Please help me understand Christianity

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Please help me understand Christianity

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The Biblical God allegedly made all the angels and all the biological organisms including the first pair of humans. Why didn't God make everything he made equally all-loving, all-knowing and all-powerful? That would have prevented all suffering, inequality, injustice, and deaths. All-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful beings harm no one through malevolence or ignorance or incompetence. Also, no one and nothing can harm them. That would have been the best outcome for everyone. Instead of doing this, despite being allegedly all-knowing and all-powerful, the Biblical God allegedly made Adam and Eve ignorant about Good and Evil and allegedly told them not to eat the fruits from the Tree of Knowledge. How can eating fruits make one knowledgeable about good and evil? When Adam and Eve allegedly ate the forbidden fruits, God punished them and all the other biological organisms by kicking them out of Eden. He also punished all of their descendants by not letting them live in Eden. Why punish all the other organisms for Adam and Eve's mistake? Why punish their descendants? He also punished Eve and all her daughters with painful childbirth. How is any of these actions fair and morally correct? I consider all of these actions by the Biblical God to be totally evil. Also, the whole idea of Jesus dying for only three days in order to save us from an eternity in hell is absurd. Why didn't God just forgive Adam and Eve? How can the death of one individual be the redemption of all Christians? What about all the non-humans and non-Christians? Jesus was dead for only three days. He didn't spend an eternity in hell. How can being dead for only three days be the substitution for people being in hell for an eternity? Do non-human organisms also go to hell for not accepting Jesus as their Saviour? What about those who died before Jesus allegedly died on the cross? What happens to people who never heard of Jesus or have heard of Jesus but believe that he is not the Saviour (e.g. Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, Sikhs, Agnostics, Atheists, etc.) How can it be ethical to punish people with eternity in hell for not accepting Jesus as Saviour? Christianity does not make any sense at all. Please help me understand Christianity. Thank you very much.
Last edited by Compassionist on Sun Nov 26, 2023 3:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Please help me understand Christianity

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Post by TRANSPONDER »

There's a lot to unpack there...or maybe not. It is essentially the problem of evil, which covers everything from God's evil (or immoral) actions through unfairly blaming it all on man, through (and this is the main one) why God doesn't do a better job, to salvation and judgement and what's wrong with it, from the unfairness of judgement and elitist selectivity and (more recently O:) ) Jesus'sacrifice gave up nothing like enough to wipe out mankind's sins - which we still seem to have anyway.

So, given that these discussions have been worried to death before, let us resurrect them and see how Christianity is explained by the faithful.

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Re: Please help me understand Christianity

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Compassionist wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2023 2:22 pm The Biblical God allegedly made all the angels and all the biological organisms including the first pair of humans. Why didn't God make everything he made equally all-loving, all-knowing and all-powerful?
I think people can be equally all-loving, many just chooses not to. Perhaps that is the reason not to give all power. And about all knowing, would you really like me to know everything about you?

Maybe the reason to not give all knowledge is this:
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
Ecc. 1:18
Compassionist wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2023 2:22 pmThat would have prevented all suffering, inequality, injustice, and deaths. All-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful beings harm no one through malevolence or ignorance or incompetence.
I don't believe that.
Compassionist wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2023 2:22 pmAlso, no one and nothing can harm them. That would have been the best outcome for everyone. Instead of doing this, despite being allegedly all-knowing and all-powerful, the Biblical God allegedly made Adam and Eve ignorant about Good and Evil and allegedly told them not to eat the fruits from the Tree of Knowledge. How can eating fruits make one knowledgeable about good and evil?
God doesn't tell that the fruit itself gives any knowledge. But, after eating the fruit, they learned about good and evil. Also, there was no reason why they could not have asked directly anything from God. I think it was not really about knowledge, but about becoming like God. That is the reason why the woman ate the fruit, desire for higher position. And the man ate it because was not able to resist the woman.
Compassionist wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2023 2:22 pmWhen Adam and Eve allegedly ate the forbidden fruits, God punished them and all the other biological organisms by kicking them out of Eden. He also punished all of their descendants by not letting them live in Eden. Why punish all the other organisms for Adam and Eve's mistake?
Why punish their descendants? He also punished Eve and all her daughters with painful childbirth.
You think this life is a punishment, you would not want this?

They allegedly wanted to know evil, thus they were expelled to this first death where we can learn what it means. I don't think this is a punishment. I think this is a short lesson.

Is there scripture in the Bible that tells God made childbirth painful for all women because of it, or was it only said for Eve?
Compassionist wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2023 2:22 pmAlso, the whole idea of Jesus dying for only three days in order to save us from an eternity in hell is absurd. Why didn't God just forgive Adam and Eve? How can the death of one individual be the redemption of all Christians? What about all the non-humans and non-Christians? Jesus was dead for only three days. He didn't spend an eternity in hell. How can being dead for only three days be the substitution for people being in hell for an eternity?
The reason why Jesus was killed is that he forgave sins. Jesus has the right to forgive, and his death was not necessary for that.

The scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, "Who is this that speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?" But Jesus, perceiving their thoughts, answered them, "Why are you reasoning so in your hearts? Which is easier to say, 'Your sins are forgiven you;' or to say, 'Arise and walk?' But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins" (he said to the paralyzed man), "I tell you, arise, and take up your cot, and go to your house." Immediately he rose up before them, and took up that which he was laying on, and departed to his house, glorifying God.
Luke 5:21-25

Also disciples of Jesus have the same right.

If you forgive anyone’s sins, they have been forgiven them. If you retain anyone’s sins, they have been retained.”
John 20:23

And I think also those who had died before Jesus came on earth, had the same opportunity for forgiveness, because:

Most assuredly, I tell you, the hour comes, and now is, when the dead will hear the Son of God's voice; and those who hear will live.
John 5:25
Compassionist wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2023 2:22 pmDo non-human organisms also go to hell for not accepting Jesus as their Saviour? What about those who died before Jesus allegedly died on the cross? What happens to people who never heard of Jesus or have heard of Jesus but believe that he is not the Saviour (e.g. Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, Sikhs, Agnostics, Atheists, etc.) How can it be ethical to punish people with eternity in hell for not accepting Jesus as Saviour? Christianity does not make any sense at all.
The John 5:25 is about those who died before Jesus. And about those who have not heard of Jesus:

for as many as without law did sin, without law also shall perish, and as many as did sin in law, through law shall be judged, for not the hearers of the law are righteous before God, but the doers of the law shall be declared righteous: -- For, when nations that have not a law, by nature may do the things of the law, these not having a law--to themselves are a law; who do shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also witnessing with them, and between one another the thoughts accusing or else defending, in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, according to my good news, through Jesus Christ.
Romans 2:12-16

And bout the judgment:

For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. He who be-lieves in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God. This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the light, and doesn’t come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God.”
John 3:16-21

If person goes to hell, it is because he is unrighteous and evil. And hell is a place where one is utterly destoyed.

And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna [=hell].
Matt. 10:28

And non-humans, eternal life is promised for righteous only. So, if non-human is righteous, then it is possible it goes to eternal life.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Matt. 25:46
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

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Re: Please help me understand Christianity

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Post by Compassionist »

[Replying to 1213 in post #3]
Thank you ever so much for taking the time to post a detailed reply. I don't agree with you but I respect your right to your beliefs.

Yes, this life is a terrible and undeserved punishment. I didn't ask to be conceived. I wish I never existed. I have suffered so much already. If I could go back in time and prevent my existence, I would have done so a long time ago.

Yes, I do want you and everyone else to know everything about me. Also, I want to know everything about everyone else, too. I want to make all living things equally all-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful and I want to give all beings an infinite number of universes each.

I tried to be all-loving by not breathing, not drinking any fluids and not eating anything but I was not able to sustain it because it is not possible for a living thing to be a non-consumer for very long. I hate myself for all the carbon dioxide I have exhaled and burped and farted in my life and for all the methane I have farted in my life. I hate myself for having an ecological footprint. Every second I am making climate change worse. I am a vegan but I want to be a non-consumer but I can't be a non-consumer without killing myself and I can't kill anyone because killing any living thing is unethical in my view. So, people can't be all-loving. All-loving beings don't consume anything and have no ecological footprints. Also, biological organisms don't have free will. are both determined and constrained by our genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences. My definition of free will is a will that is free from determinants and constraints. To prove me wrong, you would have to do the following:

1. Live forever without consuming any oxygen, fluids, or food.
2. Do things other organisms e.g. tardigrades, dolphins, chameleons, etc. can do.
3. Be able to teleport everywhere and everywhen.
4. Prevent all suffering, inequality, injustice, and deaths.
5. Make all living things (including the dead ones and the never-born ones) forever happy.
6. Be all-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful and make all the other beings also all-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful.
7. Own an infinite number of universes and give all beings an infinite number of universes each for free.

Once you have done the above tasks, I will be convinced that you have free will. If I had free will, I would have already done the above tasks.

If the Bible is true, then the Biblical God is real and evil. Please see https://www.evilbible.com If the Bible is false, then the Biblical God is imaginary and evil. What the Bible says does not match what we know from astronomy, physics, chemistry, biology, geology, medicine, genetics and neuroscience. That's why I think that the Bible is false.

"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." - Genesis 3:16 (KJV). God punished Eve with painful childbirth and subjugation by her husband. These two punishments were carried forward to all females. All females have painful childbirths. Many mothers and babies have died due to the complications that arise because of having a narrow birth canal.

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Re: Please help me understand Christianity

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Post by JehovahsWitness »

1213 wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 5:09 am
Compassionist wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2023 2:22 pmThat would have prevented all suffering, inequality, injustice, and deaths. All-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful beings harm no one through malevolence or ignorance or incompetence.
I don't believe that.

Neither do I ; it is naïve to believe suffering, inequality, injustice, and deaths come from not being created equal , these things come from greed a condition of the heart . If everyone had 1000 dollars a month to live on someone would want two, not because he needed it but because he wanted more. Jesus was right when he said

MARK 7:21-23

For from inside, out of the heart of men, come injurious reasonings: sexual immorality, thefts, murders, acts of adultery, greed, acts of wickedness, deceit, brazen conduct, an envious eye, blasphemy, haughtiness, and unreasonableness. All these wicked things come from within and defile a man



JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Please help me understand Christianity

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Compassionist wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2023 2:22 pm The Biblical God allegedly made all the angels and all the biological organisms including the first pair of humans. Why didn't God make everything he made equally all-loving, all-knowing and all-powerful? That would have prevented all suffering, inequality, injustice, and deaths. All-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful beings harm no one through malevolence or ignorance or incompetence. Also, no one and nothing can harm them. That would have been the best outcome for everyone. Instead of doing this, despite being allegedly all-knowing and all-powerful, the Biblical God allegedly made Adam and Eve ignorant about Good and Evil and allegedly told them not to eat the fruits from the Tree of Knowledge. How can eating fruits make one knowledgeable about good and evil? When Adam and Eve allegedly ate the forbidden fruits, God punished them and all the other biological organisms by kicking them out of Eden. He also punished all of their descendants by not letting them live in Eden. Why punish all the other organisms for Adam and Eve's mistake? Why punish their descendants? He also punished Eve and all her daughters with painful childbirth. How is any of these actions fair and morally correct? I consider all of these actions by the Biblical God to be totally evil. Also, the whole idea of Jesus dying for only three days in order to save us from an eternity in hell is absurd. Why didn't God just forgive Adam and Eve? How can the death of one individual be the redemption of all Christians? What about all the non-humans and non-Christians? Jesus was dead for only three days. He didn't spend an eternity in hell. How can being dead for only three days be the substitution for people being in hell for an eternity? Do non-human organisms also go to hell for not accepting Jesus as their Saviour? What about those who died before Jesus allegedly died on the cross? What happens to people who never heard of Jesus or have heard of Jesus but believe that he is not the Saviour (e.g. Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, Sikhs, Agnostics, Atheists, etc.) How can it be ethical to punish people with eternity in hell for not accepting Jesus as Saviour? Christianity does not make any sense at all. Please help me understand Christianity. Thank you very much.
Though you ask many great questions, please be prepared for an on slot of differing answers, from differing believing Christians.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: Please help me understand Christianity

