Does Hell Exist?

[Data]

The question for debate is does hell exist? If so, what does the Bible teach hell is?

[Difflugia]

Yeah, that is what they teach in most religious dogma and many people accept it with no question. However, the Bible says that a dead person knows nothing. Dead = dead. Dead doesn't mean somehow alive elsewhere.

The Bible also says that a dead person's spirit can be called up and spoken with, just as plainly as it says that the dead know nothing. Every religious tradition must somehow try to rationalize that those are both in the same Bible, but one can't claim with any honesty that "the Bible says" one and not the other. If your religious tradition claims inerrancy, then it must change the meaning of at least one of them.

So at First Samuel 28 in the NWT, are the scare quotes inspired? Are they inerrant?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Data in post #1]

The word hell is derived from an Anglo-Saxon word meaning “to conceal,” or “to cover” according to the Webster's dictionary.
This word is translated in the Hebrew Scriptures as sheol. In Greek, hades.
All of these words refer to what we call today, the grave.

Words are tools to enable us to understand and communicate. They aren’t the master. IOW, What word is used to describe the place where the dead souls go, some of them, doesn’t affect the existence of that place. They could have used a word that meant “bonfire” then and it wouldn’t affect the actual place.

So, in the strictest sense of the original meaning of the word, hell does exist.
What doesn't exist is a place where dead people (but not actually dead people) burn forever.

Jesus taught there was such a place. The name men give it doesn’t matter.

Definition of dead according to Webster's: "deprived of life : no longer alive"
Webster's calls alive, "still in existence, force, or operation".

Since when is Webster an authority on the afterlife?

Yet, the majority of people on the earth today think that a dead person is alive somehow. To call a dead person alive is an oxymoron.

What does the Bible say is the condition of the dead?
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all." - Ecc 9:5
"His spirit (ftn: 'breath') goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish." Ps 146:4

So the truth of the matter is, if a person is in the grave, "sheol, hades, hell" they are dead and buried. Simple as that. False religions will say otherwise.

It would be far better for those fight with the sword of word definitions that Hell doesn’t exist to ensure they don’t go there.

Didn't you read what 2Timothy wrote? He explained what "hell" actually is, and it can be seen how some Bible translators rendered the words "Gehenna," "Hades," and "Tartarus," and how it confuses the issue of "hell." Read Timothy's post again. That is just the truth. Whether or not you will accept it.

I understand the desire to erase the reality of the place where “the fire is never quenched and the worm never dies” by reducing the definition of the word used. This is usually done by monolinguals who do not know that actual reality can be described by different words. It’s called the tyranny of words. So I’ve read pieces where the attempt to ensure those heading for hell that the place isn’t there because of one meaning of the word. When they get there, they can tell the inhabitants that the place they are in isn’t there because Gehenna or Hell or Hades meant something else. The inhabitants will laugh and say, “we know…we used that maneuver to lull millions.”

It is not a literal place. The lake of fire and other references to "hell" in the scriptures (from Gehenna and Hades) are symbolic to give us the idea of what happens to dead people. They cease to be. Criminals thrown into the Valley of Hinnom (Gehenna) were burnt completely up. The lake of fire means the same thing. Anything thrown there will cease to exist. You should do more research. You apparently don't know the difference between "hell" and Gehenna and the lake of fire. BTW, the scriptures say that:

"The dead are conscious of nothing at all." (Ecclesiastes 9:5,10)

Do you know what "Sheol" means? (I assume you have read the verses that I referred to.) It is the same as is translated "hell" in the King James Bible. It means the grave.

Have you noticed that in Revelation 20 verse 14 "death and hell" were hurled into the lake of fire"? Please explain: How can hell be thrown into hell? It obviously means that death and hell would be no more, completely gone. (You can't throw death either, can you?)

In my King James Version there is a margin note at Rev. 20 referring to "hell," and it says "or the grave." So JWs aren't going by some things that are trumped up to agree with our beliefs. We can show you from any Bible what the truth is. You ought to try it some time.

[onewithhim]

Right now our bodies and spirits are together. At death they separate. So it it true that the body is in the grave upon death. Where else should it be? The soul, however, is not there.

So when the new arrivals insist Gehenna meant the “grave, “I hear a, “oh yeah. Your body is the grave all right. It’s just that rest of you isn’t.”

No, Gehenna is not the grave. You are all mixed up. You don't know the difference between the words we have tried to tell you about, and don't want to know, apparently.

The soul does not leave the body at death, because the "soul" is the complete person or animal. Did you know that animals are also souls? That word describes, in the early manuscripts, both humans and animals, as referred to in Genesis 1:20,24. The word translated into "creature" is "soul," from nephesh. That refers to people and animals. You apparently don't know that.

From the King James Version: "For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath, so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast....All are going unto one place; all are of the dust, and all return to dust again." (Ecclesiastes 3:19,20)

[Mae von H]

Right now our bodies and spirits are together. At death they separate. So it it true that the body is in the grave upon death. Where else should it be? The soul, however, is not there.

So when the new arrivals insist Gehenna meant the “grave, “I hear a, “oh yeah. Your body is the grave all right. It’s just that rest of you isn’t.”

No, Gehenna is not the grave. You are all mixed up. You don't know the difference between the words we have tried to tell you about, and don't want to know, apparently.

