' Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.'

[Masterblaster]

Hello

Matthew 7:20
'Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.'

Are Christian's easily recognizable?
Are they obligated to act as examples?
Are they dramatically inconspicuous?
Are they dismally failing, and if so. WHY?

[Masterblaster]

Hello

' Christianity; Who dropped the ball? '

This 'C' thing had an original simplicity to it. It's fundamentals were basically sound and yet it appears to have dissolved into a type of residue....allow for a quick recap, Please!

We start with a Jewish theist Jesus Christ. He gives two simple rules that clarify Jewish Doctrine.

God is everywhere. This is to be accepted by Christians. At the bottom of my garden , I feel God.
There are cycles and mysteries within God that man punctuates with definable concepts such as birth and death and resurrection. That conversation is for another day.
So we have this Jesus Christ fellow and his God that we share. We are now Christians.

This God demands belief and respect or as it is referred to in the song ..'the best of our love'. From this special platform of empowerment we can be wonderful companions to our fellow man and we can embrace them with joy. That was the remit.

Who,where,how was the thing fumbled?

Respect for others starts with self-respect. It is when your gratitude overflows that you give to others. Christians need to walk from God towards their neighbour instead of walking to God ,through their neighbour. Get a firm grip on your reality of God before embarking on your NFL career with the Christian Crusaders.

Matthew 22:36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment

[JehovahsWitness]

I use the collective noun Christians, because they all talk about the same person, and the associated narrative about him, from the same book.

I appreciate your definition of Christian, my comments however were based on the definition as per the founder of Christianity , namely Jesus of Christ. He indicated clearly that there would be "nominal Christians" (people, groups and entire religions that identify as (and at least in the secular sense are identified as) "Christians" but by biblical standards are nothing of the kind.

Thank you anyway for your contribution,


JW

[JehovahsWitness]

Where does Jesus talk about Nationalism, Tribalism ,or War? What had Jesus to say about Official Policy?

He didnt, but he is recorded as saying "let the reader use discernment" the principle being, those that read his words should employ critical thinking skills.

To read more please go to other posts related to POSTS RELATED to ...

LOVE , WAR and ...CHRISTIAN BROTHERHOOD

[JehovahsWitness]

What is a brotherhood?

MATTHEW 23:8

But you, do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your Teacher, and all of you are brothers

1 PETER 2:17

... have love for the whole association of brothers

RELATED POSTS

What did Jesus say would be the identifying mark of True Christians?
viewtopic.php?p=1142687#p1142687

To read more please go to other posts related to...

CHRISTIANITY , LOVE and .... JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

[JehovahsWitness]

Are you rogue from the Christian pack. How do you see it.

I take it you are asking for my personal view. As one of Jehovahs Witnesses, I view all religions apart from my own as part of the biblical "whore of Babylon". The official position of the Jehovahs Witness religion is that the entire body of Christendom is the worst and most reprehensible part of BABYLON THE GREAT (The world empire of false religion).

When somebody joins our faith from any other religion (even if they were baptised as Christians) they have to be baptised again as we dont recognise them as having been part of the Christian faith.

Disunity within Christianity hardly helps it's shared cause, don't you think.

I dont believe there is any disunity within Christianity. There is theological and ideological disunity between Christianity and those that are not Christians but that is as it should be.


JW

[JehovahsWitness]

Does the JW faith tolerate disunity?

Disunity is not really a problem within our faith. We all accept the ultimate authority of scripture and recognise a common channel for the communication of official teachings, namely our governing body. This results in all Jehovah's Witness congrgations aound the world being organised in the same way and protects them from splintering into separate "church groups" with a variety of teachings and practices. All Jehovah's Witnesses are all aware that "a house divided cannot stand" so whatever minor differences of opinion we may have, we are careful not to so promote them as to cause division amongst our number.

If somebody absolutely feels the above is unacceptable to them, the door is always open and they can leave.



JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

[JehovahsWitness]

Are Christians a single definable entity?

I don't see why not; a Christian is a disciple of Jesus. "Christians" [plural] would be more that one disciple of Christ.



JW

[1213]

Hello

Matthew 7:20
'Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.'

Are Christian's easily recognizable?
Are they obligated to act as examples?
Are they dramatically inconspicuous?
Are they dismally failing, and if so. WHY?

I don't know are they easily recognizable, but there are for example these two to help in that:

Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, “If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
John 8:31-32

A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also love one another. By this eve-ryone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
John 13:34-35

[TRANSPONDER]

Where does Jesus talk about Nationalism, Tribalism ,or War? What had Jesus to say about Official Policy?

He didnt, but he is recorded as saying "let the reader use discernment" the principle being, those that read his words should employ critical thinking skills.

To read more please go to other posts related to POSTS RELATED to ...

LOVE , WAR and ...CHRISTIAN BROTHERHOOD

It's a game, based on a trick.

The trick is to limit 'Critical thinking skills' to within the doctrine. Never outside. The Game is to make stuff up, excusive, denial, even rewrtiting the Bible, and backing it up with cherry picked quotes, which don't even need to be relevant.

Thinking critically is never the real tool of Bible apologetics, but Faith is.

Luke 10 21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

That's the real Christian game, and don't let anyone tell you it's anything else, and I may post that excellent vid on the JW method.



But it's the same in all Christian apologetics, and I got it from a bunch of Muslim street preachers inKL:, too.

Friends, it's an old atheist Axiom 'Once you know how the trick is done, you won't be fooled by it ever again'.

Unless of course you want to be be fool and remain in...well, Foolishness, it has to be said. It is the choice to be fooled by doorstoop apologetics, fiddled Bible (oh yes) and perfectly justified lying for Jesus if it 'saves some souls', or to use those Critical Rhinking Sklills so wagged about by the Christian apologists bet despised (as the Gospels direct) if they Really question the Faith.

The point and aim of the trick is to invert reasing and replace it by Faith. I can guess that every single Theist I have ever debated fails under this one basic fallacy - assuming as a given (on Faith) what is claimed. They cannot help themselves. It scuppers all their arguments from the get -go but they can never see it.
(While going to fetch the vid an advert popped up with some paid polemecist standing by Herod's wall in Jerusalem shouting "Do you believe the Bible?? I mean, Really believe it?" To me? No? To believers? Of course, without his advertisement. It has to be about stopping the Flock from doubting and questioning, and that means, stopping them listening to Us )

But others can once they are shown the trick, and are willing to listen. This is how it hands the skeptic, critic and questioner the win from the start: The discussion has both sides presenting their argument. They will probably end up with the Believer swearing that he is not convinced and the doubter will say the same, but the believer has not made a persuasive case; the doubter does not believe. The case FOR God, the Bible or Christianity has failed. IF we are talking about converts, and making (or keeping) converts is what it is all about; atheism is not.

Of course it is all about controlling the mindset on a cultural level. It is quite shocking to me how interviewing people on the street shows an almost uniform dogma they get from Somewhere. Religions know how to get and keep control, and that is where the battle is fought. The debate on the evidence and reasoning is done. It is overcoming the control of the educational outlet where the battle is being fought.

And that is where the rotten fruit has to be wrappedin pretty packaging to look like it's ok, and the bad apples poisoning the whole barrel? Keep the lid on and forbid talking about it.

[Masterblaster]

Hello TRANSPONDER

You say - "It's a game, based on a trick"

I cannot see it in these absolute terms, T.

Leading by example would not be a trick if that was to be the general way of doing things. It is critical to have your core beliefs nailed down so that your example is good and influential. That is the instruction before embarking on any canvassing. I hardly think there is an evangelical preaching message there at all. It is more a case of go out and help.

There should be an openness to all this where nobody gets fooled and where nobody can pull the wool over anyone's eyes.

Matthew 7:
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Get yourself good with God and the rest will take care of itself. The first and greatest commandment should be any aspiring Christian's primary concern.
This hard-sell is no good and, correctly,creates ridicule and suspicion
If the fruit is bad it is expensive at any price. The many net metaphors and shepherd metaphors in the NT, might suggest that it is a numbers game, but I do not think so. People are intuitively attracted to things of merit.

Here is a question?
During my last visit to the Vatican, I noticed that many pilgrims were visiting from South and Central America. Does the faith of these people, in 2024, justify the atrocities of the Spanish and Portuguese colonists,way back then. There is a logic in many recruiting congregations that the end justifies the means. The desire to save someone else through coercion, appears immoral to me but you might see some sense in it. This logic can be used in any situation to justify the most perverse of actions. Take an African slave from a mud hovel that he calls home and in 300 years ,make his descendant a C.E.O. in Silicon Valley. That ,to me is a trick!