Jesus Way of Shepherding

[OneJack]

Jesus Way of Shepherding - COMING to and FOLLOWING the Lord Jesus Christ until the end,

Let's examine closely the flow of actions between the sheep and the Lord regarding salvation:


27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.


28. And I give them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Read between the lines:

1. When we hear the voice of the Lord Jesus, we are known by Him.

2. When we follow the Lord Jesus, He gives us:

a) eternal life,
b) we shall never perish, and
c) no one can pluck us out of His hand.

There is no teaching of Jesus about 'free gift' or 'by grace, and the belief in the finished work of Christ to be saved, as you teach it today. Instead, those teachings are from Paul. Paul is not Jesus, even if you say he was sent by the Lord."

[placebofactor]

Jesus Way of Shepherding - COMING to and FOLLOWING the Lord Jesus Christ until the end,

Let's examine closely the flow of actions between the sheep and the Lord regarding salvation:


27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.


28. And I give them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Read between the lines:

1. When we hear the voice of the Lord Jesus, we are known by Him.

2. When we follow the Lord Jesus, He gives us:

a) eternal life,
b) we shall never perish, and
c) no one can pluck us out of His hand.

There is no teaching of Jesus about 'free gift' or 'by grace, and the belief in the finished work of Christ to be saved, as you teach it today. Instead, those teachings are from Paul. Paul is not Jesus, even if you say he was sent by the Lord."

Enjoyed your post except for your last comment concerning Paul. So, before we begin, let's get one thing straight. Regardless of who wrote with their pen, from Genesis to Revelation, these men wrote what they heard from the Holy Spirit. No man except Jesus knows teh Father, nor can any man foretell future events, these things are revealed by the LORD through his Holy Spirit.

2 Timothy 3:16, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God," This was written by Paul. 2 Peter 1:21, "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

The term God-breathed translates from the Greek meaning breathed out by God. Its a unique word used only here in the New Testament. It speaks of divine Inspiration, asserting that all Scripture originates from God Himself, not merely human authors. Though written by people, the content was inspired by the Holy Spirit.


And because it comes from God, Scripture carries divine authority. Its not just wise advice, its the standard for truth and morality. Also, the Bible is described as alive and active, meaning it continues to speak to people yesterday, today, and tomorrow, guiding, comforting, and convicting, and equipping believers for every good work, shaping character and preparing them to live out their faith effectively. So, the phrase "All scripture is given by inspiration of God" emphasizes that the Bible is not a human invention but a divine revelation. Its Gods chosen method of communicating His will and truth to humanity, Paul being one of his chosen vessels.

Your thoughts:

[OneJack]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #2]

[[[[[[Enjoyed your post except for your last comment concerning Paul. So, before we begin, let's get one thing straight. Regardless of who wrote with their pen, from Genesis to Revelation, these men wrote what they heard from the Holy Spirit.]]]]]]

If you were with the authors of the bible as theyre listening to the Holy Spirit, I would come to the conclusion that you heard all things that the Holy Spirit told them. Was this the scenario that transpired between you and the authors of the bible for you to say these men wrote what they heard from the Holy Spirit? Have you talked to the Holy Spirit?

[[[[No man except Jesus knows teh Father, nor can any man foretell future events, these things are revealed by the LORD through his Holy Spirit.]]]

Uhhmmm, two things:

1. Biblically speaking, its the Lord Jesus who revealed Himself to whom He wishes, like when He revealed Himself to Paul, as well as what He said then in Matt 11:27.
2. Godlically speaking, its still the Lord Jesus Christ, not the Holy Spirit, who reveals Himself as the Almighty God who, during the apostles time, incarnated Himself [in the bodily flesh of] as the Son of God.

[[[[[2 Timothy 3:16, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God," This was written by Paul. 2 Peter 1:21, "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.]]]

About the scriptures, Jesus said in John 5:39-40:

You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

Jesus does not classify the scriptures/bible as the Word of God, but, rather, as the very scriptures that testify about Him. Therefore, even if you say theyre all inspired, that doesnt make them the word of God, not to mention that almost all of the letters and epistles of John, Paul, Peter, and others in the bible are their own words, respectively.

