Omnipotence and Omniscience

[JoeMama]

The allegedly all-knowing, all-powerful God has the knowledge and power to impart to all of human-kind a certain understanding and ability to achieve salvation, doesn't he?

So, why hasn't he yet done so?

[LittleNipper]

I have no idea what your 'poliiticized science' even looks like.

For example that how politicians basically say electric cars must be bought because "science" says we get then better weather. Or people must buy "vaccines" from quacks and renounce their rights, because "science" says it is best to do so.

I didn't say it had 'said' (spoken) anything but has provided the answers

It is a method to get certain results. It doesn't really answer what the results means. The high priests of science tells what the results means. And often it reminds me of how ancient soothsayers read animal entrails to tell what will happen in future.

The science denial is strong in this one. The fact is that you rely on the products of science every day, and you use thir convenience and usefulness without doubt or question and then dismiss anything the current Fundamentalists say is dogma. Like it or not electric is coming and (like many things the Religious Right fought against) will be the norm.

But you deny science as you like. It will just make the browsers see your posts as less the work of reason and more the work of denial.

Who says Fundamentalists are fighting against science? Did we fight against the A-Bomb? Did we fight against atomic power plants? If they did, it's like they and many other were concerned that such things might just have unexpected repercussions. What I find intriguing is that us "Fundamentalist Christians" note that the prophetic message of the biblical end times is very often poo pooed by the sceptics who say no such thing is occurring, everything is just like it's always been -------- AND THEN THEY RANT ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE, and how we are under the gun to fix what's happening or face dire consequences. So, it would seem that even they see things happening faster and faster, but do not wish to admit that we are not in control.

[1213]

...religion emerged with certainty in the Upper Paleolithic around 50,000 years ago..

Allegedly humans have existed over 200 000 years. Why do you think humans waited about 150 000 years before "they created gods"?

[1213]

...humans have been inventing big invisible humans ...

I would like to know one example of those big invisible humans.

[TRANSPONDER]

I have no idea what your 'poliiticized science' even looks like.

For example that how politicians basically say electric cars must be bought because "science" says we get then better weather. Or people must buy "vaccines" from quacks and renounce their rights, because "science" says it is best to do so.

I didn't say it had 'said' (spoken) anything but has provided the answers

It is a method to get certain results. It doesn't really answer what the results means. The high priests of science tells what the results means. And often it reminds me of how ancient soothsayers read animal entrails to tell what will happen in future.

The science denial is strong in this one. The fact is that you rely on the products of science every day, and you use thir convenience and usefulness without doubt or question and then dismiss anything the current Fundamentalists say is dogma. Like it or not electric is coming and (like many things the Religious Right fought against) will be the norm.

But you deny science as you like. It will just make the browsers see your posts as less the work of reason and more the work of denial.

Who says Fundamentalists are fighting against science? Did we fight against the A-Bomb? Did we fight against atomic power plants? If they did, it's like they and many other were concerned that such things might just have unexpected repercussions. What I find intriguing is that us "Fundamentalist Christians" note that the prophetic message of the biblical end times is very often poo pooed by the sceptics who say no such thing is occurring, everything is just like it's always been -------- AND THEN THEY RANT ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE, and how we are under the gun to fix what's happening or face dire consequences. So, it would seem that even they see things happening faster and faster, but do not wish to admit that we are not in control.

I am sure you know better than that and I am a bit miffed (not unduly ) that you suppose I don't know any better, but then the scientifically ignorant often suppose their opponents don't know any more than they do. In fact I may have made this point, but I make it now - Christian fundamentalists are fine with science - when it suits them. (1) And have been the most eager to beat plowshares into swords to nuke the enemies of freedom. It is only when it conflicts with their opinions that they deny it, short of where they look silly which is why they protest that the Bible does not show a flat earth. Though some extremists might argue that the sun really was made later than the earth while the less ludicrous fundamentalists say it was there before the earth but hidden by cloud. Which of course throws up more problems.

Of course ignorance of science is part and parcel of Christian fundamentalists science -scepticism. Otherwise you would know that climate change is a known phenomenon that shows up in the fossil record - changes in vegetation, for example. In fact even Christian fundamentalists may agree climate change is going on but deny that humans are anything to do with it.

Neither is 'we are not in control'. In many ways we are. We have maybe even beaten evolution by adapting nature to us, rather than we adapt to nature. But there are things we can't yet control if ever. Volcanoes, earthquakes, hurricanes and Floods beat us, and all we can do is try to predict and protect. It is frankly lack of knowledge and intelligence to suggest that if science worked we could stop an asteroid wiping out half the planet.

