Exodus 12:29 New King James Version
And it came to pass at midnight that the LORD struck all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sat on his throne to the firstborn of the captive who was in the dungeon, and all the firstborn of livestock.
God was upset with the pharaoh so why murder a lot of babies that did nothing and just murder the pharaoh?
God murders babies and children
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JehovahsWitness
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Re: God murders babies and children
Post #2MURDER OR KILLING
Firstly, it is the State or ruling authority that decides if something is "murder" or not. killing is not automatically considered "murder" in any society. MURDER is 'unlawful' killing, and since the "biblegod" makes the law, this one can no more murder than a Judge pronouncing the death penelty in line with State established laws can or a soldier on the battlefield respecting universally established codes of law does.
JUST CAUSE
Regarding the MORALITY of events, most agree that under certain extreme circumstances, innocent bystanders (war victims) will be killed in the struggle for the greater good. The fight against SLAVERY (as was the case in the Hebrew rebellion in Egypt) is considered by many, such a justifiable cause.
The tyrannical regime they were rebelling against had institutionalized infanticide, countless children were being killed, that along with racial oppression and the implied denial of basic human rights would even today be considered just cause for a civil or national uprising. The civil struggle in Egypt was for the most was a non-violent disruption and distruction of the Egyptian infrastructure, through 9 consecutive manifestations. The Egyptian people were well aware of what was going on since these disruptive measure effected them all and the Hebrew envoy (Moses) publically annouced what they would be. Of the 9 manifestations (plagues) the only one that could possibly have threatened human life was was #7 and the Egyptians as well as the Hebrews were told how to protect themselves (in this case by remaining inside their houses).
It was the same case for the 10th and final plague. Unlike in other civil wars, all individuals were given the opportunity to protect themselves and their children. Instructions where provided that anyone that put a bloodmark on their doorposts would be unaffected. After 9 plagues it would have been public knowledge what was going on, and the fact that a vast mixed company of non-Israelites eventually left the Egypt is testimony that many others put took the warning to heart and followed instructions to protect their children.
In short, there is no reason why a single Egyptian baby should have died. The bible account indicates that the Egyptians were given fair warning and any deaths therefore, sad as they were rest squarely at the feet of negligent parents.
JW
RELATED POSTS
Firstly, it is the State or ruling authority that decides if something is "murder" or not. killing is not automatically considered "murder" in any society. MURDER is 'unlawful' killing, and since the "biblegod" makes the law, this one can no more murder than a Judge pronouncing the death penelty in line with State established laws can or a soldier on the battlefield respecting universally established codes of law does.
JUST CAUSE
Regarding the MORALITY of events, most agree that under certain extreme circumstances, innocent bystanders (war victims) will be killed in the struggle for the greater good. The fight against SLAVERY (as was the case in the Hebrew rebellion in Egypt) is considered by many, such a justifiable cause.
The tyrannical regime they were rebelling against had institutionalized infanticide, countless children were being killed, that along with racial oppression and the implied denial of basic human rights would even today be considered just cause for a civil or national uprising. The civil struggle in Egypt was for the most was a non-violent disruption and distruction of the Egyptian infrastructure, through 9 consecutive manifestations. The Egyptian people were well aware of what was going on since these disruptive measure effected them all and the Hebrew envoy (Moses) publically annouced what they would be. Of the 9 manifestations (plagues) the only one that could possibly have threatened human life was was #7 and the Egyptians as well as the Hebrews were told how to protect themselves (in this case by remaining inside their houses).
It was the same case for the 10th and final plague. Unlike in other civil wars, all individuals were given the opportunity to protect themselves and their children. Instructions where provided that anyone that put a bloodmark on their doorposts would be unaffected. After 9 plagues it would have been public knowledge what was going on, and the fact that a vast mixed company of non-Israelites eventually left the Egypt is testimony that many others put took the warning to heart and followed instructions to protect their children.
In short, there is no reason why a single Egyptian baby should have died. The bible account indicates that the Egyptians were given fair warning and any deaths therefore, sad as they were rest squarely at the feet of negligent parents.
JW
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
Re: God murders babies and children
Post #3[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #2]
So, what JWs believe is that it is OK to murder babies if the government says it is OK. Will at least I don't believe it is OK to Murder babies under a government that would OK it. Is it just you or do all JWs believe it is OK to kill babies.
So, what JWs believe is that it is OK to murder babies if the government says it is OK. Will at least I don't believe it is OK to Murder babies under a government that would OK it. Is it just you or do all JWs believe it is OK to kill babies.
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JehovahsWitness
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Re: God murders babies and children
Post #4Murder is always wrong. No government has the right to order killing which is why true Christians never participate in war or join the military.Donray wrote: ↑Sun Dec 24, 2023 11:45 am [Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #2]
So, what JWs believe is that it is OK to murder babies if the government says it is OK. ...
JEHOVAH'S WITNESS
To read more please go to other posts related to POSTS RELATED to ...
RELIGION, WAR and ...BIBLICAL KILLING
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
Re: God murders babies and children
Post #5So, is God murdering a lot of babies, OK? This is a yes or no response. And why did you say it is OK to kill babies depending on the authorities?
Remember that your god murdered ALL the babies on Earth. Was that, OK?
Remember that your god murdered ALL the babies on Earth. Was that, OK?
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JehovahsWitness
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Re: God murders babies and children
Post #6No, God has never "murdered" any babies. Murder is unlawful killing, and no authority in existence can render "unlawful" what God commands.
I said no such thing.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
Re: God murders babies and children
Post #7So JWS think it OK that your god killed millions of babies when it did not need to? Why not just kill the wicked? And it is MURDER killing babies. I don't care if a god does it or not. Again why do you think it is OK for your god to MURDER (KILL) babies by the millions? Is OK is any religious leader says it is OK.
Why do you want to insist that killing babies is not murder? So, if a mother kills her babies because GOD told her to do it is not murder?
Why do you want to insist that killing babies is not murder? So, if a mother kills her babies because GOD told her to do it is not murder?
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JehovahsWitness
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Re: God murders babies and children
Post #8I have no evidence of "millions" of babies being killed by God. The bible speaks of countless parents failing to heed God's warnings to protect themselves and their children from immenent danger.
So JWS think it OK that your god killed millions of babies when He did not need to?
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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JehovahsWitness
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Re: God murders babies and children
Post #9I dont believe any human has the right to authorize the taking of a life; so no, no religious leader has the right to order the killing of a human being. All life belongs to God and only He can authorize the taking of a life.
God has never authorized mothers to kill their babies but if He did then biblically no, it would NOT be murder.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
Re: God murders babies and children
Post #10So how many babies did your god kill in a flood? How many firstborns?
Then the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven. How many babies did your god burn to death?
So, you tell me your estimate on the number of babies killed by your god? What about children?
Also, the mother had instruction from God to kill her babies. So, she should not be punished since your god told her to do it. Unless you don't believe your God communicates with people.
Then the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven. How many babies did your god burn to death?
So, you tell me your estimate on the number of babies killed by your god? What about children?
Also, the mother had instruction from God to kill her babies. So, she should not be punished since your god told her to do it. Unless you don't believe your God communicates with people.