[[[[The term God-breathed translates from the Greek meaning breathed out by God. Its a unique word used only here in the New Testament. ]]]]]

What about the Lord Jesus Christ, did you bother yourself to come to and call on Him [though we do not see Him momentarily] to hear [from Him] His own version of the meaning of this phrase God -breathed and its relevance to our salvation?

[[[It speaks of divine Inspiration, asserting that all Scripture originates from God Himself, not merely human authors. Though written by people, the content was inspired by the Holy Spirit.]]]]

I dont have doubt for all the scriptures that were allowed by God - inspired - to be written, but in the case of the bible, not all words written in it came out from the mouth of God, whose name is JESUS.

[[[[And because it comes from God, Scripture carries divine authority. ]]]]

What????? Careful, dont you think youre undermining Gods authority by your notion about the scriptures? Youre trying to embed yourself deeply to the doctrine of bibliolatry in your attempt to over-magnify the bible. God alone has the sole divine authority over all His creations, bear that in mind.

[[[Its not just wise advice, its the standard for truth and morality. ]]]

Im certain that the Lord Jesus did not teach that to the apostles nor does He teach that today to His sheep in His one flock. Youre trying the bible too to say things it doesnt say it says to its readers.

[[[[Also, the Bible is described as alive and active, meaning it continues to speak to people yesterday, today, and tomorrow, guiding, comforting, and convicting, and equipping believers for every good work, shaping character and preparing them to live out their faith effectively. ]]]]

Who says that? Im sure its not JESUS, is He? Youre in to bibliolatry, which is the counterpart of idolatry. Graven images is to idolatry as the bible is to bibliolatry. Worse, youre trying to rob the Lord of His post as the pastor and Teacher of His flock and switch the bible on to His post.

[[[So, the phrase "All scripture is given by inspiration of God" emphasizes that the Bible is not a human invention but a divine revelation. Its Gods chosen method of communicating His will and truth to humanity, Paul being one of his chosen vessels.]]]

It depends on which scriptures youre talking about and no matter how inspired the scriptures are, theyre just testimonies to the reality of Jesus so that anyone who happens to read them may come to Jesus to be saved.

Furthermore, its not the bible as Gods chosen method of communicating His will and truth to humanity but, rather, the real and living Christ Jesus is Gods only means for that matter.

[placebofactor]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #2]

[[[[[[Enjoyed your post except for your last comment concerning Paul. So, before we begin, let's get one thing straight. Regardless of who wrote with their pen, from Genesis to Revelation, these men wrote what they heard from the Holy Spirit.]]]]]]

If you were with the authors of the bible as theyre listening to the Holy Spirit, I would come to the conclusion that you heard all things that the Holy Spirit told them. Was this the scenario that transpired between you and the authors of the bible for you to say these men wrote what they heard from the Holy Spirit? Have you talked to the Holy Spirit?

[[[[No man except Jesus knows teh Father, nor can any man foretell future events, these things are revealed by the LORD through his Holy Spirit.]]]

Uhhmmm, two things:

1. Biblically speaking, its the Lord Jesus who revealed Himself to whom He wishes, like when He revealed Himself to Paul, as well as what He said then in Matt 11:27.
2. Godlically speaking, its still the Lord Jesus Christ, not the Holy Spirit, who reveals Himself as the Almighty God who, during the apostles time, incarnated Himself [in the bodily flesh of] as the Son of God.

[[[[[2 Timothy 3:16, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God," This was written by Paul. 2 Peter 1:21, "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.]]]

About the scriptures, Jesus said in John 5:39-40:

You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

Jesus does not classify the scriptures/bible as the Word of God, but, rather, as the very scriptures that testify about Him. Therefore, even if you say theyre all inspired, that doesnt make them the word of God, not to mention that almost all of the letters and epistles of John, Paul, Peter, and others in the bible are their own words, respectively.

