Mark 6:3
" Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him. "
One of the most commonly used tools of deception is omission. I can not accuse the Mark Gospel of leaving out these details of Jesus's immediate earthly family.
Questions
1.Is this family grouping well known?
2. Has this stuff been air-brushed from doctrine and if so why?
3.Is this a general habit for Chistian doctrine formulators?
4.Are there other examples of more obvious selective amnesia?
Why no family pictures of Jesus?
Moderator: Moderators
- Masterblaster
- Sage
- Posts: 554
- Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2023 3:44 pm
- Has thanked: 70 times
- Been thanked: 40 times
Why no family pictures of Jesus?
Post #1'Love God with all you have and love others in the same way.'
- JehovahsWitness
- Savant
- Posts: 21344
- Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
- Has thanked: 810 times
- Been thanked: 1148 times
- Contact:
Re: Why no family pictures of Jesus?
Post #2This seems to be an classic example of straining a gnat to swallow a camel. The important focus of the gospel was of course the life and ministry of Jesus of Nazareth and he himself is recorded as saying that family his ties were not to be given special attention. Yet here we are, with all sorts of imagined conspiracy theories, just because the bible writers followed through on their own leader's explicit instruction. Damned if you do, damned if you dont...
The gospels record that Jesus siblings were not believers until after his death and the Christians scriptures alluded to their later convertion and the role James and Jude played in the early Christian church. There is no evidence that legitimate oral or written traditions included more details about the lives of Jesus immediate family and the gnat of fantom conspiracy theories to the contrary only give rise to the camel of undermining both the focus of and confidence in, the authenticity of the bible canon.
In any case, if the bible account is to be believed, that Jesus was not an only child was common knowledge and since that fact is there in black and white in scripture, the gospel writers cannot be faulted as neglecting to record that particular detail. In short, if people are not aware Jesus had at least 5 younger brothers and sisters, that should be laid at the feet of their own reading skills rather than the author or suggest interpolation.
The gospels record that Jesus siblings were not believers until after his death and the Christians scriptures alluded to their later convertion and the role James and Jude played in the early Christian church. There is no evidence that legitimate oral or written traditions included more details about the lives of Jesus immediate family and the gnat of fantom conspiracy theories to the contrary only give rise to the camel of undermining both the focus of and confidence in, the authenticity of the bible canon.
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Wed Dec 13, 2023 1:27 pm, edited 4 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
-
- Savant
- Posts: 8463
- Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:05 am
- Has thanked: 986 times
- Been thanked: 3656 times
Re: Why no family pictures of Jesus?
Post #3I agree. The family of Jesus don't matter unless they come into his story. His mopther does of course, but Joseph of Arimathea, Lazarus/Beloved disciple' and Mary Magdalene play more of a part than the family of Jesus do.
That said, I suspect that the followers of Jesus were more Family than was let on. I did discuss the group pof women that Luke said followed Jesus and of course it is true the sisters are not said to be at the crucifixion, let alone the brothers. My feeling that the disciples inbcluses James at least and a couple more took me further than I could show. It was mainly about arguing that Mary should have stayed with the family, not been handed to the disciple. Even if they were still in Galilee.
It's just a feeling, but I have a suspicion that not only was the 12 part family, but some were the same people.I mean, James and James, Simon Cephas and Simon the zealot. Even Judas and Judas 'not Iscariot'. Sorta split into Christian disciples and zealot disciples, as Jesus was split into Christian Jesus and zealot Barabbas.
Swashbuckling theorizing enough?
Well swash me buckle and gusset me flue.
That said, I suspect that the followers of Jesus were more Family than was let on. I did discuss the group pof women that Luke said followed Jesus and of course it is true the sisters are not said to be at the crucifixion, let alone the brothers. My feeling that the disciples inbcluses James at least and a couple more took me further than I could show. It was mainly about arguing that Mary should have stayed with the family, not been handed to the disciple. Even if they were still in Galilee.
It's just a feeling, but I have a suspicion that not only was the 12 part family, but some were the same people.I mean, James and James, Simon Cephas and Simon the zealot. Even Judas and Judas 'not Iscariot'. Sorta split into Christian disciples and zealot disciples, as Jesus was split into Christian Jesus and zealot Barabbas.
Swashbuckling theorizing enough?
Well swash me buckle and gusset me flue.
- JehovahsWitness
- Savant
- Posts: 21344
- Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
- Has thanked: 810 times
- Been thanked: 1148 times
- Contact:
Re: Why no family pictures of Jesus?
Post #4It has certainly been airbrished from Catholic doctrine along with the doctrine of other groups in Christendom. WHY? because they hold a dogma that Mary (Jesus mother) was an eternal virgin, which obviously contradicts the contents of the bible text .Masterblaster wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 5:24 am
2. Has this stuff been air-brushed from doctrine and if so why?
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Wed Dec 13, 2023 1:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
- Masterblaster
- Sage
- Posts: 554
- Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2023 3:44 pm
- Has thanked: 70 times
- Been thanked: 40 times
Re: Why no family pictures of Jesus?
Post #5Hello JehovahsWitness
I think your response to this question is a good one. I hope that the matter is settled in this easy manner.
Jesus leaves home, how does that happen. Was he a carpenter. How did he sustain himself or was he a rambling healer who slept outside most times. Would his group have had tents with them. Was Jesus's lifestyle normal because it does not receive much scrutiny.
In the Mark Gospel Jesus retreats to quiet places and to the lake and to a boat many times. Is he and the disciples still doing a bit of fishing to keep themselves going. Jesus appears to have had very simple needs but I'm sure that the life of a pastoral healer had to have come with challenges. What do you think?.
He completely left his family?
I think your response to this question is a good one. I hope that the matter is settled in this easy manner.
Jesus leaves home, how does that happen. Was he a carpenter. How did he sustain himself or was he a rambling healer who slept outside most times. Would his group have had tents with them. Was Jesus's lifestyle normal because it does not receive much scrutiny.
In the Mark Gospel Jesus retreats to quiet places and to the lake and to a boat many times. Is he and the disciples still doing a bit of fishing to keep themselves going. Jesus appears to have had very simple needs but I'm sure that the life of a pastoral healer had to have come with challenges. What do you think?.
He completely left his family?
Last edited by Masterblaster on Wed Dec 13, 2023 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Masterblaster
- Sage
- Posts: 554
- Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2023 3:44 pm
- Has thanked: 70 times
- Been thanked: 40 times
Re: Why no family pictures of Jesus?
Post #6Hello JehovahsWitnessJehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 1:29 pmIls certainly been airbrished from Catholic doctrine; WHY? because they hold a dogma that Mary (Jesus mother) was an eternal virgin, which obviously contradicts the contents of the bible text .Masterblaster wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 5:24 am
2. Has this stuff been air-brushed from doctrine and if so why?
This looks like a definite occurrence. How early did this start. Can you see where it was done?
You might be shocked at this but about 75% of Christian's (at least) are unaware that Jesus had brothers and sisters Was this situation intentionally achieved???
Last edited by Masterblaster on Wed Dec 13, 2023 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
'Love God with all you have and love others in the same way.'
- JehovahsWitness
- Savant
- Posts: 21344
- Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
- Has thanked: 810 times
- Been thanked: 1148 times
- Contact:
Re: Why no family pictures of Jesus?
Post #7I was just looking at Wiki, there are pages and pages on this particular dogma. I think its important to Catholic ( and the like) because its tied to their prohibition of marriage for their Priests and of course their veneration of Mary as "the Mother of God".Masterblaster wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 1:35 pmHello JehovahsWitnessJehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 1:29 pmIls certainly been airbrished from Catholic doctrine; WHY? because they hold a dogma that Mary (Jesus mother) was an eternal virgin, which obviously contradicts the contents of the bible text .Masterblaster wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 5:24 am
2. Has this stuff been air-brushed from doctrine and if so why?
This looks like a definite occurrence. How early did this start. Can you see where it was done?
Quite a quagmire.
JW
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Wed Dec 13, 2023 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
- JehovahsWitness
- Savant
- Posts: 21344
- Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
- Has thanked: 810 times
- Been thanked: 1148 times
- Contact:
Re: Why no family pictures of Jesus?
Post #8You have a lot of questions about Jesus. The best thing I can do is advise you read the online publication published by Jehovahs WitnessesMasterblaster wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 1:31 pm Hello JehovahsWitness
I think your response to this question is a good one. I hope that the matter is settled in this easy manner.
Jesus leaves home, how does that happen. Was he a carpenter. How did he sustain himself or was he a rambling healer who slept outside most times. Would his group have had tents with them. Was Jesus's lifestyle normal because it does not receive much scrutiny.
In the Mark Gospel Jesus retreats to quiet places and to the lake and to a boat many times. Is he and the disciples still doing a bit of fishing to keep themselves going. Jesus appears to have had very simple needs but I'm sure that the life of a pastoral healer had to have come with challenges. What do you think?.
He completely left his family?
Jesus—The Way, the Truth, the Life
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/publication/r1/lp-e/jy
It covers the life of Jesus in chronological order, verse by verse.
CHAPTER 9 : "Growing Up in Nazareth" (tells us what we know about his family and early life)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102014612
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
- Masterblaster
- Sage
- Posts: 554
- Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2023 3:44 pm
- Has thanked: 70 times
- Been thanked: 40 times
Re: Why no family pictures of Jesus?
Post #9Hello JehovahsWitness
The eternal virgin doctrine does not impact on my personal belief in Jesus, in any way.
You said this at the start - This seems to be an classic example of straining a gnat to swallow a camel.
Yes a camel was swallowed to create a doctrine. People chose to forget the recorded existence of Jesus's siblings and pushed on relentlessly with unreal hypothetics.
The eternal virgin doctrine does not impact on my personal belief in Jesus, in any way.
You said this at the start - This seems to be an classic example of straining a gnat to swallow a camel.
Yes a camel was swallowed to create a doctrine. People chose to forget the recorded existence of Jesus's siblings and pushed on relentlessly with unreal hypothetics.
'Love God with all you have and love others in the same way.'
- Masterblaster
- Sage
- Posts: 554
- Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2023 3:44 pm
- Has thanked: 70 times
- Been thanked: 40 times
Re: Why no family pictures of Jesus?
Post #10This amnesia is forced. God cannot come from impurity.This cannot be upheld.Everything must be choreographed to agree otherwise.
When did this, original sin, virgin birth, etc ,start. Is it in Acts, in Paul, in the Gospels. Did you know that the Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception has nothing to do with a virgin birth. How much of this is born from theological chauvinism. Were women in some way in their metabolism, impure.
When did this, original sin, virgin birth, etc ,start. Is it in Acts, in Paul, in the Gospels. Did you know that the Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception has nothing to do with a virgin birth. How much of this is born from theological chauvinism. Were women in some way in their metabolism, impure.
'Love God with all you have and love others in the same way.'