Oh...well of course, we now can. Thanks science The Christian fundamentalists won't.

(1) in fact they often treat (in my experience) incorrect science or lies about it as Holy Writ if it supports the Bible. Not surprising when they even deny what is printed in the Bible if it doesn't suit them. Another funny story is (I got a million of 'em, none of'em funny) an opponent on the Other forum picked up a comment (prof Gould I recall) that evolution was a fairy tale. We -yall looked into this and found out that it was actually saying that the popular idea of straight line monkey to man was a fairy tale when it was more like a branching tree, which is what Darwin originally sketched in the "I Think..." notes. But for 88 pages he insisted that what was meant was what he wanted it to mean.

[1213]

....Christian fundamentalists are fine with science ...

It is almost funny how some people think their beliefs are science, if someone who is called as scientists tell them to believe so. Real science is testable and it is not a problem for any "fundamentalist". A problem is the "scientific" stuff that is not testable.

[TRANSPONDER]

....Christian fundamentalists are fine with science ...

It is almost funny how some people think their beliefs are science, if someone who is called as scientists tell them to believe so. Real science is testable and it is not a problem for any "fundamentalist". A problem is the "scientific" stuff that is not testable.

And just what is testable and what is not? Archaeology and palaeontology is as 'testable' as forensic science in criminal cases. It may be arguable whether history (the older records, anyway) is as much science as we'd like, but it is surely better than the nonsense -claims of the Bible and the science -denial of the Bible - believers.

[Clownboat]

Allegedly humans have existed over 200 000 years. Why do you think humans waited about 150 000 years before "they created gods"?

Do you feel that you are trustworthy and righteous?
I have my doubts and here is why, because of what you quote mind out in your reply:
Excluding sparse and controversial evidence in the Middle Paleolithic (300,000–50,000 years ago), religion emerged with certainty in the Upper Paleolithic around 50,000 years ago.

For you to ask why humans waited is to ignore that they might not have waited. See above where they may have been creating religious beliefs 300,000 years ago.

Furthermore, you did all this just to ignore a question I bolded for you that you also quote mind out of your reply (which an unrighteous person would do IMO):
If your god concept is different then other god concepts, what are we to make of much older god concepts. How did they exist before your god concept did?

So you quote mind my post and failed to provide answers to legitimate questions. Something even those evil atheists on this site can do!

Want more?
Here is another question that you failed to address:
Also, why do you ignore the religions of South America for example?
The earliest archaeological evidence from human settlement in South America is found in Monte Verde, in Southern Chile. It possibly dates back to as early as 16,500 BCE

These are questions that deserve answers. Have you considered looking for another religion to follow?

[1213]

See above where they may have been creating religious beliefs 300,000 years ago.

Sorry, I don't think that is believable.

If your god concept is different then other god concepts, what are we to make of much older god concepts. How did they exist before your god concept did?

I don't believe there is older concepts.

Also, why do you ignore the religions of South America for example?
The earliest archaeological evidence from human settlement in South America is found in Monte Verde, in Southern Chile. It possibly dates back to as early as 16,500 BCE

To what is that based on? What observation supports that age?

[TRANSPONDER]

Well, I don't credit what you say. Despite claims that Godfaith exited from the start, whether a few billion years or a few thousand years ago, in fact (so archaeology indicates) Judaism was only invented after Israel appears maybe 12th - 10th c B.C. at the most. And Egyptian and Babylonian religions were far older than that.

[Clownboat]

See above where they may have been creating religious beliefs 300,000 years ago.

Sorry, I don't think that is believable.

If your god concept is different then other god concepts, what are we to make of much older god concepts. How did they exist before your god concept did?

I don't believe there is older concepts.

Also, why do you ignore the religions of South America for example?
The earliest archaeological evidence from human settlement in South America is found in Monte Verde, in Southern Chile. It possibly dates back to as early as 16,500 BCE

To what is that based on? What observation supports that age?

I could provide such info, but you would just disbelieve in order to maintain a religious belief you desire to have. Your desire to have somewhere to go when you die controls you it seems. Even to the point of denying reality.
Like you have done with all evidence for ancient humans and their religious beliefs (whether from 50,000 years ago or 300,000 makes no difference).
Like you have done with all the older god concepts that there are.

That you ignore these realities matters not to me, because these things are true no matter what you choose to believe. Showing the denial of reality that some believers are willing to employ to maintain an archaic belief is fascinating though.

Consider this:
Clownboat: There are older god concepts then yours.
1213: I don't believe that. (While simultaneously believing that animals spoke, a man lived in a fish for days and that dead bodies got out of their graves and walked the streets of Jerusalem to name just a few).
Clownboat: