANSPONDER
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Re: Do Any of God's Laws Expire?
Post #3These have got to be man-made laws. No doubt about it. The Bible apologist can say 'God had to go along with the customs of the day'. Ok, but those are still the customs of the day and nothing from a god. Jews today just don't do it; they updated their own laws to fit modern morality, which has moved on.
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boatsnguitars
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Re: Do Any of God's Laws Expire?
Post #4"man" being the operative word in this case. It's funny, tho, I guess grabbing women by the.... well, let's just say, seems all men considered themselves famous back then.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:33 pm These have got to be man-made laws. No doubt about it. The Bible apologist can say 'God had to go along with the customs of the day'. Ok, but those are still the customs of the day and nothing from a god. Jews today just don't do it; they updated their own laws to fit modern morality, which has moved on.
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm
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OnlineTRANSPONDER
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Re: Do Any of God's Laws Expire?
Post #6Human decency? We are no longer bronze age barbarians, though it appears that, even today, some would prefer us to be. It is one more very good reason to reject Christian fundamentalism.
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JehovahsWitness
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Re: Do Any of God's Laws Expire?
Post #7Yes, the bible indicates God's laws can "expire".
ROMANS 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth - KJV
ABOLISHMENT OF THE MOSAIC LAW
RELATED POSTS
# Why did the Mosaic Law propose punishing women with having her hand cut off
if she'd grabbed a man's genitals during a conflict (Deuteronomy 25:11-12) ?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 99#p822599
ROMANS 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth - KJV
ABOLISHMENT OF THE MOSAIC LAW
Does the bible say the Mosaic law has been "abolished"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 76#p918176
Are Christians under the Mosaic law?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 76#p950776
Mat 5:17 : Did Christ indicate that his death would signal the end of the Jewish obligation to obey the Mosaic law?
viewtopic.php?p=950778#p950778
RELATED POSTS
# Why did the Mosaic Law propose punishing women with having her hand cut off
if she'd grabbed a man's genitals during a conflict (Deuteronomy 25:11-12) ?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 99#p822599
To learn more please go to other posts related to ...
BIBLICAL LAW, THE MOSAIC LAW COVENANT and ...THE ABRAHAMIC CONVENANT
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Jun 13, 2023 11:24 am, edited 3 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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JehovahsWitness
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Re: Do Any of God's Laws Expire?
Post #8Laws are not only given in reaction to behaviours ; they can be issued to express values - in other words legislation can communicate what is considered, right and wrong— and that can in turn can influence behaviour. So even if there is no record of someone doing something, a law can convey that that certain principles should not be violated. In this case incapacitating a man in a way that can permanently impair his power to reproduce , for anything short of self defense, is unethical.Purple Knight wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:29 pm... it boggles my mind that this happened enough for people to write about it ...
JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Clownboat
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Re: Do Any of God's Laws Expire?
Post #9This god concept is really interested as to what we do with our private parts.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 11:18 amLaws are not only given in reaction to behaviours ; they can be issued to express values - in other words legislation can communicate what is considered, right and wrong— and that can in turn can influence behaviour. So even if there is no record of someone doing something, a law can convey that that certain principles should not be violated. In this case incapacitating a man in a way that can permanently impair his power to reproduce , for anything short of self defense, is unethical.Purple Knight wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:29 pm... it boggles my mind that this happened enough for people to write about it ...
JW
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It's really odd to then look at the animal kingdom (the claimed gods creation) and then see it there. No one claims it needs to make sense though. Only faith is required it seems.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.
I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU
It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco
If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb
I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU
It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco
If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb
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OnlineTRANSPONDER
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Re: Do Any of God's Laws Expire?
Post #10A bit of online reading suggests that God's Laws are immutable - until God says they are changed. And yet, it is odd, that God puts Laws in place that He will bin when it suits him. Why have Laws for His Chosen People and then suddenly they aren't his laws or his people anymore? Just when Paul (for reasons of his own) takes it to the gentiles. I'd say it's pretty plain what has happened - Paul reformed Judaianity to suit the gentiles,tossing out God's laws that the Gentiles would not accept, replacing it with the general 'play nice' instinct (ascribed to God) and finding that didn't actually work. Because evolved instincts are not intended to be moral; they are intended to enable survival (1)
So what has happened is that human moral codes have been applied with God taking the credit and man taking the blame. It's a big con and we really know better now, or we should. The believer can still (like Judaism, in fact) build a society using secular and rational methods of arranging society and its' ethics, and getting rid of autocratic rule, slavery, gender inequality and in my time, the hostility towards Same Sex - which, hetero though I certainly am, I opposed its' criminalisation in the 70's because it was wrong to do so. Now the ones peering through the bars are the ones that hunted down gays, got them sacked and jailed.
And they can do the moral updates within their religion if they wish, and welcome, so long as they don't try to sell it to me. But the anomaly remains that there is a misguided religious relating back to old laws that should have long gone, either under the New Covenant or through the enlightenment. Trying to make the tail of the NT wag the dog of humanist morality is bad enough; the fundamentalists who try to wag it with the vestigial tail of the OT have nothing useful to tell us, and yet they are are still waving the defunct old book at us as though it was still relevant.
(1) which is why Believers keep on about Darwin = Eugenics. They do not Get it: that evolution is true, but it is not moral. They suppose that Darwinism should be as perfectly moral as the Bible, which isn't too bright as a moral guide anyway. Darwinism is what made us as we are, but morals and ethics is what we aspire to be.
So what has happened is that human moral codes have been applied with God taking the credit and man taking the blame. It's a big con and we really know better now, or we should. The believer can still (like Judaism, in fact) build a society using secular and rational methods of arranging society and its' ethics, and getting rid of autocratic rule, slavery, gender inequality and in my time, the hostility towards Same Sex - which, hetero though I certainly am, I opposed its' criminalisation in the 70's because it was wrong to do so. Now the ones peering through the bars are the ones that hunted down gays, got them sacked and jailed.
And they can do the moral updates within their religion if they wish, and welcome, so long as they don't try to sell it to me. But the anomaly remains that there is a misguided religious relating back to old laws that should have long gone, either under the New Covenant or through the enlightenment. Trying to make the tail of the NT wag the dog of humanist morality is bad enough; the fundamentalists who try to wag it with the vestigial tail of the OT have nothing useful to tell us, and yet they are are still waving the defunct old book at us as though it was still relevant.
(1) which is why Believers keep on about Darwin = Eugenics. They do not Get it: that evolution is true, but it is not moral. They suppose that Darwinism should be as perfectly moral as the Bible, which isn't too bright as a moral guide anyway. Darwinism is what made us as we are, but morals and ethics is what we aspire to be.
