Greetings to all,
It is interesting to see the many and varied suppositions, guesses, speculations, calculations and deductive conclusions that so many arrive at when the clear fact is that all of these are based on fragmentary evidence or the private interpretation of others. Note: this was a topic originally discussed in the Apologetics forum.
Is it not clearly time for all to put away all these supported conception theories? God does not always give us a complete account of things, but does give us understanding based on our spiritual preparedness. (The last time I checked it appears that God usually gives us the answers needed line upon line and precept upon precept.) They vast majority have placed their own self determination,ined "gag order" upon themselves and have by their own choice refused to receive further revelation from God. With this man made approach, man has therefore closed the window of knowledge which could otherwise be obtained only by recvelation from God.
Therefore man is left to his own deductive "private" interpretation and reasoning by this approach which results in the "blind leading the blind" quagmire.
The Jewish leaders of the day falsely accused Christ of being a "bastard child " born out of wedlock. Many today also hold to this same self imposed blind conclusion.
My position is clearly that "Jesus Christ is the only legitimate son of God born of the Father in the flesh." Having said that, it is obvious that "Mary is first and foremost the wife of God the father." For anyone to argue otherwise one would also place themselves in the same "private interpretation" which the the Jewish leaders placed themselves.
Kind regards,
RW
The Virgin Birth
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Re: The Virgin Birth
Post #11Dear Eddie Ramos,
Thank you for your responses. I have quote your response below and will insert my replies in bold print in various places of your response.
You said:
“I don´t seem to receive any notification of your (or anyone's) reply unless you quote me in your reply (I don´t know how to change that setting). This is why I totally missed your response. Now, before I answer your question, I do hope that wherevever you are taking this question, that you have taken into consideration my previous responses to your other questions. Too often biblical answers are ignored for the sake isolating a particular doctrine and I'd prefer not to do that in every thread.
While the Godhead is past our finite understanding, all we can conclude is based on the information God uses to describe His deity. One of the ways God has decided to reveal His deity is in the form of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit, yet these three are one God. The Son, therefore, is said to have been begotten of the Father, so the answer to your question is, yes, Jesus Christ is the legitimate Son of God the Father. But we must always keep in mind that we (as finite fallen human beings) cannot take our same limitations and apply them to our inifinite creator, God. Like the fact that human conception requires intimacy between a male and a female. But God is not limited in such ways, as I will show below.
My response:
I will make the following statement for you consideration:
“It Requires revelation to perceive revelation”
2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Matthew 7: 7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Luke 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
22
All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
You said “While the Godhead is past our finite understanding” and I say otherwise that according to the above scriptures only by personal revelation all can know and comprehend the Godhead for God is no respecter of persons.
The JW’s for example will never accept and understand the Godhead for by their admitted “private interpretation of scripture” they not only fail to recognize the divinity of Jesus Christ , but also fail to understand that Jehovah and Jesus Christ are one and the same. They also fail to recognize that Jehovah is the first born spirit son of the most high God even Eloheim.
In fact it is abundantly clear that the Bible is self evident that it contains only a portion of the revelations of God to man.
Psalm 2:7–9 (KJV 1900)
7 I will declare the decree:
The LORD hath said unto me (unto Christ), Thou art my Son;
This day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me,
And I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance,
And the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron;
Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.
As we'll see, Psalm 2:7 is a prophecy of Christ's resurrection from the dead, because raising from the dead is like being born again.
My response:
Yes, Psalm 2 is indeed a Messianic psalm which points out that the heathen shall rage against the Lord’s anointed. Also this psalm speaks of his son whom he has begotten.
Ephesians 2:5 (KJV 1900)
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us (made us alive; saved us) together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
My response:
I would agree that according to Ephesians 2 we are saved by grace through faith—and that the Blood of Christ saves both Jew and Gentile alike. The chapter also makes it very clear that his church is built upon the foundation of APOSTLES AND PROPHETS.
1 Peter 1:3 (KJV 1900)
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again (born again) unto a lively hope by (meaning, through) the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
My response:
Yes it is very clear that according to Peter that the trial of our faith precedes salvation.
Romans 6:4–5 (KJV 1900)
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life (this is eternal life through salvation). 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Now, here is the historical fulfilment of Psalm 2:7:
Acts 13:32–33 (KJV 1900)
And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
So, again, the rainsing from the dead is being equated with having been begotten of God, thus being declared to be His Son. This is also exactly the way salvation worked in the life of every elect. We became sons the moment we (having been dead in sins) were raised to spiritual life.