The soul does not leave the body at death, because the "soul" is the complete person or animal. Did you know that animals are also souls? That word describes, in the early manuscripts, both humans and animals, as referred to in Genesis 1:20,24. The word translated into "creature" is "soul," from nephesh. That refers to people and animals. You apparently don't know that.

From the King James Version: "For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath, so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast....All are going unto one place; all are of the dust, and all return to dust again." (Ecclesiastes 3:19,20)

Sigh! The usual ad hominem attack at the start by those who only hope they’re right.

There is an understandable reason why this is important to you but we aren’t allowed to explain human behavior here. Too bad! Much wisdom comes in understanding man.

Jesus’ spirit left his body and returned 3 days later. Jesus described hell and warned of it. No one warns others of the grave as though one can avoid it. Jesus stood at the stoning of Stephen although he usually sat, to welcome him home, not to get a better view.

Thanks for the exchange.

[JehovahsWitness]

Jesus’ spirit left his body and returned 3 days later.

Yes, because a person (or an animal's) spirit is simply his (or its) life force. The bible speaks of it as obes "breath if life". Since Jesus was resurrected God recreated a body for him ( just as He did for Lazarus who was also dead for a few days) so he (Jesus) returned to life.

[JehovahsWitness]

Jesus described hell and warned of it.

There have been ample posts in this thread explaining what Jesus warned about. We know he didn't speak English so he didn't use the English word "hell"; rather he used the word "Gehenna" which was actually a local rubbish dump.

No one warns others of the grave as though one can avoid it.

The word for the symbolic common grave is HADES in the bible. The Greek word HADES refers to the place all humans (and animals) go to to when they die. It is completely different from "Gehenna" spoken of in the post above. The two different terms should not be confused as Jesus spoke of two different eventualities depending on how one is judged.



JW

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

BIBLE "HELL", THE CONDITION OF THE DEAD and ...HELLFIRE TORTURE DEBUNKED

[JehovahsWitness]

Jesus stood at the stoning of Stephen although he usually sat, to welcome him home, not to get a better view.

What your point with this comment? And how does it relate to the existence of hell?

[JehovahsWitness]

Right now our bodies and spirits are together. At death they separate. So it it true that the body is in the grave upon death. Where else should it be? The soul, however, is not there.

The bible usage if the word SOUL is quite different from mainstream church usage. A SOUL is just a living person or animal. At death the soul ceases to exist.

The words SPIRIT and SOUL are not synonymes.






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SOULS, SPIRIT and ... WHAT HAPPENS AT DEATH?

[2timothy316]

No one warns others of the grave as though one can avoid it.

The Bible warns of death and says it can be avoided. Deut 30:15-20 and John 11:25, 26.

I notice you don't back your dogma with scripture. Do you view what you say as better than scripture?

[onewithhim]

Right now our bodies and spirits are together. At death they separate. So it it true that the body is in the grave upon death. Where else should it be? The soul, however, is not there.

So when the new arrivals insist Gehenna meant the “grave, “I hear a, “oh yeah. Your body is the grave all right. It’s just that rest of you isn’t.”

No, Gehenna is not the grave. You are all mixed up. You don't know the difference between the words we have tried to tell you about, and don't want to know, apparently.

The soul does not leave the body at death, because the "soul" is the complete person or animal. Did you know that animals are also souls? That word describes, in the early manuscripts, both humans and animals, as referred to in Genesis 1:20,24. The word translated into "creature" is "soul," from nephesh. That refers to people and animals. You apparently don't know that.

From the King James Version: "For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath, so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast....All are going unto one place; all are of the dust, and all return to dust again." (Ecclesiastes 3:19,20)

Sigh! The usual ad hominem attack at the start by those who only hope they’re right.

There is an understandable reason why this is important to you but we aren’t allowed to explain human behavior here. Too bad! Much wisdom comes in understanding man.

Jesus’ spirit left his body and returned 3 days later. Jesus described hell and warned of it. No one warns others of the grave as though one can avoid it. Jesus stood at the stoning of Stephen although he usually sat, to welcome him home, not to get a better view.

Thanks for the exchange.

Why don't you read what is posted? I showed you from the scriptures some powerful points about the soul and animals. Conscious spirits do not leave the body at death. "The dead are conscious of nothing at all." (Eccles. 9:5) The spirit that goes back to the God who made it is the breath of life that kept the person alive. It is God's Spirit that keeps beings alive. Not that each person has a spirit that survives them and is conscious somewhere else.

Jesus was made alive again by God three days after he died. He went to his GRAVE for three days. You again misunderstand the meaning of "hell" in the King James Version. It simply means the grave. That's where Jesus' soul (his entire being) was for three days. He did not describe a hell of burning fire, because he was truly dead. The only place that you can get any kind of idea that Jesus was describing a burning "hell" is at Luke 16 which is all symbolic of a situation with the Pharisees who are pictured as the Rich Man and the common people as Lazarus and are portrayed as misguiding the people and are not in good with God (the Greater Abraham). It is not a story that was literal. Could one drop of water soothe a man's tongue who was in flames? Could a man, in flames, really talk to Abraham who is pictured as being in heaven?

Why don't you provide scriptures to prove your points instead of just stating your opinions?