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Post by The Tanager »

Compassionist wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2023 2:22 pmThe Biblical God allegedly made all the angels and all the biological organisms including the first pair of humans. Why didn't God make everything he made equally all-loving, all-knowing and all-powerful? That would have prevented all suffering, inequality, injustice, and deaths. All-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful beings harm no one through malevolence or ignorance or incompetence. Also, no one and nothing can harm them. That would have been the best outcome for everyone.
To decide what the best outcome is, I think the following question is vital: Which do you think is better?

1. Someone doing good to you freely
2. Someone being forced to work for your good

I think (1) is better than (2). What do you think?
Compassionist wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2023 2:22 pmInstead of doing this, despite being allegedly all-knowing and all-powerful, the Biblical God allegedly made Adam and Eve ignorant about Good and Evil and allegedly told them not to eat the fruits from the Tree of Knowledge. How can eating fruits make one knowledgeable about good and evil? When Adam and Eve allegedly ate the forbidden fruits, God punished them and all the other biological organisms by kicking them out of Eden. He also punished all of their descendants by not letting them live in Eden. Why punish all the other organisms for Adam and Eve's mistake? Why punish their descendants? He also punished Eve and all her daughters with painful childbirth. How is any of these actions fair and morally correct? I consider all of these actions by the Biblical God to be totally evil.
I don’t think this is the picture Genesis paints. I think the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is not about gaining true knowledge of good and evil, but of gaining their first experiential knowledge of deciding for themselves what is good and evil rather than relying on the omniscient, omnibenevolent Creator of all that exists on what is truly good and evil for them. It’s about them wanting to decide for themselves what is good and bad even though they are limited in knowledge. And, surprise, Genesis recounts all the evil that comes from humans trying to decide for themselves without listening to Omnsicence telling them what is good and evil for them.

God has to kick them out of Eden because there wouldn’t be anything worse than allowing humans who are deciding good and evil for themselves to live forever in that state because of all the damage our limited knowledge and self-focus creates. This is the case for all humans, whether Adam and Eve were historical people or stood in for humanity as a whole.

As far as punishing via painful childbirth, the word (as I understand it to be) isn’t for labor or childbirth, but for being or getting pregnant. I think it's more about the difficulties of human relationships now because of us deciding for ourselves what is good and evil. That's the same with Adam and the ground, and the relationship to the crafty serpent. Life will be harder now. Things that are great goods will be harder because we aren't trusting God's omniscience, but wanting to decide things based on our limited perspectives with us inevitably at the center of that perspective.
Compassionist wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2023 2:22 pmAlso, the whole idea of Jesus dying for only three days in order to save us from an eternity in hell is absurd. Why didn't God just forgive Adam and Eve? How can the death of one individual be the redemption of all Christians? What about all the non-humans and non-Christians? Jesus was dead for only three days. He didn't spend an eternity in hell. How can being dead for only three days be the substitution for people being in hell for an eternity? Do non-human organisms also go to hell for not accepting Jesus as their Saviour? What about those who died before Jesus allegedly died on the cross? What happens to people who never heard of Jesus or have heard of Jesus but believe that he is not the Saviour (e.g. Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, Sikhs, Agnostics, Atheists, etc.) How can it be ethical to punish people with eternity in hell for not accepting Jesus as Saviour?
I think forgiveness is more than just wiping out past mistakes, but about actually changing us into people who will be freely loving. Jesus’ death is about transforming us, so that we don’t keep making hell for ourselves and others.