[[[[The term God-breathed translates from the Greek meaning breathed out by God. Its a unique word used only here in the New Testament. ]]]]]

What about the Lord Jesus Christ, did you bother yourself to come to and call on Him [though we do not see Him momentarily] to hear [from Him] His own version of the meaning of this phrase God -breathed and its relevance to our salvation?

[[[It speaks of divine Inspiration, asserting that all Scripture originates from God Himself, not merely human authors. Though written by people, the content was inspired by the Holy Spirit.]]]]

I dont have doubt for all the scriptures that were allowed by God - inspired - to be written, but in the case of the bible, not all words written in it came out from the mouth of God, whose name is JESUS.

[[[[And because it comes from God, Scripture carries divine authority. ]]]]

What????? Careful, dont you think youre undermining Gods authority by your notion about the scriptures? Youre trying to embed yourself deeply to the doctrine of bibliolatry in your attempt to over-magnify the bible. God alone has the sole divine authority over all His creations, bear that in mind.

[[[Its not just wise advice, its the standard for truth and morality. ]]]

Im certain that the Lord Jesus did not teach that to the apostles nor does He teach that today to His sheep in His one flock. Youre trying the bible too to say things it doesnt say it says to its readers.

[[[[Also, the Bible is described as alive and active, meaning it continues to speak to people yesterday, today, and tomorrow, guiding, comforting, and convicting, and equipping believers for every good work, shaping character and preparing them to live out their faith effectively. ]]]]

Who says that? Im sure its not JESUS, is He? Youre in to bibliolatry, which is the counterpart of idolatry. Graven images is to idolatry as the bible is to bibliolatry. Worse, youre trying to rob the Lord of His post as the pastor and Teacher of His flock and switch the bible on to His post.

[[[So, the phrase "All scripture is given by inspiration of God" emphasizes that the Bible is not a human invention but a divine revelation. Its Gods chosen method of communicating His will and truth to humanity, Paul being one of his chosen vessels.]]]

It depends on which scriptures youre talking about and no matter how inspired the scriptures are, theyre just testimonies to the reality of Jesus so that anyone who happens to read them may come to Jesus to be saved.

Furthermore, its not the bible as Gods chosen method of communicating His will and truth to humanity but, rather, the real and living Christ Jesus is Gods only means for that matter.

Some of your comments seem to contradict each other. Not sure what you're talking about. I hope you're not one of these people who pick through the Bible only the things they believe are correct. I use the whole Bible, from Genesis 1 to Revelation 22. As far as the scriptures go, they are "ALL" inspired of God, not 95 or 99%, but 100%. I hope you're not one of those who like to pick and choose what makes you feel good; if you are, you're on the wrong path. I use the King James Bible for these discussions. As far as talking to the Lord, I do it all day long. Now, as far as the apostle Paul goes,

Acts 9:15, the Lord said of Paul, For he (Paul) is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

Paul wrote, Romans 11:13, For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles.

Paul wrote, 1 Timothy 2:7, I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and (truth).
1 Timothy 2:8, Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel.

There are clear differences between Paul's Gospel and the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and most of John. Paul's focus concerned the finished work of the cross and the gospel of grace. Never did Paul speak of having to keep Jewish law, or any form of legalism being required; nor did he ever teach the gospel of the kingdom.

Jesus sent the 12 apostles to the Jews, Matthew 10:5-6, The 12 apostles and Jesus spoke repeatedly of the kingdom of God and Christ. But Paul taught primarily to the Gentiles and, to a lesser extent, the Jews. He spoke of the resurrection of the saints and the catching away, or rapture, of the body of Christ. Peter acknowledged that Paul had been given things by the Holy Spirit that the 12 were unaware of, 2 Peter 3:15-16.

Paul's letters were progressive works of learning. His earlier letters were milk, being spoon-fed to baby Christians. But, as the years passed, he revealed mysteries to the Gentile church, secrets hidden in eternity past, but now revealed by the Holy Spirit. Only then did the church begin to mature, growing in knowledge and understanding.

So, what was Pauls gospel? It was a gospel of the grace of God, and by faith alone can we be saved.

[OneJack]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #2]

Some of your comments seem to contradict each other. Not sure what you're talking about. I hope you're not one of these people who pick through the Bible only the things they believe are correct.

What for example do you find contradictory to each other in my post? Were not on the same boat for sure if I come to you that way.

I use the whole Bible, from Genesis 1 to Revelation 22. As far as the scriptures go, they are "ALL" inspired of God, not 95 or 99%, but 100%.

I have read the bible and never did I find the Lord Jesus teach to His apostles and disciples saying all scriptures are 100 % inspired of God, its you who said that, didnt you? Jesus defined the scriptures/bible as the very scriptures that testify of Him, not as the word of God nor authoritative book.

I hope you're not one of those who like to pick and choose what makes you feel good; if you are, you're on the wrong path. I use the King James Bible for these discussions.

If you agree that Jesus and Gods utterances in the bible are more than enough to tell us today to come to the real and living Christ Jesus for our salvation and life sharing moment with Him until the end, therefore I see nothing wrong in choosing only Jesus and Gods utterances in the bible.

As far as talking to the Lord, I do it all day long.

Is that so? But I like to hear that, were not wasted if we devote most of our time sharing to others what weve heard and learned from the real and living Christ Jesus who continuously shepherd and teach us today.

Now, as far as the apostle Paul goes,

Acts 9:15, the Lord said of Paul, For he (Paul) is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

Okay, taking it from Jesus, Pauls job was to bear His name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel. Were there other utterances Jesus did to Paul, other than this?

Paul wrote, Romans 11:13, For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles.

See how Paul deviated from what Jesus told Ananias about him, the Lord didnt say hes the apostle of the Gentiles but, rather, to bear His name to the Gentiles. Jesus didnt tell Paul or Ananias that he (Paul) was the last apostle of the Lord.

Paul wrote, 1 Timothy 2:7, I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and (truth).

This is a claim thats not aligned with the teaching of Jesus in Matt 23:8 & 10 as far as teacher is concerned, and in John chapter 10 as far as shepherd or preacher is concerned. No one among the apostles were ordained [by Jesus] as pastor and teacher, nor were they tasked to preach the scriptures/bible.

1 Timothy 2:8, Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel.

There are clear differences between Paul's Gospel and the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and most of John. Paul's focus concerned the finished work of the cross and the gospel of grace. Never did Paul speak of having to keep Jewish law, or any form of legalism being required; nor did he ever teach the gospel of the kingdom.

You're now stuck in a deep quagmire of white lies, perpetuated by those who oppose Jesus, aiming to lead you away from Him and toward a distorted view of salvation. This misconception, centered on Jesus' finished work on the cross and the gospel of grace, poses a significant risk of idolatry or bibliolatry, whether intentionally or unintentionally promoted.

Jesus sent the 12 apostles to the Jews, Matthew 10:5-6, The 12 apostles and Jesus spoke repeatedly of the kingdom of God and Christ. But Paul taught primarily to the Gentiles and, to a lesser extent, the Jews. He spoke of the resurrection of the saints and the catching away, or rapture, of the body of Christ. Peter acknowledged that Paul had been given things by the Holy Spirit that the 12 were unaware of, 2 Peter 3:15-16.

Are you telling me that the salvation of the Jews is different from your salvation today just because youre not a Jew by birthright?

Whos and wheres your Savior, btw?

Paul's letters were progressive works of learning. His earlier letters were milk, being spoon-fed to baby Christians. But, as the years passed, he revealed mysteries to the Gentile church, secrets hidden in eternity past, but now revealed by the Holy Spirit. Only then did the church begin to mature, growing in knowledge and understanding

Paul is long gone, but the Living Christ Jesus is always with you, as He was with the apostles after the Son of Man was lifted up, just come to and call on Him and Hell surely respond to you to teach you and bring you to the truth. Pauls epistles are testimonies to Jesus, pointing you to Him for salvation. It's not the Bible or Paul's writings that save you, but the real and living Jesus Christ. He's always with you, ready to save you if you come to Him and follow Him.

Paul's gospel emphasized the grace of God and salvation through faith alone, which is different from Jesus. However, since Paul is no longer here and isn't the Savior, where do you think your soul will end up when you're gone?

So, what was Pauls gospel? It was a gospel of the grace of God, and by faith alone can we be saved

Sadly and unluckily, Paul is long gone and He is not the Savior, where do you think your soul will end up when youre gone?

[placebofactor]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #2]

Some of your comments seem to contradict each other. Not sure what you're talking about. I hope you're not one of these people who pick through the Bible only the things they believe are correct.

What for example do you find contradictory to each other in my post? Were not on the same boat for sure if I come to you that way.

I use the whole Bible, from Genesis 1 to Revelation 22. As far as the scriptures go, they are "ALL" inspired of God, not 95 or 99%, but 100%.

I have read the bible and never did I find the Lord Jesus teach to His apostles and disciples saying all scriptures are 100 % inspired of God, its you who said that, didnt you? Jesus defined the scriptures/bible as the very scriptures that testify of Him, not as the word of God nor authoritative book.

I hope you're not one of those who like to pick and choose what makes you feel good; if you are, you're on the wrong path. I use the King James Bible for these discussions.

If you agree that Jesus and Gods utterances in the bible are more than enough to tell us today to come to the real and living Christ Jesus for our salvation and life sharing moment with Him until the end, therefore I see nothing wrong in choosing only Jesus and Gods utterances in the bible.

As far as talking to the Lord, I do it all day long.

Is that so? But I like to hear that, were not wasted if we devote most of our time sharing to others what weve heard and learned from the real and living Christ Jesus who continuously shepherd and teach us today.

Now, as far as the apostle Paul goes,

Acts 9:15, the Lord said of Paul, For he (Paul) is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

Okay, taking it from Jesus, Pauls job was to bear His name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel. Were there other utterances Jesus did to Paul, other than this?

Paul wrote, Romans 11:13, For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles.

See how Paul deviated from what Jesus told Ananias about him, the Lord didnt say hes the apostle of the Gentiles but, rather, to bear His name to the Gentiles. Jesus didnt tell Paul or Ananias that he (Paul) was the last apostle of the Lord.

Paul wrote, 1 Timothy 2:7, I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and (truth).

This is a claim thats not aligned with the teaching of Jesus in Matt 23:8 & 10 as far as teacher is concerned, and in John chapter 10 as far as shepherd or preacher is concerned. No one among the apostles were ordained [by Jesus] as pastor and teacher, nor were they tasked to preach the scriptures/bible.

1 Timothy 2:8, Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel.

There are clear differences between Paul's Gospel and the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and most of John. Paul's focus concerned the finished work of the cross and the gospel of grace. Never did Paul speak of having to keep Jewish law, or any form of legalism being required; nor did he ever teach the gospel of the kingdom.

You're now stuck in a deep quagmire of white lies, perpetuated by those who oppose Jesus, aiming to lead you away from Him and toward a distorted view of salvation. This misconception, centered on Jesus' finished work on the cross and the gospel of grace, poses a significant risk of idolatry or bibliolatry, whether intentionally or unintentionally promoted.

Jesus sent the 12 apostles to the Jews, Matthew 10:5-6, The 12 apostles and Jesus spoke repeatedly of the kingdom of God and Christ. But Paul taught primarily to the Gentiles and, to a lesser extent, the Jews. He spoke of the resurrection of the saints and the catching away, or rapture, of the body of Christ. Peter acknowledged that Paul had been given things by the Holy Spirit that the 12 were unaware of, 2 Peter 3:15-16.

Are you telling me that the salvation of the Jews is different from your salvation today just because youre not a Jew by birthright?

Whos and wheres your Savior, btw?

Paul's letters were progressive works of learning. His earlier letters were milk, being spoon-fed to baby Christians. But, as the years passed, he revealed mysteries to the Gentile church, secrets hidden in eternity past, but now revealed by the Holy Spirit. Only then did the church begin to mature, growing in knowledge and understanding

Paul is long gone, but the Living Christ Jesus is always with you, as He was with the apostles after the Son of Man was lifted up, just come to and call on Him and Hell surely respond to you to teach you and bring you to the truth. Pauls epistles are testimonies to Jesus, pointing you to Him for salvation. It's not the Bible or Paul's writings that save you, but the real and living Jesus Christ. He's always with you, ready to save you if you come to Him and follow Him.

Paul's gospel emphasized the grace of God and salvation through faith alone, which is different from Jesus. However, since Paul is no longer here and isn't the Savior, where do you think your soul will end up when you're gone?

So, what was Pauls gospel? It was a gospel of the grace of God, and by faith alone can we be saved

Sadly and unluckily, Paul is long gone and He is not the Savior, where do you think your soul will end up when youre gone?

Paul may be gone, but his words are still with us. You ask, "Where will I wind up when I die?" You forgot to ask, where will I be if I do not die before the Lord returns to rapture (catch away) his bride? I'll be with the Lord. And Paul teaches, I will have an incorruptible, immortal body, and will be with the Lord Jesus for all eternity. And if I die before he comes, same results, only I'll have to wait a while longer.

[OneJack]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #6]

Paul may be gone, but his words are still with us.

That's just an assumption, given that we have copies of copies of ancient scriptures, which may or may not accurately reflect the original words of Paul or other authors. These scriptures are testimonies to Jesus, not the Word of God.

You ask, "Where will I wind up when I die?" You forgot to ask, where will I be if I do not die before the Lord returns to rapture (catch away) his bride?

Unfortunately, the notion of the Rapture seems to be a misconception of the Second Coming, which Jesus described in Matthew 24. Ultimately, whether dead or alive, we'll witness this event on Resurrection Day, and it will be the Second Coming of the Son of Man.

I'll be with the Lord.

I hope so

And Paul teaches, I will have an incorruptible, immortal body, and will be with the Lord Jesus for all eternity.

The immortal body that Paul was saying refers to our spirits, much like God and angelic beings.

And if I die before he comes, same results, only I'll have to wait a while longe

I hope youll be saved by what you believe.

[JehovahsWitness]

Savior, where do you think your soul will end up when youre gone?

The bible nowhere mentions the words "immortal soul". The notion of an immortal part of a person that survives the death of the body is a pagan notion adopted by those that want to believe that a person's existence does not end when they die.


JEHOVAHS WITNESS

[placebofactor]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #6]

Paul may be gone, but his words are still with us.

That's just an assumption, given that we have copies of copies of ancient scriptures, which may or may not accurately reflect the original words of Paul or other authors. These scriptures are testimonies to Jesus, not the Word of God.

You ask, "Where will I wind up when I die?" You forgot to ask, where will I be if I do not die before the Lord returns to rapture (catch away) his bride?

Unfortunately, the notion of the Rapture seems to be a misconception of the Second Coming, which Jesus described in Matthew 24. Ultimately, whether dead or alive, we'll witness this event on Resurrection Day, and it will be the Second Coming of the Son of Man.

I'll be with the Lord.

I hope so

And Paul teaches, I will have an incorruptible, immortal body, and will be with the Lord Jesus for all eternity.

The immortal body that Paul was saying refers to our spirits, much like God and angelic beings.

And if I die before he comes, same results, only I'll have to wait a while longe

I hope youll be saved by what you believe.

And the dead in Christ will rise first: and shall they forever be with the Lord. I have absolute hope in my position in the Lord. Now you had better ask yourself the same question you ask me.

[OneJack]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #8]

The bible nowhere mentions the words "immortal soul". The notion of an immortal part of a person that survives the death of the body is a pagan notion adopted by those that want to believe that a person's existence does not end when they die.

What are those souls mentioned below, are they not immortal souls?

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.