But, Christ's death, burial and resurrection, in order to be become the Son of God, was a historical fulfilment. I point this out because what most people miss is the fact that even before Christ was born of a virgin, he was declared to be the Son of God. Yet as I mentioned earlier, the prerequisite for being called a Son was to raise from the dead.
Romans 1:3–4 (KJV 1900)
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by (meaning, through) the resurrection from the dead:
This then raises a question. How then could Jesus be called the Son of God before dying on the cross and raising again? The answer is because Christ died and rose again to make payment for sins before the world began, and not at the cross.
My response:
I would give the following clarification as follows. I refer to God the father—Elohim/Eloheim
All should clearly understand from the scriptures that we all are spirit children of God the father including Jesus Christ who is the first born spirit child of God.
Numbers 16:22 And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?
Numbers 27:16 Let the LORD, the God of the spirits of all flesh, set a man over the congregation,
Malachi2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?
Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
We all are first spirit children of the most high God. Additionally Jesus Christ is not only a spirit child of God but he has the divine distinction of being the only begotten son of God in the flesh with a divine mission of fulfilling the the requirements of the atonement and subsequent resurrection.
Matthew 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
It is interesting to see and observe that this mighty testimony of Peter was obtained only by revelation.
Luke 2:And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
Christs above beautiful testimony regarding his acknowledgment that he was indeed the only begotten in the flesh son of God the father.
John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
What greater witness can we ask than the personal witness of God the Father?
Hebrews 4:3 (KJV 1900)
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
This is why God called him His Son long before the New Testament resurrection.
My response:
The work of foreordaining Christ before the foundation of the world was laid was set in motion.
There was of necessity the need for Christ to yet perform the work of the atonement and resurrection that was also necessary. If Christ had failed in this mighty work all would have been lost.
Hebrew 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Luke 1:35 (KJV 1900)
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
"Declared to be the Son of God...BY the resurrection from the dead" (Rom 1:4).
Matthew 3:17 (KJV 1900)
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
"Declared to be the Son of God...BY the resurrection from the dead" (Rom 1:4).
I hope you can see the mistake of thinking that just being physically born of a woman in order to fulfill prophecy is what allowed Christ to be declared to be the Son of God, because it wasn't. His resurrection from the dead is what brought about the relationship of Father and Son, as it did with every elect of God.”
My response:
Actually the verse really reads:
Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Kind regards,
RW
Thank you for your responses. I have quote your response below and will insert my replies in bold print in various places of your response.
You said:
“I don´t seem to receive any notification of your (or anyone's) reply unless you quote me in your reply (I don´t know how to change that setting). This is why I totally missed your response. Now, before I answer your question, I do hope that wherevever you are taking this question, that you have taken into consideration my previous responses to your other questions. Too often biblical answers are ignored for the sake isolating a particular doctrine and I'd prefer not to do that in every thread.
While the Godhead is past our finite understanding, all we can conclude is based on the information God uses to describe His deity. One of the ways God has decided to reveal His deity is in the form of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit, yet these three are one God. The Son, therefore, is said to have been begotten of the Father, so the answer to your question is, yes, Jesus Christ is the legitimate Son of God the Father. But we must always keep in mind that we (as finite fallen human beings) cannot take our same limitations and apply them to our inifinite creator, God. Like the fact that human conception requires intimacy between a male and a female. But God is not limited in such ways, as I will show below.
My response:
I will make the following statement for you consideration:
“It Requires revelation to perceive revelation”
2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Matthew 7: 7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Luke 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
22
All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
You said “While the Godhead is past our finite understanding” and I say otherwise that according to the above scriptures only by personal revelation all can know and comprehend the Godhead for God is no respecter of persons.
The JW’s for example will never accept and understand the Godhead for by their admitted “private interpretation of scripture” they not only fail to recognize the divinity of Jesus Christ , but also fail to understand that Jehovah and Jesus Christ are one and the same. They also fail to recognize that Jehovah is the first born spirit son of the most high God even Eloheim.
In fact it is abundantly clear that the Bible is self evident that it contains only a portion of the revelations of God to man.
Psalm 2:7–9 (KJV 1900)
7 I will declare the decree:
The LORD hath said unto me (unto Christ), Thou art my Son;
This day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me,
And I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance,
And the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron;
Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.
As we'll see, Psalm 2:7 is a prophecy of Christ's resurrection from the dead, because raising from the dead is like being born again.