The problem is that we are set up on our own and so we need to surrender that rebellion and come back to God. This surrender is what Christians call repentance. It’s not just saying you are sorry, but unlearning the self-will and selfishness, a kind of death. The catch is that only a perfect person can repent perfectly and they wouldn’t need to do it. We can only do it if God helps us. But what does that mean? It means God has to put a bit of himself into us, so to speak. We need His reasoning and then that is how we think clearly. We need His love so that we can love one another well. It’s like a child learning to write. You hold its hand and the child is forming letters because you are forming them. But, for our problem, we now need God’s help for something that God, in God’s nature, never does…surrender, submit, die. God can only share with us what God has. How can God get what we need? Become human. That’s where Jesus’ birth, life, death, and resurrection come in. As a human, God could now surrender. As God, Jesus could do so perfectly. Jesus taught about sharing that life with us. That is what I think Christianity teaches; Jesus will share that surrendering life with is, transforming us from within.

I don’t think any non-moral beings would need to share in that life and I don’t think other animals we know of are moral beings. That doesn’t mean they are immoral, but amoral. If there are alien species that are moral agents and they rebelled like humans have, then I think God would also do something for them in a similar way as for us.

I think this gift is open to people who have heard of the name Jesus and those that haven’t. It’s about knowing our need to surrender and trusting God to make that happen. God made that happen through Jesus, whether the person knows how or not. This is true of those before and after Jesus’ death on the cross.

Those that don’t want to surrender, want to do it their own way, are choosing hell because we are too limited when separated from Omniscience. To allow people who are continuing to damage others do it forever is immoral. Therefore, hell makes perfect sense if you are after justice. Eventually, people who use their freedom and run with it, who won’t come back can’t be allowed to continue their damage.

That’s (a quick summary that I'll explore in depth with any who want) how I currently see things, at least.

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Re: Please help me understand Christianity

Post #8

Post by Compassionist »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:43 am
1213 wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 5:09 am
Compassionist wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2023 2:22 pmThat would have prevented all suffering, inequality, injustice, and deaths. All-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful beings harm no one through malevolence or ignorance or incompetence.
I don't believe that.

Neither do I ; it is naïve to believe suffering, inequality, injustice, and deaths come from not being created equal , these things come from greed a condition of the heart . If everyone had 1000 dollars a month to live on someone would want two, not because he needed it but because he wanted more. Jesus was right when he said

MARK 7:21-23

For from inside, out of the heart of men, come injurious reasonings: sexual immorality, thefts, murders, acts of adultery, greed, acts of wickedness, deceit, brazen conduct, an envious eye, blasphemy, haughtiness, and unreasonableness. All these wicked things come from within and defile a man



JW
The heart is a pump. People receive other people's hearts during transplant operations. This does not change their personalities or values which would have happened if the heart could do the things you and Jesus claim. The brain is where thoughts, emotions, values and desires reside. Both Jesus and you are wrong. If all living things were all-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful and owned an infinite number of universes each, there would be no suffering, inequality, injustice, and deaths.
Last edited by Compassionist on Mon Nov 27, 2023 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Please help me understand Christianity

Post #9

Post by Compassionist »

The Tanager wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 1:26 pm
Compassionist wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2023 2:22 pmThe Biblical God allegedly made all the angels and all the biological organisms including the first pair of humans. Why didn't God make everything he made equally all-loving, all-knowing and all-powerful? That would have prevented all suffering, inequality, injustice, and deaths. All-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful beings harm no one through malevolence or ignorance or incompetence. Also, no one and nothing can harm them. That would have been the best outcome for everyone.
To decide what the best outcome is, I think the following question is vital: Which do you think is better?

1. Someone doing good to you freely
2. Someone being forced to work for your good

I think (1) is better than (2). What do you think?
Compassionist wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2023 2:22 pmInstead of doing this, despite being allegedly all-knowing and all-powerful, the Biblical God allegedly made Adam and Eve ignorant about Good and Evil and allegedly told them not to eat the fruits from the Tree of Knowledge. How can eating fruits make one knowledgeable about good and evil? When Adam and Eve allegedly ate the forbidden fruits, God punished them and all the other biological organisms by kicking them out of Eden. He also punished all of their descendants by not letting them live in Eden. Why punish all the other organisms for Adam and Eve's mistake? Why punish their descendants? He also punished Eve and all her daughters with painful childbirth. How is any of these actions fair and morally correct? I consider all of these actions by the Biblical God to be totally evil.
I don’t think this is the picture Genesis paints. I think the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is not about gaining true knowledge of good and evil, but of gaining their first experiential knowledge of deciding for themselves what is good and evil rather than relying on the omniscient, omnibenevolent Creator of all that exists on what is truly good and evil for them. It’s about them wanting to decide for themselves what is good and bad even though they are limited in knowledge. And, surprise, Genesis recounts all the evil that comes from humans trying to decide for themselves without listening to Omnsicence telling them what is good and evil for them.

God has to kick them out of Eden because there wouldn’t be anything worse than allowing humans who are deciding good and evil for themselves to live forever in that state because of all the damage our limited knowledge and self-focus creates. This is the case for all humans, whether Adam and Eve were historical people or stood in for humanity as a whole.

As far as punishing via painful childbirth, the word (as I understand it to be) isn’t for labor or childbirth, but for being or getting pregnant. I think it's more about the difficulties of human relationships now because of us deciding for ourselves what is good and evil. That's the same with Adam and the ground, and the relationship to the crafty serpent. Life will be harder now. Things that are great goods will be harder because we aren't trusting God's omniscience, but wanting to decide things based on our limited perspectives with us inevitably at the center of that perspective.
Compassionist wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2023 2:22 pmAlso, the whole idea of Jesus dying for only three days in order to save us from an eternity in hell is absurd. Why didn't God just forgive Adam and Eve? How can the death of one individual be the redemption of all Christians? What about all the non-humans and non-Christians? Jesus was dead for only three days. He didn't spend an eternity in hell. How can being dead for only three days be the substitution for people being in hell for an eternity? Do non-human organisms also go to hell for not accepting Jesus as their Saviour? What about those who died before Jesus allegedly died on the cross? What happens to people who never heard of Jesus or have heard of Jesus but believe that he is not the Saviour (e.g. Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, Sikhs, Agnostics, Atheists, etc.) How can it be ethical to punish people with eternity in hell for not accepting Jesus as Saviour?
I think forgiveness is more than just wiping out past mistakes, but about actually changing us into people who will be freely loving. Jesus’ death is about transforming us, so that we don’t keep making hell for ourselves and others.

The problem is that we are set up on our own and so we need to surrender that rebellion and come back to God. This surrender is what Christians call repentance. It’s not just saying you are sorry, but unlearning the self-will and selfishness, a kind of death. The catch is that only a perfect person can repent perfectly and they wouldn’t need to do it. We can only do it if God helps us. But what does that mean? It means God has to put a bit of himself into us, so to speak. We need His reasoning and then that is how we think clearly. We need His love so that we can love one another well. It’s like a child learning to write. You hold its hand and the child is forming letters because you are forming them. But, for our problem, we now need God’s help for something that God, in God’s nature, never does…surrender, submit, die. God can only share with us what God has. How can God get what we need? Become human. That’s where Jesus’ birth, life, death, and resurrection come in. As a human, God could now surrender. As God, Jesus could do so perfectly. Jesus taught about sharing that life with us. That is what I think Christianity teaches; Jesus will share that surrendering life with is, transforming us from within.

I don’t think any non-moral beings would need to share in that life and I don’t think other animals we know of are moral beings. That doesn’t mean they are immoral, but amoral. If there are alien species that are moral agents and they rebelled like humans have, then I think God would also do something for them in a similar way as for us.

I think this gift is open to people who have heard of the name Jesus and those that haven’t. It’s about knowing our need to surrender and trusting God to make that happen. God made that happen through Jesus, whether the person knows how or not. This is true of those before and after Jesus’ death on the cross.

Those that don’t want to surrender, want to do it their own way, are choosing hell because we are too limited when separated from Omniscience. To allow people who are continuing to damage others do it forever is immoral. Therefore, hell makes perfect sense if you are after justice. Eventually, people who use their freedom and run with it, who won’t come back can’t be allowed to continue their damage.

That’s (a quick summary that I'll explore in depth with any who want) how I currently see things, at least.
Thank you for your reply. Your question is irrelevant for living things because we are not free from our genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences. Only beings who are all-knowing and all-powerful are free. Biological organisms make choices according to their genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences. That's if these things are real and not illusions. Please see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_(religion) I can't even tell what is actually real and what is illusion.

The alleged flaws in Adam, Eve, Lucifer and other organisms are 100% the fault of God who allegedly made them. If God had made them all-loving, all-knowing, all-powerful and the owner of an infinite number of universes each, there would have been no suffering, inequality, injustice, and deaths.

Many social species e.g. chimps, monkeys, dolphins, etc. have rules the way we have rules. Rules are not unique to humans.

Can you prove that the Biblical God is real and good? Have you looked at https://www.evilbible.com ?

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Re: Please help me understand Christianity

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Compassionist wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 7:48 am ...Yes, this life is a terrible and undeserved punishment. I didn't ask to be conceived. I wish I never existed. I have suffered so much already. If I could go back in time and prevent my existence, I would have done so a long time ago....
Sorry to hear that. I think it is interesting, if you can't see anything good.
Compassionist wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 7:48 amYes, I do want you and everyone else to know everything about me. Also, I want to know everything about everyone else, too. I want to make all living things equally all-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful and I want to give all beings an infinite number of universes each.
Interesting, I think it is not all-loving to want to know everything about others.
Compassionist wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 7:48 amI tried to be all-loving by not breathing, not drinking any fluids and not eating anything but I was not able to sustain it because it is not possible for a living thing to be a non-consumer for very long. I hate myself for all the carbon dioxide I have exhaled and burped and farted in my life and for all the methane I have farted in my life. I hate myself for having an ecological footprint. Every second I am making climate change worse. I am a vegan but I want to be a non-consumer but I can't be a non-consumer without killing myself and I can't kill anyone because killing any living thing is unethical in my view. So, people can't be all-loving. All-loving beings don't consume anything and have no ecological footprints.
I think it is very sad that people have been tricked to believe carbon dioxide is a problem. Without it, all plants would die. So, by breathing CO2, you have saved many plants, you should be happy about that.

I don't think killing plants, or animals, is wrong, unless it is done unnecessarily.
Compassionist wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 7:48 amAlso, biological organisms don't have free will. are both determined and constrained by our genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences. My definition of free will is a will that is free from determinants and constraints. To prove me wrong, you would have to do the following:

1. Live forever without consuming any oxygen, fluids, or food.
2. Do things other organisms e.g. tardigrades, dolphins, chameleons, etc. can do.
3. Be able to teleport everywhere and everywhen.
4. Prevent all suffering, inequality, injustice, and deaths.
5. Make all living things (including the dead ones and the never-born ones) forever happy.
6. Be all-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful and make all the other beings also all-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful.
7. Own an infinite number of universes and give all beings an infinite number of universes each for free.
It is interesting that you seem to think that free will is same as being omnipotent. I think it only means person is free to want whatever he wants.
Compassionist wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 7:48 amIf the Bible is true, then the Biblical God is real and evil. Please see https://www.evilbible.com If the Bible is false, then the Biblical God is imaginary and evil. What the Bible says does not match what we know from astronomy, physics, chemistry, biology, geology, medicine, genetics and neuroscience. That's why I think that the Bible is false.
I think modern information that is in contradiction with the Bible, is false. And I don't think Bible God is evil, I think He is the only good one.
Compassionist wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 7:48 amAll females have painful childbirths. Many mothers and babies have died due to the complications that arise because of having a narrow birth canal.
By what I know, all females don't have painful childbirths. At least that is what some atheists claim, when they try to prove Bible wrong. :D

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