My response:
Yes, Psalm 2 is indeed a Messianic psalm which points out that the heathen shall rage against the Lord’s anointed. Also this psalm speaks of his son whom he has begotten.
Ephesians 2:5 (KJV 1900)
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us (made us alive; saved us) together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
My response:
I would agree that according to Ephesians 2 we are saved by grace through faith—and that the Blood of Christ saves both Jew and Gentile alike. The chapter also makes it very clear that his church is built upon the foundation of APOSTLES AND PROPHETS.
1 Peter 1:3 (KJV 1900)
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again (born again) unto a lively hope by (meaning, through) the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
My response:
Yes it is very clear that according to Peter that the trial of our faith precedes salvation.
Romans 6:4–5 (KJV 1900)
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life (this is eternal life through salvation). 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Now, here is the historical fulfilment of Psalm 2:7:
Acts 13:32–33 (KJV 1900)
And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
So, again, the rainsing from the dead is being equated with having been begotten of God, thus being declared to be His Son. This is also exactly the way salvation worked in the life of every elect. We became sons the moment we (having been dead in sins) were raised to spiritual life.
But, Christ's death, burial and resurrection, in order to be become the Son of God, was a historical fulfilment. I point this out because what most people miss is the fact that even before Christ was born of a virgin, he was declared to be the Son of God. Yet as I mentioned earlier, the prerequisite for being called a Son was to raise from the dead.
Romans 1:3–4 (KJV 1900)
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by (meaning, through) the resurrection from the dead:
This then raises a question. How then could Jesus be called the Son of God before dying on the cross and raising again? The answer is because Christ died and rose again to make payment for sins before the world began, and not at the cross.
My response:
I would give the following clarification as follows. I refer to God the father—Elohim/Eloheim
All should clearly understand from the scriptures that we all are spirit children of God the father including Jesus Christ who is the first born spirit child of God.
Numbers 16:22 And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?
Numbers 27:16 Let the LORD, the God of the spirits of all flesh, set a man over the congregation,
Malachi2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?
Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
We all are first spirit children of the most high God. Additionally Jesus Christ is not only a spirit child of God but he has the divine distinction of being the only begotten son of God in the flesh with a divine mission of fulfilling the the requirements of the atonement and subsequent resurrection.
Matthew 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
It is interesting to see and observe that this mighty testimony of Peter was obtained only by revelation.
Luke 2:And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
Christs above beautiful testimony regarding his acknowledgment that he was indeed the only begotten in the flesh son of God the father.
John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
What greater witness can we ask than the personal witness of God the Father?
Hebrews 4:3 (KJV 1900)
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
This is why God called him His Son long before the New Testament resurrection.
My response:
The work of foreordaining Christ before the foundation of the world was laid was set in motion.
There was of necessity the need for Christ to yet perform the work of the atonement and resurrection that was also necessary. If Christ had failed in this mighty work all would have been lost.
Hebrew 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Luke 1:35 (KJV 1900)
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
"Declared to be the Son of God...BY the resurrection from the dead" (Rom 1:4).
Matthew 3:17 (KJV 1900)
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
"Declared to be the Son of God...BY the resurrection from the dead" (Rom 1:4).
I hope you can see the mistake of thinking that just being physically born of a woman in order to fulfill prophecy is what allowed Christ to be declared to be the Son of God, because it wasn't. His resurrection from the dead is what brought about the relationship of Father and Son, as it did with every elect of God.”
My response:
Actually the verse really reads:
Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Kind regards,
RW
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onewithhim
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Re: The Virgin Birth
Post #12Eeeeew you have made an accusation that is made up in your mind. That is what the Mormons teach, and it is insulting to YHWH. God put Jesus' life into Mary by way of His Holy Spirit, not by any physical relations. It is your private interpretation that Mary is the wife of God.Revelations won wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 8:27 am Greetings to all,
It is interesting to see the many and varied suppositions, guesses, speculations, calculations and deductive conclusions that so many arrive at when the clear fact is that all of these are based on fragmentary evidence or the private interpretation of others. Note: this was a topic originally discussed in the Apologetics forum.
Is it not clearly time for all to put away all these supported conception theories? God does not always give us a complete account of things, but does give us understanding based on our spiritual preparedness. (The last time I checked it appears that God usually gives us the answers needed line upon line and precept upon precept.) They vast majority have placed their own self determination,ined "gag order" upon themselves and have by their own choice refused to receive further revelation from God. With this man made approach, man has therefore closed the window of knowledge which could otherwise be obtained only by recvelation from God.
Therefore man is left to his own deductive "private" interpretation and reasoning by this approach which results in the "blind leading the blind" quagmire.
The Jewish leaders of the day falsely accused Christ of being a "bastard child " born out of wedlock. Many today also hold to this same self imposed blind conclusion.
My position is clearly that "Jesus Christ is the only legitimate son of God born of the Father in the flesh." Having said that, it is obvious that "Mary is first and foremost the wife of God the father." For anyone to argue otherwise one would also place themselves in the same "private interpretation" which the the Jewish leaders placed themselves.
Kind regards,
RW
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JehovahsWitness
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Re: The Virgin Birth
Post #13I'm not following, is Revelations saying God materialized as a man and had sexual intercourse with marry?onewithhim wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:25 pm Eeeeew you have made an accusation that is made up in your mind. That is what the Mormons teach, and it is insulting to YHWH. God put Jesus' life into Mary by way of His Holy Spirit, not by any physical relations. It is your private interpretation that Mary is the wife of God.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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onewithhim
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Re: The Virgin Birth
Post #14I thought that was what he was saying. Wouldn't "the wife of God" take on that meaning? The Mormons teach that--a physical relationship between Mary and Jehovah God. If I am wrong I'll stand corrected.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 5:12 pmI'm not following, is Revelations saying God materialized as a man and had sexual intercourse with marry?onewithhim wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:25 pm Eeeeew you have made an accusation that is made up in your mind. That is what the Mormons teach, and it is insulting to YHWH. God put Jesus' life into Mary by way of His Holy Spirit, not by any physical relations. It is your private interpretation that Mary is the wife of God.
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JehovahsWitness
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Re: The Virgin Birth
Post #15I didn't know that! Well, maybe he'll clarify... I guess it's no different from pagan gods that are said to come down and have sex with humans (sometimes in animal form).onewithhim wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 9:55 amI thought that was what he was saying. Wouldn't "the wife of God" take on that meaning? The Mormons teach that--a physical relationship between Mary and Jehovah God. If I am wrong I'll stand corrected.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 5:12 pmI'm not following, is Revelations saying God materialized as a man and had sexual intercourse with marry?onewithhim wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:25 pm Eeeeew you have made an accusation that is made up in your mind. That is what the Mormons teach, and it is insulting to YHWH. God put Jesus' life into Mary by way of His Holy Spirit, not by any physical relations. It is your private interpretation that Mary is the wife of God.
JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Revelations won
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Re: The Virgin Birth
Post #16Dear Eddie Ramos,
Thank you for your responses. I have quote your response below and will insert my replies in bold print in various places of your response.
You said:
“I don´t seem to receive any notification of your (or anyone's) reply unless you quote me in your reply (I don´t know how to change that setting). This is why I totally missed your response. Now, before I answer your question, I do hope that wherevever you are taking this question, that you have taken into consideration my previous responses to your other questions. Too often biblical answers are ignored for the sake isolating a particular doctrine and I'd prefer not to do that in every thread.
While the Godhead is past our finite understanding, all we can conclude is based on the information God uses to describe His deity. One of the ways God has decided to reveal His deity is in the form of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit, yet these three are one God. The Son, therefore, is said to have been begotten of the Father, so the answer to your question is, yes, Jesus Christ is the legitimate Son of God the Father. But we must always keep in mind that we (as finite fallen human beings) cannot take our same limitations and apply them to our inifinite creator, God. Like the fact that human conception requires intimacy between a male and a female. But God is not limited in such ways, as I will show below.
My response:
I will make the following statement for you consideration:
“It Requires revelation to perceive revelation”
2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Matthew 7: 7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Luke 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
22
All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
You said “While the Godhead is past our finite understanding” and I say otherwise that according to the above scriptures only by personal revelation all can know and comprehend the Godhead for God is no respecter of persons.
The JW’s for example will never accept and understand the Godhead for by their admitted “private interpretation of scripture” they not only fail to recognize the divinity of Jesus Christ , but also fail to understand that Jehovah and Jesus Christ are one and the same. They also fail to recognize that Jehovah is the first born spirit son of the most high God even Eloheim.
In fact it is abundantly clear that the Bible is self evident that it contains only a portion of the revelations of God to man.
Psalm 2:7–9 (KJV 1900)
7 I will declare the decree:
The LORD hath said unto me (unto Christ), Thou art my Son;
This day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me,
And I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance,
And the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron;
Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.
As we'll see, Psalm 2:7 is a prophecy of Christ's resurrection from the dead, because raising from the dead is like being born again.
My response:
Yes, Psalm 2 is indeed a Messianic psalm which points out that the heathen shall rage against the Lord’s anointed. Also this psalm speaks of his son whom he has begotten.
Ephesians 2:5 (KJV 1900)
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us (made us alive; saved us) together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
My response:
I would agree that according to Ephesians 2 we are saved by grace through faith—and that the Blood of Christ saves both Jew and Gentile alike. The chapter also makes it very clear that his church is built upon the foundation of APOSTLES AND PROPHETS.
1 Peter 1:3 (KJV 1900)
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again (born again) unto a lively hope by (meaning, through) the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
My response:
Yes it is very clear that according to Peter that the trial of our faith precedes salvation.
Romans 6:4–5 (KJV 1900)
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life (this is eternal life through salvation). 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Now, here is the historical fulfilment of Psalm 2:7:
Acts 13:32–33 (KJV 1900)
And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
So, again, the rainsing from the dead is being equated with having been begotten of God, thus being declared to be His Son. This is also exactly the way salvation worked in the life of every elect. We became sons the moment we (having been dead in sins) were raised to spiritual life.
But, Christ's death, burial and resurrection, in order to be become the Son of God, was a historical fulfilment. I point this out because what most people miss is the fact that even before Christ was born of a virgin, he was declared to be the Son of God. Yet as I mentioned earlier, the prerequisite for being called a Son was to raise from the dead.
Romans 1:3–4 (KJV 1900)
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by (meaning, through) the resurrection from the dead:
This then raises a question. How then could Jesus be called the Son of God before dying on the cross and raising again? The answer is because Christ died and rose again to make payment for sins before the world began, and not at the cross.
My response:
I would give the following clarification as follows. I refer to God the father—Elohim/Eloheim
All should clearly understand from the scriptures that we all are spirit children of God the father including Jesus Christ who is the first born spirit child of God.
Numbers 16:22 And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?
Numbers 27:16 Let the LORD, the God of the spirits of all flesh, set a man over the congregation,
Malachi2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?
Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
We all are first spirit children of the most high God. Additionally Jesus Christ is not only a spirit child of God but he has the divine distinction of being the only begotten son of God in the flesh with a divine mission of fulfilling the the requirements of the atonement and subsequent resurrection.
Matthew 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
It is interesting to see and observe that this mighty testimony of Peter was obtained only by revelation.
Luke 2:And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
Christs above beautiful testimony regarding his acknowledgment that he was indeed the only begotten in the flesh son of God the father.
John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
What greater witness can we ask than the personal witness of God the Father?
Hebrews 4:3 (KJV 1900)
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
This is why God called him His Son long before the New Testament resurrection.
My response:
The work of foreordaining Christ before the foundation of the world was laid was set in motion.
There was of necessity the need for Christ to yet perform the work of the atonement and resurrection that was also necessary. If Christ had failed in this mighty work all would have been lost.
Hebrew 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Luke 1:35 (KJV 1900)
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
"Declared to be the Son of God...BY the resurrection from the dead" (Rom 1:4).
Matthew 3:17 (KJV 1900)
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
"Declared to be the Son of God...BY the resurrection from the dead" (Rom 1:4).
I hope you can see the mistake of thinking that just being physically born of a woman in order to fulfill prophecy is what allowed Christ to be declared to be the Son of God, because it wasn't. His resurrection from the dead is what brought about the relationship of Father and Son, as it did with every elect of God.”
My response:
Actually the verse really reads:
Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Kind regards,
RW
Thank you for your responses. I have quote your response below and will insert my replies in bold print in various places of your response.
You said:
“I don´t seem to receive any notification of your (or anyone's) reply unless you quote me in your reply (I don´t know how to change that setting). This is why I totally missed your response. Now, before I answer your question, I do hope that wherevever you are taking this question, that you have taken into consideration my previous responses to your other questions. Too often biblical answers are ignored for the sake isolating a particular doctrine and I'd prefer not to do that in every thread.
While the Godhead is past our finite understanding, all we can conclude is based on the information God uses to describe His deity. One of the ways God has decided to reveal His deity is in the form of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit, yet these three are one God. The Son, therefore, is said to have been begotten of the Father, so the answer to your question is, yes, Jesus Christ is the legitimate Son of God the Father. But we must always keep in mind that we (as finite fallen human beings) cannot take our same limitations and apply them to our inifinite creator, God. Like the fact that human conception requires intimacy between a male and a female. But God is not limited in such ways, as I will show below.
My response:
I will make the following statement for you consideration:
“It Requires revelation to perceive revelation”
2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Matthew 7: 7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Luke 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
22
All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
You said “While the Godhead is past our finite understanding” and I say otherwise that according to the above scriptures only by personal revelation all can know and comprehend the Godhead for God is no respecter of persons.
The JW’s for example will never accept and understand the Godhead for by their admitted “private interpretation of scripture” they not only fail to recognize the divinity of Jesus Christ , but also fail to understand that Jehovah and Jesus Christ are one and the same. They also fail to recognize that Jehovah is the first born spirit son of the most high God even Eloheim.
In fact it is abundantly clear that the Bible is self evident that it contains only a portion of the revelations of God to man.
Psalm 2:7–9 (KJV 1900)
7 I will declare the decree:
The LORD hath said unto me (unto Christ), Thou art my Son;
This day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me,
And I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance,
And the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron;
Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.
As we'll see, Psalm 2:7 is a prophecy of Christ's resurrection from the dead, because raising from the dead is like being born again.
My response:
Yes, Psalm 2 is indeed a Messianic psalm which points out that the heathen shall rage against the Lord’s anointed. Also this psalm speaks of his son whom he has begotten.
Ephesians 2:5 (KJV 1900)
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us (made us alive; saved us) together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
My response:
I would agree that according to Ephesians 2 we are saved by grace through faith—and that the Blood of Christ saves both Jew and Gentile alike. The chapter also makes it very clear that his church is built upon the foundation of APOSTLES AND PROPHETS.
1 Peter 1:3 (KJV 1900)
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again (born again) unto a lively hope by (meaning, through) the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
My response:
Yes it is very clear that according to Peter that the trial of our faith precedes salvation.
Romans 6:4–5 (KJV 1900)
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life (this is eternal life through salvation). 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Now, here is the historical fulfilment of Psalm 2:7:
Acts 13:32–33 (KJV 1900)
And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
So, again, the rainsing from the dead is being equated with having been begotten of God, thus being declared to be His Son. This is also exactly the way salvation worked in the life of every elect. We became sons the moment we (having been dead in sins) were raised to spiritual life.
But, Christ's death, burial and resurrection, in order to be become the Son of God, was a historical fulfilment. I point this out because what most people miss is the fact that even before Christ was born of a virgin, he was declared to be the Son of God. Yet as I mentioned earlier, the prerequisite for being called a Son was to raise from the dead.
Romans 1:3–4 (KJV 1900)
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by (meaning, through) the resurrection from the dead:
This then raises a question. How then could Jesus be called the Son of God before dying on the cross and raising again? The answer is because Christ died and rose again to make payment for sins before the world began, and not at the cross.
My response:
I would give the following clarification as follows. I refer to God the father—Elohim/Eloheim
All should clearly understand from the scriptures that we all are spirit children of God the father including Jesus Christ who is the first born spirit child of God.
Numbers 16:22 And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?
Numbers 27:16 Let the LORD, the God of the spirits of all flesh, set a man over the congregation,
Malachi2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?
Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
We all are first spirit children of the most high God. Additionally Jesus Christ is not only a spirit child of God but he has the divine distinction of being the only begotten son of God in the flesh with a divine mission of fulfilling the the requirements of the atonement and subsequent resurrection.
Matthew 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
It is interesting to see and observe that this mighty testimony of Peter was obtained only by revelation.
Luke 2:And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
Christs above beautiful testimony regarding his acknowledgment that he was indeed the only begotten in the flesh son of God the father.
John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
What greater witness can we ask than the personal witness of God the Father?
Hebrews 4:3 (KJV 1900)
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
This is why God called him His Son long before the New Testament resurrection.
My response:
The work of foreordaining Christ before the foundation of the world was laid was set in motion.
There was of necessity the need for Christ to yet perform the work of the atonement and resurrection that was also necessary. If Christ had failed in this mighty work all would have been lost.
Hebrew 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Luke 1:35 (KJV 1900)
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
"Declared to be the Son of God...BY the resurrection from the dead" (Rom 1:4).
Matthew 3:17 (KJV 1900)
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
"Declared to be the Son of God...BY the resurrection from the dead" (Rom 1:4).
I hope you can see the mistake of thinking that just being physically born of a woman in order to fulfill prophecy is what allowed Christ to be declared to be the Son of God, because it wasn't. His resurrection from the dead is what brought about the relationship of Father and Son, as it did with every elect of God.”
My response:
Actually the verse really reads:
Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Kind regards,
RW
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Re: The Virgin Birth
Post #17Dear onewithhim,
I quote your post of nov 22as follows:
“Post by onewithhim » Wed Nov 22, 2023 9:55 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 21, 2023 5:12 pm
onewithhim wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:25 pm
“Eeeeew you have made an accusation that is made up in your mind.”
My response: Your above response calls for speculation on your part.
"That is what the Mormons teach, and it is insulting to YHWH."
My response: I have no idea what the Mormons teach. I did not even know that such a church existed. Can you show me documentation that a church by that name even exists? What is the address of a church with the name? Can you produce an official doctrine published by that church stating your alleged doctrine?
“ God put Jesus' life into Mary by way of His Holy Spirit, not by any physical relations.”
My response: Wow this is an interesting doctrine you JW’s teach! I guess all women should avoid receiving the Holy Ghost ((Holy Spirit) or they will become pregnant by the holy spirit? So what you are clearly stating is that Jesus is not the son of God the Father, but is in reality the3 son of the Holy Ghost. Your approach seems very contradictory to the Testimony of Jesus Christ.
Since you and other JW’s clearly deny any possibility of latter day apostles or prophets or revelation it is blatantly obvious that all of your interpretations of the scriptures are “private interpretations”.
This applies to not only your responses on this topic, but Clearly applies to your claim of the kingdom of God being sent to the JW’s 1n 1914. So clearly this 1914 event a “private “ event made up by man’s devices since there is according to your doctrine NO revelation since the ones recorded in the Bible.
“It is your private interpretation that Mary is the wife of God.”
My response:
Again this calls for speculation on your part.
If Christ were conceived out of wedlock as the Jew’s falsely claimed then he would be an illlegitimate son and justly be a bastard child. If that were true, then the Jewish leaders would have a valid accusation.
So you tell me, was Christ the legitimate or the illegitimate son of God the Father?
You claim he is the son of the Holy Spirit and Not the son of God the Father. What is you answer? Where is your evidence? Is your evidence in Harmony with the testimony of Jesus Christ?
“I'm not following, is Revelations saying God materialized as a man and had sexual intercourse with marry?”
My response:
That is your statement not mine. I never said that God “materialized as a man” that is your concoction.
I guess I can better or clearly respond to your question I you can clearly state your clear definition of the corporal nature of the God or Godhood you worship is.
i.e.
1. Does the god you worship have a body of flesh and bone?
2. Who or what is the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit? And what is his
Mission? What else does he do besides getting Mary pregnant as
You claim?
3. Do you claim the Jesus Christ is indeed God the Son?
4. Do you teach the doctrine that no one can bd saved and exalted
Without the atonement and resurrection provided by Christ?
Let’s hear your clear and direct answers.
Kind regards,
RW
I quote your post of nov 22as follows:
“Post by onewithhim » Wed Nov 22, 2023 9:55 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 21, 2023 5:12 pm
onewithhim wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:25 pm
“Eeeeew you have made an accusation that is made up in your mind.”
My response: Your above response calls for speculation on your part.
"That is what the Mormons teach, and it is insulting to YHWH."
My response: I have no idea what the Mormons teach. I did not even know that such a church existed. Can you show me documentation that a church by that name even exists? What is the address of a church with the name? Can you produce an official doctrine published by that church stating your alleged doctrine?
“ God put Jesus' life into Mary by way of His Holy Spirit, not by any physical relations.”
My response: Wow this is an interesting doctrine you JW’s teach! I guess all women should avoid receiving the Holy Ghost ((Holy Spirit) or they will become pregnant by the holy spirit? So what you are clearly stating is that Jesus is not the son of God the Father, but is in reality the3 son of the Holy Ghost. Your approach seems very contradictory to the Testimony of Jesus Christ.
Since you and other JW’s clearly deny any possibility of latter day apostles or prophets or revelation it is blatantly obvious that all of your interpretations of the scriptures are “private interpretations”.
This applies to not only your responses on this topic, but Clearly applies to your claim of the kingdom of God being sent to the JW’s 1n 1914. So clearly this 1914 event a “private “ event made up by man’s devices since there is according to your doctrine NO revelation since the ones recorded in the Bible.
“It is your private interpretation that Mary is the wife of God.”
My response:
Again this calls for speculation on your part.
If Christ were conceived out of wedlock as the Jew’s falsely claimed then he would be an illlegitimate son and justly be a bastard child. If that were true, then the Jewish leaders would have a valid accusation.
So you tell me, was Christ the legitimate or the illegitimate son of God the Father?
You claim he is the son of the Holy Spirit and Not the son of God the Father. What is you answer? Where is your evidence? Is your evidence in Harmony with the testimony of Jesus Christ?
“I'm not following, is Revelations saying God materialized as a man and had sexual intercourse with marry?”
My response:
That is your statement not mine. I never said that God “materialized as a man” that is your concoction.
I guess I can better or clearly respond to your question I you can clearly state your clear definition of the corporal nature of the God or Godhood you worship is.
i.e.
1. Does the god you worship have a body of flesh and bone?
2. Who or what is the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit? And what is his
Mission? What else does he do besides getting Mary pregnant as
You claim?
3. Do you claim the Jesus Christ is indeed God the Son?
4. Do you teach the doctrine that no one can bd saved and exalted
Without the atonement and resurrection provided by Christ?
Let’s hear your clear and direct answers.
Kind regards,
RW
-
JehovahsWitness
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- Contact:
Re: The Virgin Birth
Post #18Okay... thats clearer. It just sounded like you were saying Mary had sexual intercourse with God. ie God penetrated her vaginally in some way. Glad to hear that's not what you are claiming.Revelations won wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 9:58 am
“ God put Jesus' life into Mary by way of His Holy Spirit, not by any physical relations.”
JW
FURTHER READING :
Are Miracles Really Possible?Three Common Objections
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2012562
Jesus Birth: How and Why It Happened
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2002921
RELATED POSTS
VIRGIN Does the writer of Matthew "mistranslate" or "misapply" Isaiah 7:14?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 18#p763618
Did Mary lie about her pregnancy to avoid being stoned?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 01#p898401
Are biblical hereditary rights based on biology?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 98#p781898
When does Luke indicate Jesus was born?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 63#p831863
Was Jesus a wicked baby?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 17#p980517
To learn more please go to other posts related to...
THE VIRGIN MARY , JESUS CHRIST and ...CONCEPTION & BIRTH
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Revelations won
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Re: The Virgin Birth
Post #19Der JW,
Muy post was to Onewithhim. I think Onewithhim is cacapable of giving a direct personal answer to my questions.
But feel free if you are capable of giving your direct personal answers to those questions which I asked of Onewithhim. I was not seeking a bunch of "private interpretations" from others.
Kind regards,
RW
Muy post was to Onewithhim. I think Onewithhim is cacapable of giving a direct personal answer to my questions.
But feel free if you are capable of giving your direct personal answers to those questions which I asked of Onewithhim. I was not seeking a bunch of "private interpretations" from others.
Kind regards,
RW
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Re: The Virgin Birth
Post #20Dear JW,
I quote your post of Novemberf 21, 2023.
Re: The Virgin Birth
Post #13
Post
by JehovahsWitness » Tue Nov 21, 2023 5:12 pm
onewithhim wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:25 pm
Eeeeew you have made an accusation that is made up in your mind. That is what the Mormons teach, and it is insulting to YHWH. God put Jesus' life into Mary by way of His Holy Spirit, not by any physical relations. It is your private interpretation that Mary is the wife of God.
I'm not following, is Revelations saying God materialized as a man and had sexual intercourse with marry?
In response to your above question I would ask what is your personal understanding of the corporeal nature of God?
Does he have a body of flesh and bone?
Can you please give me your personal clear cut answers?
Kind regards,
RW
I quote your post of Novemberf 21, 2023.
Re: The Virgin Birth
Post #13
Post
by JehovahsWitness » Tue Nov 21, 2023 5:12 pm
onewithhim wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:25 pm
Eeeeew you have made an accusation that is made up in your mind. That is what the Mormons teach, and it is insulting to YHWH. God put Jesus' life into Mary by way of His Holy Spirit, not by any physical relations. It is your private interpretation that Mary is the wife of God.
I'm not following, is Revelations saying God materialized as a man and had sexual intercourse with marry?
In response to your above question I would ask what is your personal understanding of the corporeal nature of God?
Does he have a body of flesh and bone?
Can you please give me your personal clear cut answers?
Kind regards,
RW
